American beech ?

[dad2nine]

Talked to one of my logger buddies yesterday, He called me on his cell phone from the woods. "Hey jeff, I'm sitting here in the sheer, starring at a monster American beech, I want you to have this tree, you want it?" What was I supposed to say no? Seeing I'm a beech virgin, I figured I would ask the experts. What's the best way to saw beech and does it benefit in appearance being QS (like oak and sycamore ray flake). I'm kinda looking forward to sawing a monster American Beech... I just hope it's not one of this 5' diameter logs again that I have to bust out the chainsaw for. Any advise/pictures would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[SwampDonkey]

It could be interesting quarter sawn. It has two types of rays. Broad ones like oak and narrow. It is in the oak family non-the-less. I wouldn't quarter it all though, looks nice flat sawn and can be steam bent for chair arms and rockers. It almost looks like maple to me until you look close and notice the wider spaced, short black lines (pores) on the flat sawn surface and broader rays on the end grain. ;D

[Engineer]

I've never sawn beech, but I do have a nice stockpile of it that I bought from someone.  It's best quartersawn.  I am using what I have for butcherblock counters for my kitchen and some shelving.  

Not much of what I have is straight, BTW.  Warped and twisted pretty bad.

[Don P]

I haven't sawn much but it is active stuff while drying, burns good though. I've used it for cabinets and have seen it in some nice looking flooring. It was considered a good tool wood that self polishes for things like wooden block and molding planes, loom parts, etc..

[WDH]

Quarter sawing it would reveal the ray fleck and it would definitely be more stable.  I am awaiting some pics ;D.

[Dave Shepard]

Don P, it was also used for the assorted cogs and workings of water powered mills for the same reason. I would love to get ahold of some nice beech to make some hand planes. What little beech I have sawn moved a lot. It rippled like a potato chip. :(


Dave

[Don P]

That's cool, didn't know that  8)
grandad's little maul, the one I knew as the ice crusher, for making homemade ice cream, was made of beech. That was perhaps my all time favorite hammer  ;D

The ray ends on flat sawn were pointed out to me as "chicken scratches" for a quick ID in the woodshop. I've always liked the look of beech, it does seem stable once dried, just seems to be one of those dense ones that moves alot on the way.

There's a couple of beeches in my future, holler if you want Dave, I'd be happy to throw some blocks up in a corner and see what happens.

[Riles]

Beech is notorious for being hollow, courtesy of real thin bark and hunters making coon habitat. Let us know how it comes out.

[dad2nine]

Lots of good information - I was thinking about QS @ 4/4, but it sounds like it moves a lot while drying so if I wanted a 3/4 finished board would 5/4 green be better? Scott Smith will be doing the kiln drying, he hooks wire up to some of the boards, I think there is a plunger on the other end of those wires. The way I figure it if he gets fed up with trying to dry the wood I saw, he simply pushes down the plunger and BAM problem solved. ;D Seriously what's your thoughts on the 5/4 for 3/4 finished product or should I think of something else?

Thanks

[Engineer]

The beech I have was sawn a full 1-1/8, and I'm having a hard time getting pieces longer than four feet out of it at 3/4" finished thickness.  Worst problem seems to be twist.  I have a few good-sized beech trees around, and I've noticed that many of them appear to have a spiral grain pattern - in other words, the tree appears to twist as it grows.  Almost looks like a corkscrew in the bark.  I culled through about 30 pieces of 6 to 12" wide by 12' long stock and got ONE piece for a long shelf in the kitchen that was reasonably flat enough to use.  The shelf is 6-1/2" wide by 11'-4" long.  I'm not gonna saw any beech around here until I figure out how to cut it and dry it so that movement is minimized.

[metalspinner]

Spalted beech is stunningly beautiful.  If that tree is hollow, there is a good chance it has begun spalting.  I tried spalting a full log a couple years back with mixed results.

