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Solved!!...12 Part What-is-it Test......Do You Know Your Leaf Shapes?

Started by WDH, June 19, 2007, 11:20:48 AM

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Texas Ranger

7 to 9 petiolate leaflets?  Leaflets 3 to 4"?  Apex acute to acuminate?
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

metalspinner

Give me a minute while I tap myself on the back for getting the Ash right......... 8) 8) 8) 8)

Of course, by the looks of TR's last post, that one might still be up in the air. :D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

WDH

Number 10 is Mulberry.

Green ash has leaflets of 5 to 9.  This one just happened to have 5. 

If I had not collected the leaf and knew that it was green ash, and if I had been taking this contest, I would have most likely guessed pignut hickory.  With only the shape, that would have been the percentage play  :P.   The maple could be any hard maple like black maple, sugar maple, or florida maple (southern sugar maple).  It is florida maple.  The mulberry shape is kind of non-descript.  This leaf is large for a redbud, but it is a good guess.  All the rest of the pics are very distinctive as to species because of some particular or unique characteristic.

Shapes are like pictures.  You only get an impression of what you are looking at, and then only the impression that is covered by the extent of the pic.  With the real plant, you see, touch, taste, etc. everything.  So, it is much more difficult to identify a plant from a picture (or just a leaf shape).

That is why I am impressed by the initial responses 8).  Good job!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Texas Ranger

That aint what Harlow and Harrar say, but, green ash around here has a narrow leaflet, and generally smaller leaf, and the 7 to 9 leaflets.

good job, good quiz, makes ya think a little.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

WDH

The books are good.  I depend on them in many ways.  Sometimes the plants don't always do what the book says they should do.  Like pignut with 7 leaflets.  The book says 5, rarely 7.  But I see the 7's a lot.  Some manuals called that Red Hickory if the bark is a little scaly.  Some call it a variety of pignut.  It is hard to pigeon-hole nature.

In any event, you guys are good sports :D.  The more we share with each other, the more we learn :) ;) :P ::).  I really enjoy the Whatzit threads.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

I would like to see a picture of the doors in place beside the fireplace.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

OneWithWood

So is it only Black Gum that is also known as Tupelo?  :P
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

WDH

OWW,

Tupelo and blackgum are in the genus Nyssa.  There are several species that generally are broken down by leaf and fruit size and the site they inhabit.   

Sweetgum is not related.  It is in the genus Liquidambar. 

So when people refer to tupelo, they might be referring to blackgum, but not sweetgum.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tom

I got confused years ago when I was reading about Black Gum that was also called Black tupelo and a tree called water tupelo.  Some writers, the Internet is bad for it, lump all of the common names into one pot and give the impression that there is no difference.   

I had access to the swollen butts of an acre of black gum.  A friend of mine, who is a carver, asked me for Tupelo.  "Sure, said I".

I loaded my truck with the swollen butts, probably had 60 of them.  I cut them short so that all he would get was the "soft" wood of the buttress.   I carried them to him and gave them to him for free.  Later I found that it wasn't what he wanted and that Black gum buttresses weren't anything like water tupelo buttresses.  The water Tupelo buttress is softer and lighter than butternut and has little definition between the winter and summer wood.  It is an excellent wood for manual carving and machine carving too.  Those who make Duck decoys prefer it to butternut.

I have since hunted for water Tupelo around here and can't find any.  It's a good thing I wasn't selling it.  That would have been even more embarrassing than the faux paux I experienced.

WDH

I have heard it is good for carving.  Never sawed any myself.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dodgy Loner

The commom nonclementure used for the Nyssa genus makes it one of the more confusing taxonomic groups in the Southeast.  We have four native taxa:

Nyssa sylvatica:  This tree is most commonly known as blackgum, or less commonly, black tupelo.  It frequents dry to mesic sites of the mountains, Piedmont, and coastal plain.  I suspect that the reason it's not usually called black tupelo is that people tend to associate the word "tupelo" with wetland species that are frequently found in standing water with swollen butts.  What's interesting is that blackgum produces no gum of any kind.  I suspect that it may have gotten it's common name because the wood is so similar to sweetgum.  The two are impossible to reliably differentiate without a microscope.

Nyssa sylvatica var. biflora: This tree, a variety of blackgum, is commonly known as water tupelo, which means that it is often confused with the similarly named swamp tupelo.  The leaves are narrower than blackgum, but smaller and with a shorter petiole than water tupelo.  Also, the fruit is small and blue to black, while water tupelo has red fruit.  Swamp tupelo is most common in standing water, where it forms dense stands with large, swollen buttresses.  They are generally small trees, less than 50' tall and 1' in diameter, but specimens in river bottoms can be much larger.

Nyssa aquatica:  This tree is known as water tupelo, and is the most common tupelo of southern river bottoms.  It often grows in inundated swamps, where it forms a huge buttress, sometimes 6-8 feet in diameter.  The height of the buttress is usually higher in areas that have higher floods.  These trees are commonly 80-100 feet tall, and often taller.  The buttresses and roots of water tupelos are very light and soft, as Tom mentions, and have been historically used for floats by fishermen.  

Nyssa ogeche:  Commonly known as Ogeechee tupelo because it was discovered on the Ogeechee River, this is a somewhat uncommon species, restricted primarily to South Georgia and North Florida.  To confuse matter, another common name is Ogeechee-lime or Ogeechee-lime tupelo.  This is because the sour, red fruits were once harvested for their juice, which tastes similar to lime juice.  It's closely related to water tupelo, and the casual observer probably wouldn't notice much difference.  Water tupelo, however, is a larger tree, with longer petioles and more pointy leaf tips.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

WDH

Nice discourse.  You couldn't have been nyssa about it :D :D ;D
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

OneWithWood

One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Lanier_Lurker

Quote from: WDH on June 21, 2007, 12:42:25 AM
The books are good.  I depend on them in many ways.  Sometimes the plants don't always do what the book says they should do.  Like pignut with 7 leaflets.  The book says 5, rarely 7.  But I see the 7's a lot.  Some manuals called that Red Hickory if the bark is a little scaly.  Some call it a variety of pignut.  It is hard to pigeon-hole nature.

In any event, you guys are good sports :D.  The more we share with each other, the more we learn :) ;) :P ::).  I really enjoy the Whatzit threads.


I have more 7 leaflet pignut than 5.  Either that or I also have some red hickory (Carya ovalis) on my property.

WDH

Quote from: thecfarm on June 21, 2007, 04:29:49 AM
I would like to see a picture of the doors in place beside the fireplace.

Thecfarm,  Here are some pics of the doors.



Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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