iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

American beech ?

Started by dad2nine, August 25, 2007, 06:22:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dad2nine

I'm no longer a beech virgin.  Here's a few snap shots of spalted QS American Beech. Smells a lot like beer when sawing it.  :)




Thanks


SCSawyer

What beech I have sawn really warps,twist,bows and bends if sawn thin I  have sawn alot for pallet lumber and leave it laying a couple days in the sun makes it ~~~~~ but then again I have sawn it into cants that did great , good luck.
Silas S. Roberts , Bluff Mtn. Timber

SwampDonkey

They buy it here mostly for railroad ties. We have all kinds of it up here, it can be 50 % of the stand composition on some hardwood ridges. But it suffers bad from beech bark disease. I'm surprised you don't have the disease down there, because only in the far NW reaches of the province has disease free beech where it is colder. I have seen some old growth beech without a blemish on them. Bark still nice and smooth and gray. It's mostly cut here for firewood off woodlots. Burns a little hotter than sugar maple, but not a big difference. Isn't oak hotter than maple?

I know my uncle's woodlot is over taken by beech regen because of his practice of removing the beech and leaving maple overstory to shade out the maple regen.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

RK Ron

 Beech is one of my favorite hardwoods.  The color in the sapwood is mild and pleasing to the eye.  You notice when it's in your hands that it's solid, and close grained - different from the familiar coarseness of the oaks, yet similar w/light ray and fleck.  It's specific gravity is near identical to cherry, and it machines quite well.  Polishes wonderfully (makes you look good to your customer)  The flat sawn grain pattern is cherry like, and you can monkey w/color to mimic cherry.
Now when the hands of time grab hold of beech and it starts to spalt, you'll pause in wonderment at the beauty, complexity, and boldness of the wood.  Each spalted peice is onto itself- a fingerprint if you will.  One log I was cutting revealed a spalted pattern that resembled what easily looked like a "campfire", w/flames shooting up, red mixed w/black etc..  Shortly after that I was commissioned to build a 7'-0" alter w/matching podium for a new hospital.  Made raised panels w/spalted beech to resemble "flames" along the bottom of the altar.  Those with a historical and spiritual knowledge "saw" flames.  The heathen pagans just thought it was pretty wood.  "those who have eyes to see, see"
I'll see if someone can upload or teach me to upload some pics- I'm a big dope in that area...
P.S.-  I've always considered any wood that's hard to behave a precious one. If I'm only getting a percentage from a log that I consider "high risk", I've already weighed out the value and worth vs. the effort/cost and determined what I'm cutting still has value, then cut one more "stick".  These pieces cull themselves in the drying process, and what's left is more rare, unusual, and valuable than wormy chestnut. (to me)
P.P.S.-  Don't be afraid of lumber twist, bow, cup, etc.. Just weigh it down, throw lumber on top of the beech, and stay away from any trees that "spiral"
RKRON

Norm

Go to this link RK and follow Jeff's instructions to learn how to post pictures here.  :)

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=23851.0

treebucker

I've stayed away from beech for the reasons stated here. But as I type this I have the opportunity to harvest my choice from as many free beech as I can fit in this winter's sawing schedule. I might take several trees if I can sell the lumber. I'm wondering if someone has some pricing for green and/or air-dried beech?
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

Dave Shepard

treebucker, if you do get around to sawing out any of that beech, you might want to see if there is any market for turning blanks or blanks for making wooden planes. Some of the planes are as thin as 3/8" or can be 3"x3" square. There is a book on wooden plane making, I plan on getting it next time I get to the bookstore, I am sure it will say what one would need for a blank.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Justin L

If the Beech tends to warp like Sycamore, sticker it every foot and use lots of weight. An experienced kiln operator gave me this advice when I mentioned using Sycamore in my house. I'm going to listen since he runs 750,000BF of kilns. If it's dried quickly, the surface fibers will be stronger and help resist cupping.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

beenthere

Quote from: Justin L on September 02, 2007, 08:24:51 AM
................. If it's dried quickly, the surface fibers will be stronger and help resist cupping.

This last statement makes me wonder just what is really happening...  there is a term used in drying called "case hardening", and I'm wondering if this is an interpretation of that ?? ??? ???
Any thoughts?

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SwampDonkey

Actually, I would suggest honeycombing, but yes, the most common form occurs as a result  of casehardening. The wood on the surface of casehardened wood is softer than the interior wood because it is stretched and the core wood compressed because the surface dries below the fibre saturation point, while the core wood is still above fibre saturation point.

Honeycombing is not a grading defect and isn't often discovered until it's machined where you find internal splitting and checking along the rays. It often occurs as surface checks close and open up in the interior of the piece.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Don P

On a flatsawn piece the difference in radial and tangential shrinkage causes the board to tend to cup toward the barkside. Dry wood is twice as strong as green. If you can dry the surface fibers quickly without overly stressing them into checking then they will help hold the board flat through the rest of drying. What I've heard is that cup is the result of too slow drying. Its the only warp that can be attributed to the kiln operator.

scsmith42

Regarding drying sycamore, earlier this summer I dried about 1000 bd ft of 4/4 quartersawn sycamore in my DH kiln.  Dad2nine had sawn the lumber, and treated the ends of the logs with anchor seal the same day that they were logged.  We got the lumber into the kiln within a couple of weeks of it being logged, and immediately after it was sawn.  Initial MC%'s were in the 60% range going into the kiln.