[scsmith42]

Jeff - how do you keep figuring out my secrets?   :D

I'll query Don and Tripp Lewis to see if they have any advice re drying.

Scott

[lmbeachy]

I have plenty of Beech in my woods, The largest, my brother-in- law cut for fire wood. It was 60 inches acrss the stump, but it turned out to be hollow. Have some that have grain that is all twisted and then some that I cut are straight grain. I cut most of it for fire wood, it burns real good in a wood stove. I have some old recycled 2 x's in my barn. Came from the house that my grandfather built in 1916 or therabouts. I have used some for projects here in the house, it is hard as nails and has beautiful color. Will bring my camera home and try to post some pic.

[Kelvin]

Howdy,
I just quarter sawed some beech this last week. I noticed its real hard to get the figure to be exposed.  You have to be dead on 90 degrees to get it to show.  By the time you are over to 85 degrees not much of anything so it requires a lot of cant turning.  Where as an oak will show some figure for quite awhile before disappearing, though i try to keep that between 85-90 degrees to the surface as well as that makes the biggest flecks.  Just make sure you keep a lot of weight on your stacks while air drying and in the kilns.
Good luck.  I'd quarter saw and saw at 1 1 /8" as proper weight should keep its flat. 
KP

[getoverit]

I'm interested in buying some QS 8" wide beech if anyone wants to sell some. I dont need a lot, but a few boards would be nice to have.

[dad2nine]

Howdy,
I just quarter sawed some beech this last week. I noticed its real hard to get the figure to be exposed.  You have to be dead on 90 degrees to get it to show.  By the time you are over to 85 degrees not much of anything so it requires a lot of cant turning.  Where as an oak will show some figure for quite awhile before disappearing, though i try to keep that between 85-90 degrees to the surface as well as that makes the biggest flecks.  Just make sure you keep a lot of weight on your stacks while air drying and in the kilns.
Good luck.  I'd quarter saw and saw at 1 1 /8" as proper weight should keep its flat. 
KP

Kelvin, Thanks for the tips, sounds like this could be interesting. Is beech as tight as sycamore for showing off flake? We found a beech but log in the surprise pile out at the log yard. It's good and spalted, I'm going to "practice" on that one while I'm waiting for the other beech to be delivered. I'll try and snap a few pics if the log produces any eye candy  ;)

[Part_Timer]

I sawed up 3 beech logs last weekend.  THe butt log was great the next one up was so so and the third wanted to trist so bad that my 6x6 came out as a 6x3 1/2.  I cut that one into fire wood.  I'm going to try for another 6x6 out of the last one.  The only thing I noted was that the q sawn boards are wanting to crack right down the growth lines?? ?? They are 8 feet long an 1 1/8 so we'll have to see how it all works out.  GOI I have your beech on the bottom of the pile drying as we speak. ;) I'll be sending the ash one day this week.

[scsmith42]

Jeff, I don't normally weigh down the boards on my kiln carts, but I'll plan on putting your beech boards on the bottom of the kiln cart and about 1000 bd ft of other boards stickered on top of them - that ought to serve the same purpose.

Scott

[Joel Eisner]

I had a good sized one that we took out at our old house in a neighborhood.  We were unable to get the mill to it so it became firewood.  I did split some of the pieces to make mallets for cutting my frame.  I used one turned mallet for the entire frame and it was pretty durable.

[dad2nine]

Jeff, I don't normally weigh down the boards on my kiln carts, but I'll plan on putting your beech boards on the bottom of the kiln cart and about 1000 bd ft of other boards stickered on top of them - that ought to serve the same purpose.

Scott

Yeah I'm sure we'll figure something out, stacking on the bottom of the kiln cart, sounds like a good practical approach. If not I could always bring a few sections of rail road Iron ;D. I'm still wondering if I shouldn't set the saw @ 5/4 instead of 4/4 for a 3/4 S2S board. I would hate to have the boards get to thin because it like to do all kinds of weird things in the kiln. Thinking in terms of quality - I know if I saw it at 5/4 I'll produce less boards, but maybe this is one of those species I need to bit the bullet on and sell it as 4/4 even though I sawed it @ 5/4. I'm still thinking better to be safe than saw up a pile of junk.

