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So what's going on in PA?

Started by Furby, June 30, 2007, 11:27:19 PM

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Furby

Passed through Pennsylvania this past week and noticed in some areas that it looked like spring was just starting with the trees just beginning to leaf out, but near by they were totally leafed out.
Saw a lot of it was white oak, but not even close to all of it was.
Was wondering what it is as it covers a pretty massive area.
These pics were taken from I-80 near Bellefonte.
Sorry they are blurry, hard to drive and take good pics in the haze. ::)



stonebroke

Its called tent catepillars. We had them last year I guess its PA's turn this year.

Stonebroke

Furby

Really?
They cover a HUGE amount of ground!
Never seen it that bad.

stonebroke

Thousands of acres!!

Stonebroke

Brian_Rhoad

The Gypsy Moths are very bad this year in PA. They are attacking the White Oaks in our area. I talked to the state forester for our area and she said they were going to count the egg clusters in August. Looks like they will be spraying next Spring. Hopefully that will take care of them and save the trees.

Ron Wenrich

They aren't tent caterpillars, that's gypsy moth.  They are attacking mainly the oaks, since this really isn't that bad of an infestation.  I would think that area has more chestnut oak than white oak. 

Back in the late '70s and early '80s that mountain would have been bare.  You would be able to pick out the tulip poplar, since gypsy moth won't eat them.

This infestation is a moderate one.  You'll drive through large areas that don't have any, then you'll see patches of it.  The population will collapse in a few years without spray, and there will be some mortality, especially to black oak.  Parasitic wasps have pretty well kept everything in check.

They'll do egg mass studies and decide what areas they will spray.  They will only spray areas where there are houses.  Wholesale spraying of large areas was abandoned decades ago.  Its just too expensive and it isn't all that effective. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

stonebroke

Sorry, Looked just like what capterpillers do.

Stonebroke

Ron Wenrich

Well, it is the caterpillar stage of the gypsy moth.  So you got the caterpillar thing right.   ;)
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Furby

Years ago we had a bad outbreak of the gypsy moth here.
They started spraying and in two short years we went from not being able to go outside without an umbrella, to being free of them.
This year they are back and it's impossible to even try and keep the pool clean. >:( >:( >:(


I really couldn't make out what the trees were as I flew past at 70mph, but I could see a lot was oak with others mixed in.
I've sinced wondered if that's what it looked like around here before, but nobody could see it due to our lack of hills like you have out there.

Ron Wenrich

What the state found with spray programs is that it knocks back the population, but it doesn't collapse it.   So, instead of having a 7-10 year period between population peaks, it was reduced to about 3-5 years.

Mortality comes mainly in the trees that are codominent  or suppressed.  The dominants can usually come through a 2-3 year defoliation unless there are other factors.  Larch can take 9 years of defoliation, but hemlock only takes 1 year.

I'm sure a lot of things go unnoticed in the flatter areas.  Those hills make it a lot easier to spot timber. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

johnjbc

 The Gypsy Moth are pretty bad in western Pa. usually the top half of the ridges are bare.
I took pictures at camp on 6/10 and again last week. The fires trip the caterpillars were every ware. This weekend there were only a few but the moths were flittering around like one of the snow flurry's where big flakes come down. Must be why they named them Gypsy Moths


Picture of one eating

Bare trees. This is at camp down near the stream, they are far worse up high. Sort of look like early spring when the leaves are just coming out.

The next 2 pictures of the same tree 3 walks apart. The moths in the second picture are dead.
\
I tried to get a picture of flying moths but most didn't show in the pictures.
[img]
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Ron Wenrich

Those moths in the 2nd picture are laying eggs.  Only the males fly, so all those ones you see flitting about are male.  Lack of flight is why it takes so long for the moth to expand its range.  RVs have served as a means of transport.  Camp in one area and take it to the next.

Have you seen any of the parasitic flies or wasps?  The flies look pretty much like a house fly, but they don't shoo like one.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Mooseherder

I remember a Gypsy Moth infestation about 30-35 years ago in Northern Maine. I didn't know only the Males Flew. The night lights made it look like a Blizzard they were so thick.  Hard to imagine it would have been a more digusting event than it already was if both male and female would of taken to the air.

johnjbc

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on July 03, 2007, 07:15:00 PM
Those moths in the 2nd picture are laying eggs. .

Have you seen any of the parasitic flies or wasps? The flies look pretty much like a house fly, but they don't shoo like one.

Ron
The moths in the second picture are dead. Do they die after laying eggs?
There are flies that look like a normal house flies. But they sure do byte.
We also have a lot of wasps. They nest in the trailer, outhouse, and campers but I don't know iff they are parasitic or not.
John
LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

thecfarm

They attacked the red oak around here about 20 years ago.Wasn't too bad around here,but about 45 minutes from here it looked like some of the pictures posted.Looks real odd to see it.Far as I can tell it doesn't really hurt the trees for that year.Now it the moths came back 2-3 years running than we would be in trouble.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ron Wenrich

John

After laying eggs, they've pretty much carried out their life's work.  Egg masses hold about 400 eggs for next year's circle of life.

cfarm

Normally, a single defoliation won't really have that big of effect on the stand, except some of the suppressed trees.  Sometimes you get a secondary disease or insect that will give you the whammy in one year. 

I was in one stand that got the moth in the spring, leafed out, and was followed by oak leaf roller.  Large areas of dead trees in one season.

For the most part, oaks can withstand 2-3 years of defoliation.  Usually the population collapses about that time.  They eat themselves out of food, and don't make it to a mature stage, or if they do, they don't lay as large of an egg mass. 

Hemlock can't take 1 defoliation, but larch can take 9. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Mike_Barcaskey

and if the oaks are able to leaf out a second time, they have spent the energy reserves destined for acorn production.
bad gypsy moth springs are followed by bad mast corps in the fall

PA is full of dead or leafless trees
down in the sw corner of the state oak wilt is the biggest killer of the red oak family
if they are sycamores without a full head of leaves it is probably anthracnose. you can tell by the witches brooming on the ends of the stems
Dutch elm disease kills all the elms
blue spruce with dead branches in the lower crown have cytospora canker
tent caterpillars munch on our cherries
sugar maples are falling to maple decline and some verticillium wilt
and now emerald ash borer

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

WDH

Nature has a way of keeping things in check.  Sometimes it is not pleasant to us humans :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Mike_Barcaskey

WDH,
applied to native pathogens in the ecosystem your statement is true.
unfortunately the vast majority of tree death now occurs because of introduced pathogens into the ecosystem. there is no natural checks and balances.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

WDH

Excellent point ;).  The introduced pathogens can run amok until everything adjusts.  Unfornunately, it takes eons of time for that to happen :-\.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thurlow

What is it y'all have got against Gypsy Moths?   ::)

Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Mike_Barcaskey

I drove I-79 in the western part of the state on Sunday (if you look on a map, approximately from Pittsburgh to I-80)
95% or more of the dead trees I saw were elm
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

jjmk98k

But what really hurts, is that a vast majority of people dont know and dont give a Dang about whats happening in the forest.....

I try to educate the folks around me, but these city slickers dont care  ::)
Jim

Warminster PA, not quite hell, but it is a local phone call. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

Mike_Barcaskey

jjmk, you're like right between new York, Filthydelphia and Jersey, what do you expect
you have my condolences

BTW  GO STEELERS!    :D
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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