Challenger tractors?

Engineer · June 14, 2007, 12:34:46 PM

At the risk of seriously undermining my relationship with the local "green" tractor dealer, I am considering a purchase of a new Challenger and am looking for feedback if anybody owns one. I currently have a JD 4100, which is only about 20-ish horsepower, and I'm looking for something in the 35-45 range, outfitted with a backhoe, loader and possibly a 6" chipper at some point. The only other machine that I have seriously looked at is the JD 110 TLB, which has the skidsteer quick-mount on the loader. But at over $40K, I think I can do better with less brand recognition. The 110 ain't even green and I feel like I'm paying ten G's for the paint job.

Nailhead · June 14, 2007, 01:36:37 PM

Don't know anything about the Challenger tractors, but this spring I went shopping for a new tractor thru out the U.P. and northern Wisconsin and the green ones were apx. 15 to 20 % more money than any other major brand. I ended up with a Kubota 7040. The Case and New Holland were comparable with the Kubota. I bought the Kubota because the dealer was the closest to me by quite a bit. So far am very pleased with the Kubota.
My neighbor is thinking about a "crate tractor". I believe it's a Jamar or something like that. Price sounds real good, but I don't know too much about them.
NH

stonebroke · June 14, 2007, 02:21:38 PM

I think challenger tractors are just agco tractors with cat engines( or perkins ,which cat owns , in the smaller sizes)

Stonebroke

tomboysawyer · June 14, 2007, 03:09:54 PM

Quote from: Nailhead on June 14, 2007, 01:36:37 PM
Don't know anything about the Challenger tractors, but this spring I went shopping for a new tractor thru out the U.P. and northern Wisconsin and the green ones were apx. 15 to 20 % more money than any other major brand. I ended up with a Kubota 7040. The Case and New Holland were comparable with the Kubota. I bought the Kubota because the dealer was the closest to me by quite a bit. So far am very pleased with the Kubota.
My neighbor is thinking about a "crate tractor". I believe it's a Jamar or something like that. Price sounds real good, but I don't know too much about them.
NH

For engineer, New Holland is closest in Greenfield, NY (Capitol Tractor) and Case is in Latham.

Maybe we could share parts runs - Case for our dozer, Capitol for our skid steer. ;D

I have to do many more Case runs than New Holland runs - more a function of the kind of equipment than the quality of the brand.

sawmilllawyer · June 14, 2007, 03:20:19 PM

I have een the Challenger brand over at E-bay, usually fetches a good price. Suposed to be made by Cat. Really don't know much about 'em.

Engineer · June 14, 2007, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: tomboysawyer on June 14, 2007, 03:09:54 PM
For engineer, New Holland is closest in GreenWICH, NY (Capitol Tractor) and Case is in Latham.

I looked at the New Hollands before I bought the Deere. Not impressed. Seemed fragile, reputed to have weak drivetrain.

Earthworm sells Challenger in Cambridge on 22, and in Raymertown on 7. I have yet to visit and look 'em over in person. There seems to be an awful lot of them big yeller tractors around here lately though.

Stonebroke, they are AGCO's, I did find out that much. AGCO bought CAT's ag tractor line a couple years back. But I don't know too much about AGCO either. :

PawNature · June 14, 2007, 05:28:15 PM

I have seen several contractors that mow the medium strips along interstates using them.

Quartlow · June 14, 2007, 06:46:07 PM

You said challenger I thought you meant one of those big beasts!! I didn't even know they had small ones.

As for New Holland, brothers neighbor has one thats about 60 or 65 HP. It does about 90% of the field work. In fact about the only time Ron breaks out the 8700 is to moldboard plow sod ground or use the field cultivator.
It will pull 4/18's in corn or bean stubble. He's had it about 6 or 7 years and it hasn't broke yet.
It mows, bales, cultivates the corn and beans, pulls an 8 foot offset disc, and everything else they through at it.

You may want to look at Farmtrac it's looks should remind you of Ford with good reason. They use them at The Fair every year for the shuttle wagons. Hay wagons with steel decks and bus seats, think heavy. Especially loaded with people. They drag them around just fine.

stonebroke · June 14, 2007, 07:43:27 PM

Agco started about fifteen years ago buying companies that were in trouble. They started with white and bought a bunch of shortline companies. They own massey ferguson and some european tractor companies. I think they are actually bigger worldwide than deere or cnh.

Stonebroke

beenthere · June 14, 2007, 09:21:33 PM

Quote from: Engineer on June 14, 2007, 12:34:46 PM
................................. I'm looking for something in the 35-45 range, outfitted with a backhoe, loader and possibly a 6" chipper at some point. The only other machine that I have seriously looked at is the JD 110 TLB, which has the skidsteer quick-mount on the loader. But at over $40K, I think I can do better with less brand recognition. The 110 ain't even green and I feel like I'm paying ten G's for the paint job.

Engineer
Are you going to get the equivalent (to the Deere 110 tractor-loader-backhoe) in the Challenger at ten G's less money? I don't seem to find much of a product line (Challenger or AGCO) in a search on the web. Do you have model's and specs for the 35-45 hp range Challengers you are looking at? links? I'm curious.
I've looked at the Deere 110 TLB and it doesn't appear to be easy to use it as a handy 3pt attachment tractor (your chipper idea). Although, I think the backhoe comes off fairly easy and quick. Pretty heavy duty lift arms etc. back there and don't recall the Cat. of the 3pt. It was designed to be just a good TLB, if I recall correctly.

Engineer · June 14, 2007, 09:41:58 PM

http://www.challengerag.com/agco/Challenger/ChallengerNA/CompactTractors/MT200.htm

I can't justify $43000 for a new Deere. The 110 is purpose-built to be worked hard as a TLB, but I don't have that kind of use planned. I expect that I'd use the machine for 12 hours a week average over the course of a year. I know I can get a machine in the 35-45 hp range for under $35k, including a backhoe.