Thanks

[Greg]

I've got some pre-civil war beech beams, more than I can ever use for my TF projects, if anyone is interested I can cut some up into small chunks for your resaw to make tools with.

Beautiful wood.

I'm pretty sure after 150 years, its dry/done twisting ;-)

If interested, send me a PM.

Greg

[lmbeachy]

Following are some pics of the beech wood that I used for a knick knack selve. This wood came from the house my grand dad built in 1916.

[SwampDonkey]

I saw some picture of QS beech on the net the other day and it didn't look too dramatic. But, one can't always rely on stuff they see on the net. Some one else could post a piece with a lot more figure.


Imbeachy, you can use the img tags to present the photos in the post instead of a link.

Code Select Expand

[img]https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13416/Beech003.jpg[/img]

[Norm]

Here's a pic of q-sawn beech I've shown before of a drawer that Brian Bailey made for me.



I'd love to have some logs of it but it's pretty rare in our area.

[Part_Timer]

We have lots of it around here but I don't see many people cutting it.

[dad2nine]

I'm no longer a beech virgin.  Here's a few snap shots of spalted QS American Beech. Smells a lot like beer when sawing it. 




Thanks

[SCSawyer]

What beech I have sawn really warps,twist,bows and bends if sawn thin I  have sawn alot for pallet lumber and leave it laying a couple days in the sun makes it ~~~~~ but then again I have sawn it into cants that did great , good luck.

[SwampDonkey]

They buy it here mostly for railroad ties. We have all kinds of it up here, it can be 50 % of the stand composition on some hardwood ridges. But it suffers bad from beech bark disease. I'm surprised you don't have the disease down there, because only in the far NW reaches of the province has disease free beech where it is colder. I have seen some old growth beech without a blemish on them. Bark still nice and smooth and gray. It's mostly cut here for firewood off woodlots. Burns a little hotter than sugar maple, but not a big difference. Isn't oak hotter than maple?

I know my uncle's woodlot is over taken by beech regen because of his practice of removing the beech and leaving maple overstory to shade out the maple regen.

[RK Ron]

 Beech is one of my favorite hardwoods.  The color in the sapwood is mild and pleasing to the eye.  You notice when it's in your hands that it's solid, and close grained - different from the familiar coarseness of the oaks, yet similar w/light ray and fleck.  It's specific gravity is near identical to cherry, and it machines quite well.  Polishes wonderfully (makes you look good to your customer)  The flat sawn grain pattern is cherry like, and you can monkey w/color to mimic cherry.
Now when the hands of time grab hold of beech and it starts to spalt, you'll pause in wonderment at the beauty, complexity, and boldness of the wood.  Each spalted peice is onto itself- a fingerprint if you will.  One log I was cutting revealed a spalted pattern that resembled what easily looked like a "campfire", w/flames shooting up, red mixed w/black etc..  Shortly after that I was commissioned to build a 7'-0" alter w/matching podium for a new hospital.  Made raised panels w/spalted beech to resemble "flames" along the bottom of the altar.  Those with a historical and spiritual knowledge "saw" flames.  The heathen pagans just thought it was pretty wood.  "those who have eyes to see, see"
I'll see if someone can upload or teach me to upload some pics- I'm a big dope in that area...
P.S.-  I've always considered any wood that's hard to behave a precious one. If I'm only getting a percentage from a log that I consider "high risk", I've already weighed out the value and worth vs. the effort/cost and determined what I'm cutting still has value, then cut one more "stick".  These pieces cull themselves in the drying process, and what's left is more rare, unusual, and valuable than wormy chestnut. (to me)
P.P.S.-  Don't be afraid of lumber twist, bow, cup, etc.. Just weigh it down, throw lumber on top of the beech, and stay away from any trees that "spiral"
RKRON

[Norm]

Go to this link RK and follow Jeff's instructions to learn how to post pictures here. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=23851.0

[treebucker]

I've stayed away from beech for the reasons stated here. But as I type this I have the opportunity to harvest my choice from as many free beech as I can fit in this winter's sawing schedule. I might take several trees if I can sell the lumber. I'm wondering if someone has some pricing for green and/or air-dried beech?

