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30' Poplar 3"by12"

Started by fencerowphil (Phil L.), August 01, 2007, 09:57:44 PM

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fencerowphil (Phil L.)

I bought my Peterson intentionally to handle "big and weird wood."
Some of you may recall that phrase from some of my very first posts.
I bought my mill with 52' feet of track which allows for 46' beams, etc.

A customer is wanting me to cut some 30' framing material out of Poplar.
He is thinking at least 3" thick.  His logs are 60 ft. and longer, so it is
likely that 30' butt cuts will do the trick.

Points I have considered are:
            1.   When lifting, a spanner set up will be needed, so as not
                  to break the green lumber.   A FEL, etc. will need to be
                  rigged for this.
            2.   There won't be any by-hand moving of this stuff!
                   Will probably slide the boards off the log and let two or
                   three collect on the four bunks to be lifted in a group
                   to be stacked directly on a drying foundation near
                   the future construction project.
            3.   Everything will take longer than usual, so it will have to
                   be by the hour.
            4.   Tell the customer all this in both color and black and white
                   so that he can be ready to roll when the sawing starts.

Any other thoughts jump out at you about this situation?

            Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Bibbyman

Yea,  grab one of those Stihl chainsaws and wack that log up into three 10' logs.  ::)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

scsmith42

Phil, you and I both think alike - I have 66' of track with my WPF.

One thing to consider is to have a 20' "spreader bar" suspended from a FEL, and after you complete the cut use prybars to slide the beam out onto the bunks and then immediately pick it up with the spreader bar.  For extremely long beams (40' and up), you may need two spreader bars hanging under a third one, in order to distribute your picking points wide enough.

If you have the space, consider having your customer park a long trailer near your milling site so that when you pick the beams off of your bunks you can immediately place them on the trailer - thus limiting your handling. 

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Warren

Phil,

Scott beat me to it.  If the wood will need to be hauled, see if you could load directly from the mill onto the customer's trailer to reduce handling.  If you are milling right on the building site, it might be cheaper for the owner to hire 2 or 3 "strong backs" to do the stacking, stickering, bull work while you continue sawing....

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

Captain

I feel inferior.  I've only got 46' of track.... :)

Captain

flip

You guys and your track envy ::)  I've only got 20 ft of deck :-[  I feel inferrior too.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Fla._Deadheader


Here are some 40'--2" X 8" Guayabo (HEAVY) Wood beams. 2 guys handled them, with a piece of 2X for center support.  ;) ;D ;D




All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Great ideas.

Deadheader.
My son will be in Costa Rica in about a month (?) to help film a fishing show.  Small
world.  Love the stuff you show us in your pics.
Nope,  I fully decline manually lifting 3"by12".  The last 3" by 10" 20ft. stuff I lifted cured
me of all desire to even do that again.  I can't seem to find anyone interested in doing it
for me either;  seems that all of those guys use their energy up at these fancy shmancy
gymnasiatoriums - you know the places - where you pay them so that you can go there
and proceed to torture yourself.

Bibby.
Mary could probably figure out how to do this right there on her orange machine.
Oops, too bad.   The customer wants it done right there at his place!

Scott and Warren,
As I understand it, this customer has equipment not only to move the boards, but also
to handle these rather large logs.   The end product will be for an upcoming project
right on the property.   Everything and all activity is to happen in close proximity.
Thats' why it seems best to shuffle a small "pack" immediately to a preset air-drying
location - probably based on four-ft. centers with stuff this thick.  Because of the need
to dry it and the inefficiency of multiple handling,  I sure hope that this is the way it goes.

In other words,  cut a few...;
                         let others span-lift those few; while I keep right on cutting a few more;
                         let others build a layer on the drying foundation;
                         repeat, building layers on 2"by2" drying sticks on 4 ft. centers.
                        Since Tulip Poplar - Liriodendron Tulipifera - is so sweet and cooperative,
                        and since cuts are thick,  this max airflow stack should not be a problem.

But... for tomorrow, I have to continue cutting the most Georgiaous figured heart SweetGum
I have ever cut!     This other big stuff is two weeks out. 8)

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

scsmith42

Phil - sounds like you have everything under control.  Be sure to post some pix after cutting those bad boys!

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Will do.

By the way, did I mention that figured heart Sweetgum (Red Gum, as some call it)?

Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Finished one job  (last cut were two 14" Black Cherry logs),
took down the mill,
relocated 32 miles north,
set up the mill on a hillside,
and then
cut the first 30ft. Yellow Poplar log - all today.

I my fine young son helps me out with the camera tomorrow,
will have some pics.  Turns out we are cutting two inch thick, not 3".
That has reduced the kunniption/kontorshun factor quite a bit.

Phil L.

Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

mike_van

Phil, just curious - Do you know where they're using 30' 2x12's in the framing? 
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

The 30' long 2by12s will be components of truss systems -
really big ones.  (I was surprised, too.) :o


Oh well, I'll leave the engineering to the customer, and I will
do the sweating sawing.

