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Author Topic: Mourning Doves  (Read 8264 times)

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Online Jeff

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Mourning Doves
« on: November 30, 2000, 06:49:28 pm »
I make this post as a Hunter and A gun owner.

When it comes to hunting and gun rights most advocates would say we should never give up any ground, and probably take any we can.

But in the case of Michigan opening up to Mourning Dove Hunting, I ask WHY? Yes, I know, 20 some other states hunt em anyways. They are great sport.

All I know is the many mornings driving to work seeing them always in pairs, picking gravel in the dark on the gravel roads. Sitting in our trees, Lined up on utility wires. (can you see higher electric bills coming to pay for the shot up utilities?)
 I guess maybe it's just me, but it seems the dove (a symbol of peace) should maintain it's Michigan sanctuary.
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2000, 07:42:37 am »
Dove birds, as they are called in Texas, are a migratory bird and are hunted here.  Usually there is a restricted season, and generally they breed here in the south, and along the Mexican border.  They, like quail, have a high death rate, it is estimated that only some 10% survive from season to season.  This is caused by nesting loss, and predation.  Lately in the south fire ants have been taking a toll on nesting birds.  Hunting the dove is fast and furious pass shooting, with limits that are strictly enforced.  And we here in Texas would appreciate y'all for not shooting our birds.  We would rather have them done here!.  But, what we take out is part of the 90% that will not survive the winters, or nesting casualties.  As migratory birds they are under federal protection as well.  Here in Texas we have three species of dove, each with different restrictions on them for hunting, and different zones in which you can hunt them, different seasons in different parts of the state.  Of course we are a tad bigger than your state, so we have more room to play.

It is y'alls decision, but, take them there or we take them here, and, so far, we seem to have plenty of them.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2000, 03:20:34 pm »
We still have some here at the bird feeder.I've never hunted them, but they say its great sport. I assume they will get "wilder" than they are here in town. That's part of the argument, we let them go south for the dove hunter shooting there. Anti hunters are strongly against opening a season here so we may need to go to Texas to hunt them after they leave here.  
~Ron

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2000, 06:05:31 pm »
     The doves just do not seem like a game bird to me, perhaps for reasons like having them at the bird feeder.

   We all have seen rows of doves sitting on power lines. What's your guess about what will happen when the first slob hunter comes along? They will probably find a few crispy hunters lying next to some dead birds and downed wires.

 I will stick to grouse. More of a meal, and a lot bigger target!

   
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2000, 01:49:52 pm »
We've always had a dove season in PA.  It starts September 1.  I only know of a few guys who actually hunt them.  They like to nest in pines.  Good shooting, but it takes too many to make a meal worthwhile.

We have them at the bird feeders all year long.  Especially like cracked corn.  

All our quail and pheasants have gone.  Seems like the state protection of hawks has taken its toll on these game birds.  I had 3 pheasants last over winter last year.  These were stocked by the Game Commission.  By April, they were gone.

I've thought about stocking quail.  I have plenty of cover, but I have doubts due to the abundance of hawks.

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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2000, 08:42:23 pm »
Dove hunting is in the hunting, not the eating.  They have a dark breast, about the only thing you can eat.  Clean em, breast em out, stick a jalapeno in the cavity, wrap a piece of bacon around it, and slow cook on a grill fired by mesquite.

A little coldbeer, and dinner is on the grounds.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2000, 10:03:11 am »
In the case of mourning doves in Michigan. The biologists here have testified that 60% of all doves will be lost due to mortality.
I have hunted doves in Indiana and it is great sport and tasty eating. Best when served on a grill with garlic and butter.
By the way, our mourning dove is more closely related to the common feral pigeon than the "bird of peace" (that would be the Mediterranean dove).

Tim

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2000, 10:22:05 am »
I have noticed that two posts in this thread mention doves at thier bird feeders. That is mostly my hang up on hunting them. It is not political or moral, simply personal.