[Dave Shepard]

treebucker, if you do get around to sawing out any of that beech, you might want to see if there is any market for turning blanks or blanks for making wooden planes. Some of the planes are as thin as 3/8" or can be 3"x3" square. There is a book on wooden plane making, I plan on getting it next time I get to the bookstore, I am sure it will say what one would need for a blank.


Dave

[Justin L]

If the Beech tends to warp like Sycamore, sticker it every foot and use lots of weight. An experienced kiln operator gave me this advice when I mentioned using Sycamore in my house. I'm going to listen since he runs 750,000BF of kilns. If it's dried quickly, the surface fibers will be stronger and help resist cupping.

[beenthere]

................. If it's dried quickly, the surface fibers will be stronger and help resist cupping.

This last statement makes me wonder just what is really happening...  there is a term used in drying called "case hardening", and I'm wondering if this is an interpretation of that ?? ??? ???
Any thoughts?

[SwampDonkey]

Actually, I would suggest honeycombing, but yes, the most common form occurs as a result  of casehardening. The wood on the surface of casehardened wood is softer than the interior wood because it is stretched and the core wood compressed because the surface dries below the fibre saturation point, while the core wood is still above fibre saturation point.

Honeycombing is not a grading defect and isn't often discovered until it's machined where you find internal splitting and checking along the rays. It often occurs as surface checks close and open up in the interior of the piece.

[Don P]

On a flatsawn piece the difference in radial and tangential shrinkage causes the board to tend to cup toward the barkside. Dry wood is twice as strong as green. If you can dry the surface fibers quickly without overly stressing them into checking then they will help hold the board flat through the rest of drying. What I've heard is that cup is the result of too slow drying. Its the only warp that can be attributed to the kiln operator.

[scsmith42]

Regarding drying sycamore, earlier this summer I dried about 1000 bd ft of 4/4 quartersawn sycamore in my DH kiln.  Dad2nine had sawn the lumber, and treated the ends of the logs with anchor seal the same day that they were logged.  We got the lumber into the kiln within a couple of weeks of it being logged, and immediately after it was sawn.  Initial MC%'s were in the 60% range going into the kiln.

Per Nyle's recommendation, I followed the same schedule as I use for white oak - basically 3% per day MC % reduction.  Some days the % reduction was 1.5% or so.

The load turned out absolutely fantastic - probably the best drying results that I've ever obtained.  Degrade was less than .5% - primarily where there was a knot.  End checking was just about nonexistant, and no warp, cup, bow, etc to speak of.  The only boards that did not sell were those that were very narrow - 3" or less.  Every board was usable though, and they machined just fine.  We have had no negative response from our customers regarding quality of the finished product.

Sticker placement on my kiln carts is on 16" centers, with the stickers aligned above the cart supports.  I use dried, 1" stickers, planed and machined to 1" on all sides.  The larger stickers slow down my air flow a bit, so I have to run one to two more fans than are required with 3/4" stickers in order to have an air flow through the stacks in the 200 - 300 fpm range.

I do not weight my stacks or strap my kiln stacks - and usually the boards on top turn out just fine.

I cannot speak to the philosophy on quick drying mentioned within this string, but have found that following Nyle's recommendations regarding steady control of the drying process (especially above 35% MC) and getting the lumber from tree to kiln in as little time as possible has yielded excellent results on quartersawn sycamore and oak in my operation. 

