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Felling dead trees, tips?

Started by IndyIan, April 22, 2003, 10:18:24 AM

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IndyIan

I've got access to a dead black walnut tree, probably been dead for a couple years.(wood doesn't rot fast in S. Ont)  It's about 16" dbh and 60-70ft tall with a few dead branches on the top.  There is some rot on the roots at the butt flare.  

Here's my plan:  
Tie a rope as high as I can get it and have a person apply some tension in the falling direction.

Do my felling cuts 2 feet up to reduce the chance of punky wood in the hinge.

Have a spotter to warn me if stuff breaks off the top.  

Move a brush pile to fall the tree on to.

I assume it's better to finish my back cut and if the tree doesn't go, finish it with the rope instead of wedges or felling lever.  

Anything else?  I've got the 'Cutting Edge' (cutters safety)book and will read through that again.  
Does walnut tend to drop limbs when being cut?  Are any tree species notorious for this?
We've had lots of wind this spring so I'd think if any thing was real loose up there it would be down already.

The wood looks really good under the bark and no woodpecker holes so I think falling it is worth while.  Also we plan on doing some work in the woods nearby so it would be good do to in any case.
Thanks,
Ian

  



Greg

Wear a good helmet!

I've got a few large black cherry stags in my woodlot in similar condition. When you get good at it, swing by my place ok ;-)

Good luck and be safe,
Greg

IndyIan

Thanks Greg :)
I sometimes wonder what good a hard hat would do with branches falling from 80 ft, but from what I've read it makes the difference on occaision.
I do always wear my hard hat though, its got my face shield and ear muffs on it and I can't cut without those either!

Greg

I wonder if somebody already makes a 6' or so steel cage type deal that can be carried by a tractor or front loader, placed at the stump of a dangerous tree like this, for the feller to simply step into after it starts down.

Some simple I-beams welded into a box with overhead mesh on would be the ticket, no?

Perhaps if you know what your doing, and are a good experienced feller, this type of thing is not needed. But I fully admit it, as a weekend forester/amateur at all this - I'm quite afraid of these "widow makers" and know my limitations and won't even attempt something like that...

Sorry, I guess I'm a wimp but It only takes once...

Cheers,
Greg

Ron Wenrich

Hardhats, never cut without them.  I worked with a forester from Montana.  I'm not sure if you've ever seen sugar pine cones.  They're about 3' long.  He was standing underneath a tree while a squirrel was busy chewing off one of those cones.

It hit him right on top of the head after about 120' freefall.  Good thing he was wearing a ding hat.  It did dirve him down to his knees, though.

I know of one guy who was cutting dead oak and wasn't using a hardhat.  I don't want to scare you, but a limb broke off and killed him.

I question whether it's necessary to cut the butt that high on the walnut.  The only punky wood you should get into is the sapwood, unless you have some heartrot.  Your just cutting a smaller tree.

If you question the butt condition, chop into with an axe to see how far the rot goes.  When you get to solid wood, you can sound it.

Any limb breakage will usually occur when the tree starts to fall.  Have a good escape route..

I don't know about felling onto a brush pile.  It shouldn't make a great deal of difference.  If you want something to cushion the fall, you should have done it when there was snow on the ground.   :D

Is this a woods tree or a yard tree?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Mark M

That metal cage sounds like sumptin Deadheader would use to protect himself from sharks or alligators. I'd be more worried about a limb falling on me that gettin bit :D :D :D

All kidding aside that's a pretty DanG good idea Greg!

Mark

IndyIan

Greg,
I've thought about the steel cage to cut from as well.  I don't have anything to move something like that around or the equipment to build it so I guess I'll do it the old fashioned way.  I guess there's a bit of risk but there was a bit of risk walking to work today beside a busy street... :) and I do that 5 times a week! :o  I'm no pro faller either but I try my best to cut like one, just takes me 4 times as long to do all the cuts! ;D  

Ron,
I do read the accident reports here and on other sites, I don't want to make a preventable mistake.  I've hardly broken in my chainsaw yet!
It is a woods tree and quite straight until the top so it will hit pretty hard, no real side branches to absorb the impact.  We might end up falling it on some much smaller trees so maybe they will help.  It is too bad we didn't notice it when the snow was on the ground.  We had enough of it to cushion any fall ::)...
I'll bring the ax and check out the butt, it would be a shame to waste that much of it for no reason.

Thanks for the help guys,
Ian

DanG

Since you're going to put a rope in it anyway, tie it off to the truck and give the tree a few good shakes. That should knock down any limbs that are likely to fall during the felling process.
If you have a cordless drill, you might use that with a spade bit to check for rot. It is a lot easier than an ax.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

The Cage is a good idea but I would think that it should be more substantial than pipe or bars.  I picture what happens on a woods tractor or skidder as it pushes debris and the limbs impale the screen shrouded operator compartment.  I've had a close call or two myself on tractors that I thought were safe from falling limbs.  

If you decide to build something like that, take into consideration that the limbs don't always fall parallel to the ground but can come down end-first.

