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Please educate me on bandmill blades.

Started by Ed, June 04, 2007, 08:46:24 AM

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Ed

Myself and some friends all went in together and ordered a mill  8) 8) 8)
Dyna Tech mills
After doing some research we did are having the mill built with 19" wheels, rather than the 16". We also went with the hydraulic tensioner and the 20hp Honda motor.
My "assignment" for the week  :D :D is to get some recommendations on blades, Dyna sells/furnishes Lenox brand.
So what have you found that works best? Thickness, pitch etc.

This is really opening up a whole new area for me and I can't wait for the mill to get finished and get it set up and running.

Thanks
Ed

thecfarm

What model did you get?Looks to me like a manual mill with some 12 volts options?Gald to see you got the 20hp motor.What is the hyd tensioner for,the blade?Probaly to late now,but I'm always pushing for a 20 foot track with these manual mills.I have one.Much easier to put a 16 foot log on,when you have 4 feet more than what you need,than a few inches. Can't really help you with the blades.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Brad_S.

Congratulations on the mill!
Seems like everyone has a favorite based on different criteria.
I personally like the Simonds Red Streak, .042" thick with the 7/8 tooth spacing. For my uses, it gives me the longest life coupled with good performance at the most cost effective price. (I buy mine from Menominee Saw.)
I've tried the Munksforksager and really liked the way they cut but they didn't last long. I've tried Lennox and Sandvic, both of which cut well enough but also had a short lifes. I couldn't get Nicholsons to cut straight no matter what I tried.
Very good decision going with the larger wheels. IMO, 19" is still too small but much better than 16". The .042" thickness is as thick as you will want to go with a 19" wheel. My first mill had that diameter and I didn't get the blade life I do now with the 25" wheels. You may want to go with a .035" thickness blade.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

woodmills1

You can probable get a sample blade or two from most manufactureres to try out.

How are you going to deal with sharpening?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

mike_van

Ed, congrats on becoming a mill owner. I'll second everything Brad said, I'm happy with the Red Streaks too. After years of "other" options, I bought a Cooks sharpener & setter, I couldn't be happier.  Other's here like Woodmizers resharp program, you send them out & get them back,  loads of possibile options out there.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

clintb

Are the Simonds blades that cook's sell the red streaks you talk about?

Ed

thecfarm: The mill is basically a DT29, we did opt for the longer bed so it will cut a 16' log.  Also optioned for 3 log dogs instead of 2. They did have an electric winch for height adjustment, we didn't get it, it wasn't to precise for adjusting height. I'm not really sure how the hyd tensioner works, I couldn't get the time off to go to the factory.

Woodmills1: On the sharpening, I have a old ACME circular saw sharpener in my shop, it's got a new motor & a rebuilt spindle. It shouldn't take to much machine work to make a blade holder & index stop for it (I hope  :D) I've also got a manual circular saw tooth setter, hopefully that can aslo be adapter for band use.

I will definately check out the Red Streak bands.

Thanks
Ed

mike_van

I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Brad_S.

I use a Cook's sharpener as well and used to get my blades there, still do if I need to order grinding rocks or parts at the same time, but get a quote from Menominee. They were $2 a blade cheaper last I compared. I usually get 15 at a time, so the savings add up.
Special Ed,
You're user name always makes me chuckle. It can either be taken as ego-maniacal or self depreciating, depending on the readers mindset. :D
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

fat olde elf

I've tried several brands and keep coming back to Simonds Red Streak
from Cook's Saw....Recently purchased a Cook's Cat Claw sharpener for a really great price and have ordered a setter from Cooks....I use the same exact band as Brad S.   I also share his interest in your handle "Special Ed"  I have been maried for 46 years to a special education teacher, so I thought you might be in that field....Or you just might be special..........Good luck with the new mill..........Mid Michigan must put you close to the Pig Roast..........

Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

Ed

Thanks all! I will be calling Menominee Saw as soon as I know the band length.

As for my user name....I was bestowed to me by my old high school auto shop teacher. Thats what he used to call me when he was mad at me (quite frequently). He was always having to find something "Special" for me to do since I was kinda of a screw off in class and generally went out of my way to give him a hard time. :D :D Some days I know he would have liked to send me off to "special ed" class. I made it worse (for him) since I did get good grades in his shop class.
I still run into him every now and then. Even after 25 years he still calls me "Special Ed"

Ed

MartyParsons

Wood-Mizer manufactures their own blades. We run .045 on 19" band wheels all the time. Please give Wood-Mizer Blades a try. We have different hook angles for different hardness of woods. The lower the hook the harder the wood. With the 20hp engine I would say you would use the .045 x 1 1/4 x 9 or 10 degree hook. If you PM me I can send you a book on blades it will help you on your quest for education and it should hold true for all the companys who manufacture blades
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Ed

Thanks for the input Marty!!
PM sent

This is one of the things I really like about this place. A different mill manufacturer pitching in to help educate a newbie to the world of milling.

