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Author Topic: Blade Tooth Setting  (Read 6021 times)

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Offline EZ

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Blade Tooth Setting
« on: April 07, 2003, 01:13:14 am »
Don't know where I come up with some of this stuff, but anyways, here goes.
Beings that a blade tooth is set out a little on both sides, I wonder why the blade looses it's set. When I hit a nail it moves the set out farther, so you wood think as you saw the set wood get greater, but it does'nt. So if you could put a slight angle on the inside of the tooth, it wood keep the set out longer,maybe, I don't know, sounds good on paper, maybe not. :-/ :P Sometimes this pea brain of mine really rolls around in their.
EZ

Offline Tom

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2003, 11:22:44 am »
My pea brain is rolling around now too. :)  Let's see. :P

Perhaps looking at the blade teeth from the face would help determine the forces that encrease or decrease set.

The outside corner of the tooth is what does the cutting because it has been stuck out there in "harms way".

If a nail hits the corner of the tooth, it probably twists the tooth and the tooth gets pulled to the outside, encreasing (destroying) set.

Normal wear has the stress on the corner, point and face.  Since the pressure is constant rather than an impact, perhaps it is pushing the tooth toward the straight up position which would cause it to lose set.  Also the wear of the cutting corner would cause the loss of set.

Lenox makes a "Turbo" tooth that has an angle on it.  Tim Cook of Cookssaw has a picture of one in his little newspaper but I can't determine what it is that they are trying to depict.  I think that they are grinding the face at an angle.

Here are some diagrams from the knowledge base and prior posts about sharpening that show blade configuration.  




Set - Sharpen / Sharpen - Set

Now without slow motion or stop motion high speed photographs we're just guessing but it's fun anyway, :D
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Offline EZ

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2003, 04:13:58 pm »
Tom,
Yes that is what I mean by grinding a angle on the face, then the tooth should stay set longer, if you think about it. I called off work today to saw, but all I did is watch it rain. I been checking this post all day to see if any body answer yet. Thanks for answering, Tom, but I guess we still dont know about it yet.
Come on guys, we need more input, what do you think, Arkansawyer.
EZ

Offline Tom

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2003, 04:33:27 pm »
Well keep thinking, you might discover something.  I think it is Dino that makes a sharpener that is advertised to alternate an angle on set teeth. I'll have to try to look it up later. :P
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biziedizie

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2003, 05:09:46 pm »
Looking at a blade......not off the mill as I don't have one of them in my office yet! But looking at a blade from my sazall I see what you guys are talking about but looking at a blade from the mill.......yes I have one in the office now, grabbed it out of the van! I'm thinking that the blade is tempered after its set? And in doing this the tips can't start bending outwards. Does that make sense?
 Got a few other ideas but wanna see what you guys think about this.

     Steve

Offline Tom

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2003, 05:14:58 pm »
I'm going to sit back and watch because I'm not sure I understand. :-/
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Offline EZ

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2003, 05:19:23 pm »
If tempering the set wood make the difference, then why do ya loose the set. Next.
EZ

Offline EZ

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2003, 05:23:22 pm »
Come on Tom, be adventurous. ;D
EZ

biziedizie

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2003, 05:39:30 pm »
I would think that tempering the set is just something that is done at the blade factory to make the tips stronger. Being the size that the tips are it seems natural for them to want to bend back into place and be flat like the blade.
 As far as them wanting to bend outwards if you look at the blade you can see from the way its sharpened that it wants it to pull the set inwards.


     Steve
 

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2003, 05:52:50 pm »
I Don'T really think that you "lose" the set, as much as you lose the "sharpness" of the tip of the tooth. When I hit the first piece of metal, it was a glancing blow. I mic'ed it, and found the set off by only a couple of thousand's. The teeth on the other side were sharp, and the teeth that struck the metal were ROUNDED. The teeth are pretty tough to bend, so, I don't think you "lose" set. These are Suffolk blades and a file won't touch them !!
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Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2003, 08:29:50 pm »
   The set in the teeth is "worked out" of the blade as it goes around the band wheel. Try bending angle iron around a wheel. One side of the angle will have to stretch or the angle will have to be flattened out to bend. Because of the gullets, the teeth flatten out instead of stretching. If a blade is set by bending the tooth closer to the tip, the set will last longer. I usually have to reset my blades every second or third sharpening. I always set first and then sharpen.