 I used to live in a part of Clare county in the very early 80s where I could shake a corn can and have wild turkeys come right in the garage with me. I didn't hunt them either, but I do now, as they no longer seem like pets.
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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2000, 07:25:25 am »
hmm, Don. How do you know that what is shot will come out of the 90% I would think it statistically would be distributed across the full 100%, so if 20 hunters shot 1 bird each, 18 would probably not have been among the survivors, but 2 would have been . Am I missing something?   LW
Quote
Dove birds, as they are called in Texas, are a migratory bird and are hunted here.  Usually there is a restricted season, and generally they breed here in the south, and along the Mexican border.  They, like quail, have a high death rate, it is estimated that only some 10% survive from season to season.  This is caused by nesting loss, and predation.  Lately in the south fire ants have been taking a toll on nesting birds.  Hunting the dove is fast and furious pass shooting, with limits that are strictly enforced.  And we here in Texas would appreciate y'all for not shooting our birds.  We would rather have them done here!.  But, what we take out is part of the 90% that will not survive the winters, or nesting casualties.  As migratory birds they are under federal protection as well.  Here in Texas we have three species of dove, each with different restrictions on them for hunting, and different zones in which you can hunt them, different seasons in different parts of the state.  Of course we are a tad bigger than your state, so we have more room to play.

It is y'alls decision, but, take them there or we take them here, and, so far, we seem to have plenty of them.
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2000, 08:25:26 am »
LW:  Your correct, but the effect is not that much different.  There is a hugh loss of resource in bird populations over winter.  Competition, weather, preditors, etc, take their toll.  Biologist say that removing  a certain level from hunting reduces the flock with out effecting the breeding and reproduction of the species.  And since it is a random thing, taking birds that fly by rather than the biggest and best, or the poorest and least, you have no impact on the breeding stock.  

The cloestest simile I can draw would be removing the grains of sand from a beach, any grains you remove are replaced by indistinguishable grains.

Random numbers thing.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2000, 10:07:17 am »
Okay. My turn.

As far as allowing dove hunting in Michigan - to me it would be like hunting a robin.

I understand they are a challlenge to hit, due to the size and the way that they fly.

I also have to admit that our friend from that big state down south makes them sound mighty tasty, and he builds a good case for hunting based on population dynamics. If y'all invite me over for dinner I will have no problem eating them.

Still - I can't bring myself to shooting the little suckers. See you at your next BBQ Tim.

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2000, 06:55:15 pm »
O.K.,
 I can see this all coming together. A BBQ at Karasek's to promote the wonders of Dove Hunting, and a seminar on log cabin building techniques! Good Idea Frank, Tim is really goona thank you! I'll start printing the invites...
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2000, 01:45:54 pm »
     I have been thinking on why I would have started this thread to begin with, and in reflection, I wish to change my stand. Not because of anything anyone has said, but by what I have though,t and said, in the past.

    I am sure most of you remember "proposal D" of the 96 election year, and the battle that we faced as hunters to retain our rights in the way we hunted black bear, and in effect our rights to hunt in general.

We had a radical writer in our local paper that wrote letters to the editor week after week calling hunters "sadists" and making statements such as "getting gratification or pleasure by causing pain."

Anyway, I got tired of reading this and decided to write my own letter. After being published that week, Mr."Lucha" never wrote another letter.

I dug up that letter and have posted it below. My own words have changed my thoughts on deciding, other then for myself, on my right to hunt.


           LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Dear Editor,
   I would like to Thank Mr. Lucha for his letter last week, he stirred my emotions, and brought back memories.
   
   Mr. Lucha, let me tell you about Dad taking
me squirrel hunting. We ended up at an old
town-hall for a make-shift picnic. We had pickled
bologna, crackers and water. We played on the swings and searched for the biggest acorn-caps
to make whistles. I don't remember killing any squirrels that day, but I treasure that day of sport, brought to me by my right to hunt.
   
    How about the rabbit hunt? No rabbits, but I got a hockey stick and Dad got a walking cane from the Tag-Alder swamp we hunted through. Another priceless memory given to me by my right to hunt.
   Dad died two years ago, but I thank-you Mr. Lucha for reawakening my passion for hunting and memories with my Father.