Scott

[dad2nine]

We stacked about 100 BF of QS Spalted beech on the bottom of one of Scott's (scsmith42) kiln carts yesterday morning under about 500 BF of FS maple. even though it had been sawed and tight stacked (no stickers) about a week I noticed no cupping or wrapping. I like to cover my tight stacks with old tin roofing sheets to keep the sun from beating down on it. I was a little concerned about the beech as I am with any new species, So I sliced a 1/4 thick piece of flat sawn and a 1/4 thick piece of QS and layed them both on top of the tin. The sun will cook them, I like to see what it does when it's dry. In this case I noticed no cupping or wrap and only a little distortion around a knot on the QS piece. The flat sawn piece however looked like a freaking pretzel. I don't think I would flat saw American Beech unless I wanted to waste my time. But I would not be afraid of QS'ing it at all. As a matter of fact I went and picked up the monster beech from my logger buddy yesterday. At about 26" dia, and just right for QS'ing on my LT40. Thankfully I won't have to rip it open with the chainsaw  . Monster is a relative term, around here 26" dia beech really is a monster...

Just my two cents worth... Thanks

[treebucker]

treebucker, if you do get around to sawing out any of that beech, you might want to see if there is any market for turning blanks or blanks for making wooden planes. Some of the planes are as thin as 3/8" or can be 3"x3" square. There is a book on wooden plane making, I plan on getting it next time I get to the bookstore, I am sure it will say what one would need for a blank.
Dave

You've stirred a memory in me that may not be real. Do I remember people making airplane models from beech years ago? Or are you talking about making wood planes?  Let us know what you discover in your reading.

I searched ebay for some prices on American beech. What I got was such a small sampling that it's not worth talking about. Anyone out there regularly deal in American beech?

[SwampDonkey]

You've stirred a memory in me that may not be real. Do I remember people making airplane models from beech years ago?

Basswood I think. Original WWI planes were made from birch and spruce veneers though. I had an uncle that made tons of airplane models, his brother used to break them up testing them. :D :D

[Dave Shepard]

I'm talking about wooden hand planes for woodworking.


Dave

[Justin L]

I'm glad to hear some success stories on the QS Sycamore & Beech. I want to use lots of both when I build a house but there's not much info on either. I'm new to the drying but I took a class so I know just enough to be dangerous!

[SwampDonkey]

Article from USFS from the 70's

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I hope to sell what I have left of a 30" American Beech that I cut about three years
ago.    I cut a fresh log into 2X6 and 2X8 QS.  No warp, bow or cup.
Had some spalt in one log which I had waited to cut.  It was all cut QS 1"+. The customer
bought quite a bit  and is coming back.  Wants to build an entire bedroom out of it.

Bringing a friend,too,  to buy whatever strikes his fancy.  (They are travelling 2.5 hrs. to get to
this wood!)  Why?   Because it's different, and, of course, God made it beautiful.

Phil L.

[Justin L]

...and where else can they get it? ;)

[Justin L]

Thanks for the article swampdonkey!

[dad2nine]

Quartered up some more beech, I really like the way the water runs out of the log just ahead of the saw blade just like sycamore does - no blade lube required  ;D

[Part_Timer]

Justin

I'm heading down to Faron's on Sunday with a load of qsawn sycamore to be turned into T&G flooring for the kids new rooms.  I'm also going to use it for the trim and maybe even the doors.  Faron and I don't see why it won't work but we could be wrong ;) who knows.

[Dave Shepard]

Would beech work for a workbench top? I know it has good properties for making tools, but I don't know how it would hold up to being used as a work surface.


Dave

[Don P]

I would bet every bit as well as hard maple. I had a few 8/4 beech planks that I planed smooth and used under some big timbers as I fitted them recently. They took a nice burnish like maple would, it made it easy to move the timbers around and they were plenty stout enough.
We have a few dutch cookie molds, most are carved from european beech, they'll last for several more generations yet.