I sure am pleased that y'all thought enough to broach this subject again. Safety is no minor subject and even if you wouldn't do some of the things that you talk about, it gets the word to others who might.  Bravo!

Ron Wenrich

Actually, the cage isn't that great of an idea.  It doesn't give you room to work or get out of the way of a falling tree.  It seems to me to be an accident waiting to happen.

You have to really consider the placement of it before you start to cut.  Then things have to go completely according to plan.  You won't be able to make adjustments because the cage would be in the way.

Then, when you want to take an escape, you have a cage in your way.  Next thing you know you're eating a tree.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tillaway

I have to agree with Ron on the cage idea.  Its not real practical to have that on site and be able to place it effectively.  Also it confines you too much, I would feel like a hamster stuck in a cage and no way to get out of the way of the oncoming steam roller. :o

You can bore the tree with the chainsaw to check for rot before you start any felling cuts.  I can't really explain how since watching it done is worth 10,000 words in this case.  Its not hard to do.  Fall it with the lean or heavy side and you shouldn't need to persuade it too much.  Snags are usually allot lighter in wieght than a green tree so therefore less cooperative about falling when they should.  Often times less holding wood is used to get them to tip.  Avoid having to double up wedges or really banging on them hard to lift it. Taps should be all that are needed.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Kevin

This is a safe method for pulling down a large tree.
Tie the rope high, make your proper notch, use a good rigging rope, a heavy block and sling in a basket fashon secured to the base of a solid tree a good distance away.
Make the face cut,  start in with the back cut adding slight tension and keeping tension on the rope with a truck or winch from a safe distance while continuing with the back cut.


Bro. Noble

One addition to Kevin's excellent advice:

Make sure the guy pulling the cable keeps even tension .  If there are dead limbs in the top you sure don't want him jerking around on the tree.

I had a close call cutting some small dead snags today.  Thought I would cut them so they wouldn't get pulled over on my son who was going to be skidding around them.  A copperhead had taken up residence in the hollow stump of one.  :o  You can try to do everything as safe as possible but it's the unexpected that gets you.  There was a casulty involved in this episode but it wasn't me. :D

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Mark M

I doubt if I would use a cage, but I still think it is an novel idea. It only needs a roof so I don't think it would be as confining as some think.

Mark

RMay

Noble years ago when I was a young lad I was limbing when a copperhead came out from under the log so I hit it with the bar tip with the saw running  ;) The copperhead went around my leg and when I got stopped running I had to go home & get some clean overalls . ;D thats the last time I sawed a snake ::)
RMay in Okolona Arkansas  Sawing since 2001 with a 2012 Wood-Miser LT40HDSD35-RA  with Command Control and Accuset .

chet

Nottin' beats a quick clean exit. Both from felling dangers and scarey ones.   ;)
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

IndyIan

Well, I'm glad all I have to worry about is branches falling on my head and not snakes jumping out of the stumps too! :o

As for the cage idea, I will pass on that.  My Dad and I were out looking at the tree and a couple others there last night and the wind was whipping it around pretty good and nothing looking loose.  

It was kind of funny, when we first go there I could identify all the black walnuts by the bark and branches.  There is also lots of ash there too and after a while I couldn't tell which was which any more...  I guess the light was fading but it was quite strange.  ???  We found a couple more dead and nearly dead walnuts(or ash's?) so we might as well get those ones too while we are there.

Tillway, I do know how to bore, in the few trees I've cut down the boring back cut is my favorite.  I like the fact you can just zip through the last little bit whenever you are ready and down the tree goes.  I've never had any problems with kick back either, I guess a 16" bar on a 372 doesn't have much leverage.

Kevin, thanks for the diagram, I think all we are going to use is a rope tied tight to a stump and then have someone lean on it.  They can apply lots of force while the rope is straight.  Of course the rope will be quite a bit longer than the tree is tall ;D

Bro. Noble

Indylan,

Even the smallest chainsaw will split your head wide open quicker than you can blink your eye.  Make sure you are 100% sure of what you are doing before using the tip of your bar.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Ron Wenrich

Difference between ash and walnut is that ash has opposite branching and walnut has alternate.  Real easy to tell any time of year.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Russ

Every time I fall a widowmaker I use my logging winch. Test the tree with a cable before you make a cut. A good yank will shake those dead branches off or even pull the tree down. A few years ago something killed alot of red oak around here. One landed one my wood truck and crushed the cab. I'd hate to see one land on a person. I'd take a chance with a tree splitting before I put myself in danger. Must be somebody around that could put a cable on it for you.

IndyIan

A skidder would be a good idea Russ, we'll just have to give the tree a shake with our rope.  I've seen the tree in 30mph gusty wind and it looks ok.

In other news, on the way out to my land I drove by the "best" barber chair I've ever seen...  Someone tried to cut a 20" willow that was leaning at 45 degrees...  No notch, just straight through from the back... :o  I didn't see the guy stuck in the power lines across the road so hopefully he's ok.  The "chair" is 10 feet high and has been that way for a week, I find it's a good reminder to play safe when I go out and cut for the day.

Ian

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