On the other hand, I can probably get my hands on a used 110 for under $35 with a couple hundred hours. Problem is, if you don't order the 110 from the factory with certain features, you can't install 'em later (or so I've been told). Minor things such as the 3-pt lift arms, rear hydraulics, front hydraulics, etc. :

And they're $$$$$$$.

I'd stick with my little Deere forver, except that it won't lift much over 800 lb with the front loader, and that severely limits log handling for my mill. Also, I can't get a backhoe that will dig 8 ft deep for the 4100, which I would need for my job.

I've looked the Challenger specs over and I think the MT275B will fit the bill, and it's half the weight and only 3 less hp than the 110.

Don_Papenburg · June 14, 2007, 11:24:26 PM

Why not look at a 5000 series ? The yellow Deere s are considered industrial and you pay a premium for yellow paint . Interchangeable parts like waterpumps for industrial will be 25 to 50% higher than the same part painted green and purchased from the Ag dealer.
Anyway the 5000 series has a lot of options and you can get a shortline backhoe to add later and still have the option of other 3pnt equipment.

scsmith42 · June 14, 2007, 11:26:45 PM

Engineer, in the past 5 years I've owned Kubota, New Holland, John Deere, Caterpillar, Dresser, and Kioti equipment. I still own all these brands except the Kubota (sold it last year).

All that I've owned are well built and I have no complaints.

If I were tractor shopping today for something in the HP range that you mentioned, I'd be sure to look at the Kioti's. Of everything that I have, I think that I got value for my $ with the Kioti than any of the others. It is a cross between a construction and an Ag tractor, and has some of the best features from both.

Three and a half years ago I paid 32K for my DK65 Kioti - with cab and AC, front end loader (self leveling) with skid-steer type of attachments, 4WD. A backhoe attachment would have cost another 5 or 6K. This is a 65HP tractor and I can pick up about 3K lbs with it.

My New Holland is a 3010 farm tractor. It seems to nickle and dime me with minor problems (broken throttle cable, defective fuel guage, a few other minor things that are a hassle to fix, and should not have broken at the low hours (under 400) on the tractor).

Deere makes great equipment, but I think that they have cheaped up some of their stuff in the past few years. The higher-end machines are still great, but keep in mind that you're paying for a lot of advertising when you buy one of their products.

What is your planned use for the equipment? Is a used backhoe an option? My Cat backhoe will lift over twice what the Kioti will, and you can find them used for less than you're talking about for a new Deere. And a dedicated backhoe is much better at digging than an add-on unit for a small tractor.

Scott

ScottAR · June 15, 2007, 01:11:45 AM

Challengers,masseys, agcos, new holland boomers, and Case d series
are all made by Iseki of Japan.
Isn't global economy fun?

scsmith42 · June 15, 2007, 07:24:09 AM

ScottAR - what's a "New Holland Boomer"?

Norm · June 15, 2007, 07:44:45 AM

We have very few agco's around here. The majority is JD then next would be Case-IH then a few NH's around with a smattering of the rest. On the size you're looking at I'd give the Kioti a look but to be honest with you from my experience the JD is still the best tractor. I do think with the demand being strong they've gotten real proud of them and the price reflects it. Maybe look for a used one with low hours and good maintenance records.

Reddog · June 15, 2007, 02:39:14 PM

For me it is more about the dealer. A good dealer goes alot farther than a great machine you can not get parts for.
I have not heard any thing bad about the AgCo line. And we do see alot of them around.

scsmith42 the Boomer is the 20 to 40 Hp line. Don't quote me on the exact Hp's.

scsmith42 · June 15, 2007, 06:55:48 PM

Reddog - thanks for the boomer definition.

Norm - good advice re the JD - they do make a great product in their non-box-store models.

Engineer - whatever you get, go for a flat deck rather than the older style tunnel deck. Much easier to get in and out. I also like a shuttle shift for running a loader - much faster to shift from forward to reverse.

SS

ScottAR · June 16, 2007, 01:09:19 AM

What Reddog said... ;)

Think they go to 50ish hp now to compete with the
new Deeres and Kubotas.

thecfarm · June 16, 2007, 04:58:32 AM

Boomers,last years models were from 18.5hp to 45hp.Make sure it's a 4WD no matter what you buy.

Dave Shepard · June 16, 2007, 09:28:22 AM

Engineer, which Challenger dealer are you going through? Earthworm? I know the owner. He has stores in Troy and Cambridge. Incidently, he is part of the Capitol Tractor family.

Dave

Engineer · June 16, 2007, 12:17:50 PM

Well, Earthworm would be where I'd buy from if I make that leap. Their Cambridge store is about seven miles from home.

limbrat · June 16, 2007, 07:24:29 PM

Mahindra; Mine has given nothing but plesant suprises.

Handy Andy · June 16, 2007, 10:27:39 PM

The Case IH dealer here is selling Mahindra small tractors. Much cheaper than Case and JD. They say they are very good. AGCo is Allis Chalmers, and all the other
companies they have gobbled up.

beenthere · June 16, 2007, 11:29:57 PM

There are certainly a large number of different brand names of utility tractors out there, and I believe for most uses they are going to do the work.
However, if they fail (from a poorly made part, an accident, or abuse) and replacement parts are hard or impossible to obtain in the near or far future, it's an investment that may end up being a disappointment. The used market is a good place to learn what the long-term value is on most things. Trading in for something bigger is often the first move.

I know what I will stick with, and I also will hope that whatever any FF member buys, that they won't have a problem with it in the future.