Tomorrow's high in Dublin, GA?     105 , actual.    Heat index?

T/B/A        8)

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

beenthere

Sure would like a pic or two of those 30' pieces.  Are they pretty clear, and were the logs straight so the grain is also straight with the edges??  What was the top diam of the 30' log?   :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Some lengthy work



                                                                             (The spectator?  He did move, by the way.)
                                                                               

Watch yer step with the big wood, guy.




Some pretty grain, but those big boards are going to be part of a big shelter truss frame.


We hope to finish in the morning.  Want to be sawing again before sun-up.

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

WDH

F-R-P,

How hot did it get out there today?

Nice work ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

The picture of the guy going @#& over teakettle cracked me up. :D :D I hope he wasn't hurt.
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

Phil, I've worked with you and know how you cut. That picture of the guy on his back makes me think you were working the fire out of those guys and they were trying their best to keep up.  :D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

thecfarm

That poor guy.Does he know his picture is on the internet?Talk about having a camera at the right time AND taking a picture.That is quite the log.Don't work them to hard.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Don K

He probably does now as he probably heard me laughing all the way from AL. I have been in his place before.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Fla._Deadheader


  Reina was helping me one day, and did the exact same thing. I was worried she might have hurt herself, but, she came up smiling.  ::) ;D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

We finished up at 10:30 this morning.  Got there around 6:20AM - still about dark,
due to left over clouds from the tremendous and continuous storms we had
come through all night long.   Rain had stopped about 5:00 AM this morning.  We could
still see lightening out to the west toward WDH's territory as we drove into the site.

Yesterday morning my son, Jesse, was taking photos.  I asked him at a certain point if he had
gotten any pics of Jerry and Chuck handling the big boards (You know
those boards that we weren't going to hand-bear?).  Since he had
not, he turned and got that shot of Chuck - booties in the air and booty
on terra firma.  Honest. We did not stage it, nor anticipate it.

Chuck is fine.   He really worked on this job - always does!  Both of us were glad to
wrap it up.  Working with big logs is time consuming and sometimes brutally
tough.  Many of you guys already know what I'm sayin'!  Ironically, on this type
job the sawyer works hardest doing multiple runs back and forth to get the side
boards all the way around the log and still maximize the main boards desired -
the 2X12s thirty feet long.  The offbearer works about 1/3 the time, but the
sawyer is in perpetual motion.  With the heat we started early and made short
days of it.  The job totalled out at 13 hours with no injuries (or fatalities).

It did cool off a little today, but it was very high humidity.  My sweat band
was donned by 8:00 AM.  We had disassembled and arrived by at my warehouse
by noon.   Went to lunch with wife and son Jesse.   He is moving out and to HotLanta today.
(Sniffle, snort)

Phil L.

Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Beenthere asked about the logs' sizes.

The four logs ranged from 39" to 28" at the butt end.
The very nicest and straightest one we cut was 36" and 21". (Not pictured)
We cut all the "side wood" into mostly 2X6 material, which will be recut for
shorter uses.

Some of the logs we lifted and aligned to cut with the bark at least on the
top and the left side.  Some we didn't, since the poorer pair of logs
had a very slight "S" shape.  Of course, this produces some sloped-grain,
but what degree of slope is it when you are talking a couple of inches over
a 30 ft. log!?  Not much.

The trick with the very biggest log was how to stop it, once the tractor jack
got it to roll off our make-shift log deck and onto the three bunks.  It was 39" at
the butt and about 24" at the small end. That big boy had a slight sweep to it - maybe four inches. 
WHUMP!  When that offset rolled over, you better be out of the way! We had the dig in stop posts,
angled in the red clay ground to take the primary impact. That was the only way to keep from
destroying the entire set-up. 


When it was done,  Chuck and I and the customer were all happy.    Thasss good! ;D

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

MikeH


WDH

Cut into conventional lengths, those logs would be a pleasure to cut.  At those lengths you sawed them, what a monumental challenge :o.  I am impressed and the customer surely got one heck of a good deal :).

That was a heck of a storm last night too. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

"best laid plans of mice and men" smiley_contract_point

This job went well enough, but nothing like the plan.

Heavy lifting equipment?   No, just a worn out tractor.
Carry the lumber by machine straight to stack?  No. Customer didn't prepare that.
Take off boards as sawn by machine?    No. Just slid them off the end and onto bearers on the ground.
Or put the boards right on a trailer.   No.  Customer just planned to lasso a bunch and drag them off.

Well, maybe we can use the fancy-shmancy plan next time.   Good that God made man flexible and adaptive, huh?

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

WDH

Adapt, improvise, and overcome ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

 


Span between posts = 38 feet.

I borrowed this sketch from Tom's Gallery.   As I understand it, the guy (for
whom I cut the 30-footers) plans to immitate this design, but will add steel
cables down low as tension members across the truss.   Instead of the
long rafters being 2X8x as in Tom's friend's design, they are 2X12s.
Depending on the pitch my customer chooses, the span could be ...

well,  uh...

quite a ways! :D

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

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