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Need FF wisdom and advice on Planer dilemma

Started by Max sawdust, July 26, 2007, 09:55:07 AM

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Max sawdust

Hi all,
Lots of interesting threads lately on spiral head cutters.  Been learning alot.

Here is my situation:  Have a Powermatic 15" planer, with knife head. Most everything I plane starts out rough and needs to have a fine finish when done.  I plane "damp" cedar and dry Aspen, Birch, Maple, oak and figured birch and maple.  Also would like to plane glue up panels wider than 15".  (Wider would be nice, but not an absolute requirement today.)  My problem is tear out on figured woods birch and the damp cedar.

So I want to upgrade to a spiral cutterhead.  But I am concerned that I would be disappointed with the Grizzly spiral cutterhead because the cutters do not provide a shearing cut like the Byrd cutter does. 

Here are the choices I see:
1. Buy a Byrd-SHELIX for my 15" powermatic.  (Can pay cash, sell the planer within the next year.)
2. Get the Griz G5850Z Professional planer and See if Byrd can make a head.  (Really can not cost justify yet) Grizzly does make a spiral head pro version G0544 but again I am concerned I will be disappointed in figured woods and birch.
HELP :-\
Max


True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Tom

Let me throw in another option.

Have you looked at drum sanders?  There are a lot of people who work with difficult woods that are using them for (thickness planers)

http://www.woodmastertools.com/
http://www.woodsmithstore.com/210100.html
http://www.exfactory.com/equipment.aspx?catId=SW&Sort=spnetprice

There are some cantilevered models with open ends that double the width by being able to turn the stock and make two passes.

Sanding does away with torn grain and rip-out.  You can use it on birds-eye hard maple where a planer is almost impossible to use.

I don't mean to try to sell you on this, only offer it as an option.

Fla._Deadheader


Max
Are you certain that the spiral head at Grizzly, is NOT a Byrd ??  I've heard rumors  ::) ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ADAMINMO

The Grizzly planers a similiar to the ones we sell just smaller.We have alot of customers who love them due to the fine finish they leave on the wood.The grizzly spiral cutterhead I dontt think is a Byrd but rather a reproduction of the Byrd cutterhead.From my understanding those cutterheads work great in all kinds of wood wether it be damp or figured.Hermance machine company sells a nice looking spiral head similiar to the Byrd.PM me for info if you would like and I can get you their info as well.Not tryin to sell just givin my input from past experiances.

Max sawdust

FLA.
I think they are different.  I asked Grizzly directly and the response was, the inserts are 90 degree to the cutting surface and the Byrd are not, and they promote the shearing cut effect.
Tom,
Open 18" drum sander not a bad idea, just not sure about tolerances with drum sanders, I look for 1/64 or at least 1/32 accuracy.  Something to consider and look into at least...thanks
Adaminmo,
Would be interesting if they make a spiral head like the Byrd, so far all seem to have the inserts 90 degrees to the cutting surface.  I will PM you for the info.
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

sawwood


Max why not sell your PowerMatic and buy a 18" WoodMaster
with the spiral cutter. You can also git the pro pack that will have
the moulder head, sander and saw blades. If you don't need the
saw blades i am sure they will make you a deal with out them.
Call Mark Redman at woodMaster and he can let you know what
the set up will be. May be you can find some FF member that
Haul it up to you.

Sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

Norm

Max I had the same thoughts myself. I used a Jet just like your powermatic for years. It was loud, underpowered and a pain to change knives in. I decided to sell it and buy the  G1033X from Grizzly. It is a step down from the ones your looking at but I couldn't see enough difference to pay the extra for the ones your considering. I plane lots of q-sawn wo and had problems with tearout. It is a big improvement and so much quieter I'd have upgraded just for that reason alone. I don't do any of the woods you are talking about so I can't say how it will perform for those. I also have the woodmaster with a drum sander in it, it would not do what your asking. A good wide belt sander would but they're pretty expensive.

If you need a vacation to hot steamy Iowa bring a couple hundred bd ft and you can give her a test drive. :D

ADAMINMO

From the brochure I got from Hermance the teeth on their head is just like the Byrd ,being turned to have the shearing effect rather than the 90 degrees to the cutting surface and have a chop effect.

Max sawdust

Quote from: ADAMINMO on July 27, 2007, 10:22:12 AM
From the brochure I got from Hermance the teeth on their head is just like the Byrd ,being turned to have the shearing effect rather than the 90 degrees to the cutting surface and have a chop effect.

Can you clarify ???
Do you mean Grizzly when you say their or Baker ???
max

Norm, Thanks for the offer, would enjoy seeing your operation, and very curious about how your model would perform with some of the woods I mentioned..  If I get some work in SW WI some day.....I just might take you up on it ;D
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

ADAMINMO

I am meaning the cutterhead that Hermance Machine manufactures.The Baker planers have the spiral cutterhead that the teeth are 90 degrees to the cut surface.The next batch of planers that I order are supposed to have the reproduction "Byrd" style cutterhead that has the teeth turned for the shearing effect.

Max sawdust

Adam,
Cool, I checked them out on the link to the left, requested info. 
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

metalspinner

QuoteOpen 18" drum sander not a bad idea, just not sure about tolerances with drum sanders, I look for 1/64 or at least 1/32 accuracy.

I can measure differences in thickness of about .003" on my cantelevered drum sander across a 15" wide board.  It is a Performax 22-44. One of the less expensive models, at about $1,000.  It is a very accurate machine and can probably be tweaked even closer.  Just to see what would happen, I sanded a piece down to .002" .  It fell apart because the grit of the sand paper met in the middle of the board. :o  If I had used a finer grit, I could have probably taken it down to dust.

These machines are not thicknesser's, however. More like finisher's.  Every board I send through my planer goes through the sander.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

low_48

You could also get a custom grind on the planer knives and get better performance on the figured wood. I bought a big Yates American planer out of a school many years ago. The first figured hardwood through it looked horrible. I called the company and they asked for the number off the cutter head. The knife angle was setup for soft wood. I thought I had thrown away a bunch of money for a moment, untill the guy tells me to have a back angle ground on the blades and it will work fine. I had a 10 degree (off the vertical face of the blade, moving the cutting age backwards) angle ground on the front of the blade, making about an .06" flat. The results were fantastic :o This back grind changes the cutting angle and works a little more like a scraper. I didn't really notice any downside to this. The knife grinding guy recommends this to alot of people now. I can give you the address for the guy in East Peoria, IL, or ship them to me and I'll take them over if you want to try it.

ADDED A SKETCH IN MY GALLERY IF THE DESCRIPTION DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Max sawdust

Quote from: low_48 on July 31, 2007, 11:07:44 PM
I can give you the address for the guy in East Peoria, IL, or ship them to me and I'll take them over if you want to try it.

ADDED A SKETCH IN MY GALLERY IF THE DESCRIPTION DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Low 48
What you are saying makes sense.  I started a thread on the subject a while back, just never followed through ::)  I have an extra set of knives I would like to give it a try.  Either way, give me the address and tell me what to say to your knife guy or I will send them to you.  Your help is much appreciated.

Metalspinner,
I would like a drum sander as a "finisher" some day.  I suspect one would go broke buying sandpaper if they used it as a thickness er..

Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

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