Thanks again!

Ed

tcsmpsi

Brad

What didn't last long with the Monks blades? 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Brad_S.

The actual blade. I can get 12+ resharpenings from the Red Streaks, but 3, maybe 4 tops from the Monks. I have a stack of Red Streaks that are so narrow from resharpening that I can't reset or resharpen them again because they are too narrow to fit the setter and sharpener. I reserve them for resawing utility poles where they're sent into battle one last time and not expected to emerge intact.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

flht01

Quote from: Brad_S. on June 07, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
The actual blade. I can get 12+ resharpenings from the Red Streaks, but 3, maybe 4 tops from the Monks. I have a stack of Red Streaks that are so narrow from resharpening that I can't reset or resharpen them again because they are too narrow to fit the setter and sharpener. I reserve them for resawing utility poles where they're sent into battle one last time and not expected to emerge intact.

I'm sharpening with a cat claw and using the monkey blades right now. Are you using a different cam for the red streaks? I bought a cam ground for the monk's and would like to give the red streaks a try, it'd sure be nice to be able to use the same cam.

Brad_S.

To the best of my knowledge, cams are ground for the pitch, not for a specific brand of blade, but I could be wrong. At any rate, I have a cam that's marked for a 7/8 pitch and that's what I use on both Red Streaks and Monkeys, or any brand blade with a 7/8 pitch for that matter. You may want to check with Cook's for a definitive answer.

flht01,
What kind of blade life are you getting with your Monkeys?
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Tom

Cams are ground for the pitch, but also for the angle of the back grind and the shape of the gullet.   If you have the cam for the pitch, you can eventually make the blade's tooth configuration match it.   You need to get a new cam if you want a new tooth configuration.  Today's science says it matters.  The new gullets "suck" the sawdust in and form a venturi that holds it until the band bends around the wheel and breaks the air flow.  Steeper backs make for taller teeth too.

tcsmpsi

Thanks, Brad.

Are the Monks just too weakened by that time and prone to breaking?

When they are on the mill, do you get as much cutting from them as you do others?

I've got a batch of Monks.  I haven't used any of them yet, but will be soon.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Brad_S.

The Monkey's are the only blades I have found that cut well right out of the box (in fairness to one of our sponsors, I've never tried a WM blade), and boy do they cut! I pre-sharpen all new blades I get yet the Monkey's still seem to cut slightly better early on but diminish at a rate equal to any other blade. What I really like is the an unparalleled surface finish, leaving virtually no saw marks. I'm careful with my setting when I resharpen so I can leave a very smooth finish but the Monkeys still trump my best efforts.

After a resharpening, they seem to perform equal to any other blade but after the 3rd or 4th resharpening, they break. As far as performance time on the saw, they are equal to any other blade, the exact time is, of course, relative to many factors.

In stating that I get short blade life from many brands, I feel I may be forming opinions in many minds that may not be accurate, so I would like to re-iterate something I said in my original post. Red Streaks are best for my particular use. Most of my sawing is on site in a customers logs, often yard or lot trees and most jobs range from 300-2500 bdft. I am usually presented with a variety of species in varying conditions of cleanliness at any one site and seek to approach a job with a 'universal' blade with a set and hook that can tackle whatever I come across. Since I charge by the hour to compensate me for time spent doing things on site other than sawing, to me, speed and high production output are secondary to versatility, durability and longevity. If you are set up on your own lot you have control over what logs are on deck and what condition they are in. You can then use a blade tweaked to better cut that size and species of log. If you seek production over longevity, the Monks (or other brands) may be the better choice despite the shorter blade life. It all comes down to numbers.

tcsmpsi
I have no doubt you'll love those Monkey's. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on them after using them for a while.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

flht01

Brad,
I really don't have enough time using the monk's to know just how many bf I'll be getting. I like the way they saw and I've had good results with them after resharpening. I'm on my third resharpen with the two I've used, it'll be interesting to see if I experience breaking them too. One thing I've noticed (using the cat claw setter) is the lack of set in the new monks. I'm going to get a new one out of the box and check it to be sure, but (if  remember right) there was only about 15 thou on the one I checked. *** edit: Just checked a new blade and it averaged 16 thou set. *** I reset them to 21 thou on the first sharpening and they sawed good but were a little rougher. Keep in mind I'm still in the beginning of the learning curve.

Tom,
Thanks for clearing that up. I got two cams with the grinder and the other cam is ground for the cook's super sharp blades. Theres a difference in the looks of the profile for the monks and supersharps even though both are 7/8 pitch. The cook's also looks like it might be ground with less hook, I'll have a better idea after I get a chance to use them.

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