sticker stain in white oak, ash and sycamore, where am i going wrong?

Kelvin · August 08, 2007, 08:16:33 PM

Howdy all!
Hey i've been fighting sticker stain and thought once i had kiln dried stickers nicely milled that would solve my problem, but no, i still am running into too much shadow from the stickers after planing, especially my high value figured white oak! I air dry here in central michigan for a few months to 6 months than move into my nyle kiln to finish off at 120 degrees, for about 7 days or so to 6-7%. Where is my biggest problem with sticker stain? begining? middle or end? We use 7/8" stickers from planed lumber off cuts, too wide? What do you think? Thanks for the help, as i hate seeing good lumber wrecked this way.
Kelvin

scsmith42 · August 08, 2007, 10:16:56 PM

Kelvin, I think that your problem is that the moisture gets trapped inbetween the sticker and your lumber while it's air drying, and that's whats causing the problem.

Two things to try - cut/mill some slots in your stickers so that there is a reduced contact area.

OR - try using PVC pipe and keeping your stacks low.

Scott

dhutch · August 09, 2007, 11:26:10 AM

Just wondering, has anyone tried treating their stickers with End-Seal? I would think the waxy coating would prevent the moisture from wicking from the green lumber into the stickers.

Don_Lewis · August 09, 2007, 06:11:01 PM

I think you would do better drying from green.

Breeze Dry stickers would help but the problem is most likely inadequate air flow. Is the stain under the sticker or on each side?

Kelvin · August 09, 2007, 07:14:43 PM

Don,
My belief was that the stain was under the sticker. Would machining the stickers into little "x's" be helpful? I also have access to a whole bunch of 1" pvd pipe, would cutting this in 1/2 be a better sticker? Thanks for any help,
Kelvin

scsmith42 · August 09, 2007, 08:02:42 PM

Kelvin - I'd try them both and see what works best.

I've dried a pretty good bit of oak, and hands down I always have the best quality if I'm drying green wood. It doesn't really take that much longer, and the degrade is a fraction of what the air dried wood has.

Scott

Kansas · August 10, 2007, 07:56:04 PM

Kelvin,
What species are you using for sticks? I dont know if it makes a difference, but we have always used the lightest color available wood, either basswood or cottonwood. We also use unplaned, although im not sure that would make much difference. Only problem we run into is maple or basswood, and we have some durasticks to use for those. We also air dry before we kiln, mainly because we have such a backlog to dry.

Part_Timer · August 10, 2007, 09:14:33 PM

Kelven

When I make my stacks to air day I use green stickers cut from the logs we were milling so my stickers are 4/4 like the lumber. I stack about 5' tall and 3' wide. When I'm finishing off my stack I use 4" tall pieces to seperate the top of the stack from the tin roof. Then I cover the whole thing with a cheap blue tarp that reaches just to the bottom of the stack but not under the cinderblocks and 1x6's that make up the foundation.

I keep the tarp down during the day. Those cheap blue tarps let in some air but slow it down during the heat of the day. Then in the evening I pull the tarps up and let the cool night air blow through the stack.

I've dried oak and sycamore in this way and haven't had to much trouble with sticker stain. maple and ash I set in the kiln and just turn the fan on for 4 or 5 days then start the kiln. This works well also.

Just my .02 good luck

David Freed · October 21, 2007, 09:05:27 PM

I was having the same trouble and switched to fluted sticks. That stopped most of it. I make my own sticks on my Logosol 4-head moulder. I have a diagram somewhere but I can't find it. David

Timburr · October 22, 2007, 03:29:55 PM

A method common in England is to endstack for a couple of weeks or so. Woods, such as sycamore (a maple)that are suseptable to sticker stain are stood on end under cover. They do not see a sticker untill they have a 'dry skin'. Yes, it's more work, but less degrade.

jim king · October 22, 2007, 04:02:26 PM

If your stickers are not dried you will probably get sticker stain. Fluted stickers are great if you can make them. Here is a good link.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Causes_and_cures_for_sticker_stain.html

Kelvin · October 22, 2007, 07:36:09 PM

Thanks guys. I think i'll make some stickers and run them through the power feed on the table saw with a dado head and make my own flutted sticks. We'll try these on my new bunch of maple.
KP

David Freed · October 22, 2007, 08:37:58 PM

I found the drawing. I ordered custom made knives for my Logosol to make sticks that look like this. Very small points of contact and allows plenty of air through the stick. David

kevin jones · January 22, 2012, 11:03:05 PM

Quote from: Kelvin on October 22, 2007, 07:36:09 PM
Thanks guys. I think i'll make some stickers and run them through the power feed on the table saw with a dado head and make my own flutted sticks. We'll try these on my new bunch of maple.
KP

i know this is an old thread but Kelvin, did making the flutted sticks work for you?

PC-Urban-Sawyer · January 23, 2012, 12:43:30 AM

Kevin,

Looking at his profile, Kelvin hasn't been active here since March of last year...

Hope he's OK...

Anybody know anything pertinant (sp)?

Herb

SwampDonkey · January 23, 2012, 05:46:04 AM

People come and go from the forum. Often life changes gears and they have other interests. ;)

PC-Urban-Sawyer · January 23, 2012, 12:50:49 PM

I understand that SD. On the other hand, Kelvin was a moderately active member for at least six years... I know he was always struggling to find ways to make his operation more profitable... Perhaps he changed things and moved on...

Just wondering.

Herb

thecfarm · January 23, 2012, 03:03:51 PM

His website was still there.

Jeff · January 23, 2012, 03:38:50 PM

Kelvin will not be coming back. He lost his welcome sometime ago. I'll not have anyone "say" the things to me he said to me in a couple of messages and still let him use this site. He made it clear to me with his actions pertaining to me why he has so much trouble in the rest of his world.

Thats all I'll say on the subject, and thats the end of discussion on "Kelvin"

kevin jones · January 26, 2012, 10:01:06 AM

has anyone else tried to make fluted stickers to reduce or eliminate sticker stain in those ease to stain woods? they would have to be made out of hard woods. i've had a problem with maple, sometimes its shallow enough to plain out, other times, lol, no. i usually don't stack more that 8' tall.

Larry · January 26, 2012, 05:59:48 PM

Yes, and they do work.

Norm · January 27, 2012, 07:39:32 AM

Did you run those on your shaper Larry?

Larry · January 27, 2012, 07:48:13 AM

Yes, I did. Those pictured are oak but most I have made are cottonwood.

Al_Smith · January 27, 2012, 07:02:31 PM

I go around to the lumber yards and get dunnage boards .These are the spacers they use to ship bundles of 2 by 4's etc .Freebies because they toss them out any ways .Then I rip them to size on my table saw and use these for stickers .

Might sound thin to some but 3/4" by 3/4" has worked perfectly for me and being kiln dried pine or PNW fir I have no problem with staining .The dunnage is 4 feet long so they work perfectly .