Per Nyle's recommendation, I followed the same schedule as I use for white oak - basically 3% per day MC % reduction.  Some days the % reduction was 1.5% or so.

The load turned out absolutely fantastic - probably the best drying results that I've ever obtained.  Degrade was less than .5% - primarily where there was a knot.  End checking was just about nonexistant, and no warp, cup, bow, etc to speak of.  The only boards that did not sell were those that were very narrow - 3" or less.  Every board was usable though, and they machined just fine.  We have had no negative response from our customers regarding quality of the finished product.

Sticker placement on my kiln carts is on 16" centers, with the stickers aligned above the cart supports.  I use dried, 1" stickers, planed and machined to 1" on all sides.  The larger stickers slow down my air flow a bit, so I have to run one to two more fans than are required with 3/4" stickers in order to have an air flow through the stacks in the 200 - 300 fpm range.

I do not weight my stacks or strap my kiln stacks - and usually the boards on top turn out just fine.

I cannot speak to the philosophy on quick drying mentioned within this string, but have found that following Nyle's recommendations regarding steady control of the drying process (especially above 35% MC) and getting the lumber from tree to kiln in as little time as possible has yielded excellent results on quartersawn sycamore and oak in my operation. 

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

dad2nine

We stacked about 100 BF of QS Spalted beech on the bottom of one of Scott's (scsmith42) kiln carts yesterday morning under about 500 BF of FS maple. even though it had been sawed and tight stacked (no stickers) about a week I noticed no cupping or wrapping. I like to cover my tight stacks with old tin roofing sheets to keep the sun from beating down on it. I was a little concerned about the beech as I am with any new species, So I sliced a 1/4 thick piece of flat sawn and a 1/4 thick piece of QS and layed them both on top of the tin. The sun will cook them, I like to see what it does when it's dry. In this case I noticed no cupping or wrap and only a little distortion around a knot on the QS piece. The flat sawn piece however looked like a freaking pretzel. I don't think I would flat saw American Beech unless I wanted to waste my time. But I would not be afraid of QS'ing it at all. As a matter of fact I went and picked up the monster beech from my logger buddy yesterday. At about 26" dia, and just right for QS'ing on my LT40. Thankfully I won't have to rip it open with the chainsaw  :). Monster is a relative term, around here 26" dia beech really is a monster...

Just my two cents worth... Thanks

treebucker

Quote from: Dave Shepard on September 01, 2007, 10:33:55 PM
treebucker, if you do get around to sawing out any of that beech, you might want to see if there is any market for turning blanks or blanks for making wooden planes. Some of the planes are as thin as 3/8" or can be 3"x3" square. There is a book on wooden plane making, I plan on getting it next time I get to the bookstore, I am sure it will say what one would need for a blank.
Dave
You've stirred a memory in me that may not be real. Do I remember people making airplane models from beech years ago? Or are you talking about making wood planes?  Let us know what you discover in your reading.

I searched ebay for some prices on American beech. What I got was such a small sampling that it's not worth talking about. Anyone out there regularly deal in American beech?
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

SwampDonkey

Quote from: treebucker on September 02, 2007, 05:52:37 PM

You've stirred a memory in me that may not be real. Do I remember people making airplane models from beech years ago?

Basswood I think. Original WWI planes were made from birch and spruce veneers though. I had an uncle that made tons of airplane models, his brother used to break them up testing them. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dave Shepard

I'm talking about wooden hand planes for woodworking.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Justin L

I'm glad to hear some success stories on the QS Sycamore & Beech. I want to use lots of both when I build a house but there's not much info on either. I'm new to the drying but I took a class so I know just enough to be dangerous!
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

I hope to sell what I have left of a 30" American Beech that I cut about three years
ago.    I cut a fresh log into 2X6 and 2X8 QS.  No warp, bow or cup.
Had some spalt in one log which I had waited to cut.  It was all cut QS 1"+. The customer
bought quite a bit  and is coming back.  Wants to build an entire bedroom out of it.

Bringing a friend,too,  to buy whatever strikes his fancy.  (They are travelling 2.5 hrs. to get to
this wood!)  Why?   Because it's different, and, of course, God made it beautiful.

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Justin L

...and where else can they get it? ;)
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

Justin L

Thanks for the article swampdonkey!
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

dad2nine

Quartered up some more beech, I really like the way the water runs out of the log just ahead of the saw blade just like sycamore does - no blade lube required  ;D

Part_Timer

Justin

I'm heading down to Faron's on Sunday with a load of qsawn sycamore to be turned into T&G flooring for the kids new rooms.  I'm also going to use it for the trim and maybe even the doors.  Faron and I don't see why it won't work but we could be wrong ;) who knows.
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

Dave Shepard

Would beech work for a workbench top? I know it has good properties for making tools, but I don't know how it would hold up to being used as a work surface.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Don P

I would bet every bit as well as hard maple. I had a few 8/4 beech planks that I planed smooth and used under some big timbers as I fitted them recently. They took a nice burnish like maple would, it made it easy to move the timbers around and they were plenty stout enough.
We have a few dutch cookie molds, most are carved from european beech, they'll last for several more generations yet.

Thank You Sponsors!