Criteria for prescribed burn?

[ibseeker]

Is there a criteria used when calling for a prescribed burn?
I will have quite a bit of slash when the loggers finish in the next week or two and will need to burn it sometime. The State Forester has said that they will do prescribed burns and it's not too expensive, so I'm wondering what are the advantages to using them? That is, other than having a professional on site and probably more equipment readily available if needed. These are big advantages and would definitely make me feel more comfortable..but is it necessary?

Would it be better to let this slash sit all winter and burn in the spring?
Wait another 18 months and burn it then?
Don't burn at all and just plant right in the slash?

I'm in no hurry to get this burned, at least I don't think I need to be in a hurry. Should I be?



The plan at this time, which is still very fluid is to let the forest sit for at least 18 months before planting.

[Texas Ranger]

My only rule, other than what the weather does, is let it sit long enough for the fine fuels to fall from the tops.

What was cut?  Is the planting already scheduled and paid for?  What kind of site prep was recommended?

In short, go with what the forester says.

[ibseeker]

I'm more or less doing this on my own. I've not had any success using a consulting forester. The timber on the 20 acres doesn't make it profitable enough. I've gotten a bit of advice from the State Forester but mostly am using this forum to guide my plans.
The loggers haven't started yet, at least I don't think so. They will remove all the SYP and hemlock and will push the slash into large piles.
I don't have any firm plans on the planting yet but will wait for a while and then do some weed control, hack and squirt prior to planting. I will plant a combination of pines, mostly white and pitch pine and a small amount of hardwoods.
No plantings scheduled or paid for yet. Site prep will be to eliminate as much unwanted weeds, such as vines and regenerated SYP as possible. I'll then plant with seedlings. 

[Texas Ranger]

I meant go with the state forester, for them to burn they have the time, weather, insurance and equipment to burn.  Other than that, burn when the needles fall off the tops, and in cold weather.  Should not take them long, and think liability.

[Riles]

Is this a question about the conditions for conducting the burn or the reasons for burning?

Lots of reasons for burning; site prep, fuel reduction, wildlife improvement, competition reduction...

[ibseeker]

It's both and I like what the Texas Ranger said about using the State Forester. It makes a lot of sense especially the equipment and liability.

I'm still wondering about when to burn and some of the reasons that you stated: site prep and competition reduction.

Riles; thanks for pointing out the confusion....I can see that I mixed up the goals. Burning the slash pile is different than burning for site prep and competition reduction.
I think burning the slash pile won't be too difficult, just clear a good area around it and wait for the right conditions.

However, burning for site prep and to reduce competition is another issue.
Should I wait until right before planting or is some time required between the burn and planting?
There are some trees that I don't want to damage or destroy, dogwood, cedars, persimmon, poplar, oak, hickory.
Would it be better overall to just stick with the hack and squirt? 

[WDH]

Unless you use chemicals for site prep (which I don't believe that you are), then I would not burn prior to planting to avoid damaging the stuff you want to leave.  Burn the piles of slash about a day after a rain and when the wind is down in the winter. 

You need to take some pics for us and learn how to post them on the Forum. 

[Tillaway]

Pile burning is a DIY, just be sure you have the permits might need.  Contact your local State Forestry Rep to make sure you are in compliance.  Cover a spot on the piles with plastic as they are made.  Burn during the beginning of the wet season so the pile are less apt to spot.  The plastic greatly extends your time into the wet season to burn.

A broadcast burn for site prep is a different animal and is not a DIY thing.  The fuels and soil moisture have to be just right and it takes a large crew since the best times to burn tend to be at a time when the fire can jump lines and slop over easily.  Liability is high as well, if your fire crosses onto someone else's land then you could be liable for all suppression costs as well as damages.

[ibseeker]

Just got word this afternoon from my FIL that the loggers have cut a road in and cut about 4 acres of pines and poplar. I should be getting some pictures from him this week. I'll learn how to get them posted. Up until now, all the pictures that I've taken haven't been very informative. It just looks like a wall of trees. His pictures should have a skidder and delimber in them and a bit more distance and that will help with perspective.

I believe that the site prep will require some chemical treatment. Is hack and squirt the technique to use?
I'll have to ask the State Forestry Rep more about a broadcast burn, but it doesn't sound like something that will work for me. She's willing to come out and look things over for me and offer advice.

I'm sure this is old hat to most of you but getting the loggers started and finally getting a road and access has me fired up. I'll be curious to see what the forest looks like when they are done. I expect it will look pretty rough.

[WDH]

I believe that the site prep will require some chemical treatment. Is hack and squirt the technique to use?

No.  Hack and squirt is used as a timber stand improvement treatment where you select out the undesirable trees one at a time so the desirable ones can grow.  A site prep treatment is broadcast over the site and essentially kills everything. 

[ibseeker]

Ok, that clears that up. I was confused about the use of hack and squirt. Then again, the more I think about this the more I realize that I'm in over my head with understanding it well enough to make good decisions. I think that I need to try and find a Consulting Forester who will work with me for a day or two and get a better plan laid out.
There are so many different aspects of this and most of them have long term consequences. I could be paying for bad decisions for a long time.

Is this something a Consulting Forester would be willing to do?

[Texas Ranger]

You bet!!  Send me a plane ticket, I'll be around shortly.  All that aside, yeah, that's what we do, you can start by having your state agency  look at the site and make some basics.  A consultant will be able to fill in the details.  Unfortunately, the forester should have looked before the harvest started.  That would have allowed for a consecutively development plan that would have the alternatives stated.  Would have answered a lot of your questions, but, starting now will still be helpful.

[ibseeker]

I didn't have much success when I was trying to get a Consulting Forester to take on the timber contract but I didn't think at that time to use them for purely consulting purposes. I'll have to get back to work on finding a local CF to work with. I should have put this together sooner. Everything I was reading about developing plans included suggestions to involve a CF. I was stuck on the idea of only using them for a timber contract. Live and learn.

Anyone know a Consulting Forester around the Maryville, TN area who might be interested?

[Phorester]

I've done hundreds of site prep burns in Virginia.  I put the State in diliberately, because what I'm going to say might be different in your neck of the woods.

I like to burn in the same season as the cut if at all possible, then plant the very next spring.  In fact I did a night burn this past spring to get a tract ready for planting the next week. That was cutting the burn too close, but the pulpwood cutters didn't finish until December.  If we couldn't have got it burned for planting this spring, we would have had to burn it this summer and plant next spring, which would have meant that we would have missed one whole growing season for the new trees. 

If you get it cut this summer, try to burn this fall. All you will get if you wait 18 months is a poor burn because the fuel will have rotted away, lots of hardwood brush regeneration that will overtop the pine seedlings, and a missed growing season.

If it's a hardwood clearcut, I wait until the leaves have cured, but before they fall off the tops.  You get a much better burn with the fine fuel of the dry leaves on the tops than if they are not there.

[ibseeker]

Here's the loggers at work. Can anyone tell me what this machine is called? It's a delimber and loader....I'm guessing.

[WDH]

It is a knuckleboom loader with a pull-through CTR de-limber (just like you said!).

[Ron Scott]

Forest Service Releases Guide to Prescribed Fire in Southern Ecosystems

US Forest Service (September 23) - Introduction to Prescribed Fire in Southern Ecosystems, a revised guide developed by US Forest Service Southern Research Station (SRS), is designed to help resource managers plan and execute prescribed burns in southern forests and grasslands.

The E- Forester