Offline Dugsaws

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2003, 09:22:54 pm »
Tom my pea brain thinks it is Simonds that has the Turbo tooth  ;) I wouldnt know that either cept that I only use simonds red streak all the time. I know cookssaw says you can sharpen and set in either sequence but they recommend to set then sharpen, but I have wondered if going the other way would give the results EZ is talking about, DanG sounds interrestin.
Doug

Offline Tom

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2003, 09:33:08 pm »
I don't think the order in which you set and sharpen would make any difference.  If I understand the turbo tooth right, it is the face that is alternately ground such that it isn't at 90 degrees to the direction of travel.  The picture in Cooks paper was all I had to go on but that is how I saw it.

I set and then sharpen too.  It saves me a lot of time from having to rub the burr off of the teeth. It is the way Woodmizer taught me years ago and it just stuck.  If you look at the two drawings above you can see an exagerated example of each.  If you set last then I think that you are changing the face grind because it twists the tooth a little.  You are also moving the corner of the blade away from the wall of the kerf.  I like to think that the left picture is what my blades look like.
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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2003, 06:27:40 pm »
Yesterday I sharpen a blade with a angle on the teeth, I use a angle grinder cause I dont have a blade sharpener. It took about an hour but I just wanted to try it. Today I put a barn beam on the mill(8 by 10 by 12 ft long. I'm pretty sure it was hickory, sawed 1x's, it sawed nice & EZ. The blade is still looking good, now I wish I had some more. Going to keep atrack of BF with this blade.
EZ

Offline Tom

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2003, 06:39:29 pm »
So that you can remember and judge against other blades, try to measure the angle and take pictures of what you did. Gullet depth, set, rake, tooth-back angle, tooth height, blade thickness and width all may make a difference in the long run.

Is the point of the tooth square or pointed? If there ends up being much difference is it because the face is ground at an angle or because the face is square and the point is ground to an angle.(this would happen if the back grind was angled rather than the face grind).

Photos will show gullet shapes and tooth to gullet transition angle shapes.

This might be interesting.
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Offline EZ

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2003, 03:39:21 am »
Tom,
As I said before I used a angle grinder. It was hard to use this cause of holding it by hand. I dont really know what degree of angle I put on, I just thought the angle I put on was good enough. The blade I used is a $15.00 1 1/4- .042, it was resharpen & set once. The guy sets at 19 degrees. When I put the angle on, I angle grinded the front of the tooth & the gullet, I did'nt touch the back of the tooth.
My puter camara is getting fix, they have had it for 4 months now, maybe I'll have to get a new one.
EZ

Offline MrMoo

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2003, 07:52:43 am »
Could it be that as a blade gets dull the point of the teeth do not cut and as a result the teeth get deflected as they pass thru the wood? Eventually causing them to loose the set.

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2003, 05:14:42 pm »
I use a 1 1/4 x0.042 blade with 7/8 tooth spacing and 10 degree hook. I have found that sawing fir that had the limbs broken resulting in dry knots, will take the set right out of a blade. The out side corners of the teeth were still sharp, so the cutting pressure of the knot was enough to bend the tooth toward the blade. On a log that is all green, there is no problem.

Offline EZ

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2003, 05:32:04 am »
Saturday we sawed 640 bf of red oak with the blade that I angle sharpen. The blade is still cutting strong with good results. The logs are 10 & 12 inch dia that have been laying around a while. I can peel the bark off with the cant hook. I am sawing 5/8 thick x 5 inch wide boards. If I can get my wife out of bed this morning, I hopefully will finish this job up today. ;D
EZ

Offline Neil_B

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Re: Blade Tooth Setting
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2003, 05:55:45 am »
I'm going to take a stab at this.
According to a sharpener I had talked to, F_D is right. The pressure will cause the teeth to go back to neutral over use decreasing the set.
It is Dinasaw that has an alternating head on it's sharpener to put an angle on the tooth. It automatically changes through the range of left, centre, right or depending on what your configuration of rake? is.
I believe the teeth should be set first then sharpened. If you sharpen first and you have teeth that are out of set further than others then you will have a different angle of tooth when that moves out in line with the other sets. It would kind of be like having some teeth on a chainsaw, shorter or longer than others and only the longer ones will do the cutting. Not sure if that's a good example.
EZ - the way you sharpened it by hand is the way the Dino sharpener works I think giving the angled teeth.

Let me know if I'm way off or close.
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