Sincerely Jeff Brokaw
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2000, 05:21:32 pm »
No dove hunting in Michigan for now. It lost in the Senate by one vote. I'm not sure yet why both UP Senators voted against dove hunting.
~Ron

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2000, 05:28:48 pm »
I just spent Christmas at my in-laws. Watching doves out the kitchen window. Must have been 50 pair at the feeder You can't feed deer in that county, so the birds are important to them.


 I was at an outdoors board the day after the dove vote. Yikes! Some of those hunters sounded pretty militant. I mean down right angry. I do hunt, and I enjoy it, but how can one get so angry for "losing" something you have never had?
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2001, 04:46:06 pm »
The residential doves have been here in my feeder all winter in safe harbor. No migration for the southern shooters. Saw my first robin Feb.22 so spring must be on the way.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2001, 09:07:25 am »
Jeff,

Ones blood pressure tends to rise when denied  something repeatedly on grounds that can only be described as emotional drivel.  Mourning doves are R procreators, not K procreators.  They routinely have large clutches of eggs and can nest more than once per year in Michigan under favorable conditions.  Hunting them would in no way, shape, or form endanger the species and even the anti-hunters have admitted such in the past.

The only reason the antis can offer for opposing the hunt is the offense done to their aesthetic appreciation of and affection for the species.  If those hunters were angry, good for them.  We've been trying to get a mourning dove season in Michigan for quite some time and the gutless wonders in Lansing haven't seen fit to side with science and fact over emotion and ignorance.  Until our so-called representatives grow a spine and tell the Audabon Society to pike it ;D , then angry hunters will stay angry hunters for years to come.  Why the heck should I have to drive all the way to Indiana to shoot a dove?

Whether you hunt them for the sport or for a morsel of breast meat, the more hunting opportunities afforded Michigan hunters the more likely people are to hunt and support their God given, constitutionally enumerated right to keep and bear arms.  Now, my friend, that's worth getting worked up over!!!
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2001, 09:20:55 am »
I am not anti hunting, I hunt. I am not anti gun, I own several. I like Doves at my feeder. I would no sooner shoot one then a Robin (how do Robins taste?). My god given right of choice. Yours too. When I mentioned "angry" hunters. It was refering to more then being angry, these guys were talking violence. That's just plain Bull. If you win the right to hunt them, I say good for you, invite me over for a taste. only My opinion.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2001, 03:12:29 pm »
In your preceding post you didn't mention that these fellows were advocating violence, so first things first: hunters that advocate violence are anathema to those of us wise enough to maintain a semi-civil level of discourse.  There's nothing worse for our collective image as hunters than an unshaven, belligerent lout in camouflage making threats against antis or public officials.  Let the Earth First! and Earth Liberation Front get the bad press that they richly deserve.  We certainly don't need to give the lefties in the press an excuse to hammer us.

As for your neighborhood doves, they'd probably stay safe if you live in a subdivision.  If you live outside of Clare in the sticks you'll need to have most of the necessary habitat components on your property (food, water, field, forest, and sand/grit).  If one or two of them are taken while visiting someone else's property, well, don't lose any sleep over them.  Rest assured, there'll be plenty more next year for you to feed and take photos of in your back yard.  ;)

Of course, even without a human dove season (grrrr) there's plenty of predators such as Cooper's hawks and sharpshins that enjoy dove tar tar.  Bon appetite, my raptoral friends!
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2002, 01:21:46 pm »
I know this reply is late, but hey! Here it is anyway.

I'm from Indiana and I hunt doves. The argument about slob hunters shooting the power lines is entirely specious. It's like the anti's arguements against concealed carry, that if a state allows concealed carry it will turn into Dodge City and the streets will flow with blood, which is just silly. If that were the case, you'd see that in states that already allow them. But of course it just doesn't happen. Moreover, do you really think even a heavy field load of #8s will take down a power line?

If you do one day get a dove season in Michigan, you'll still see plenty of doves at the feeders. There will still be more than you can shake the proverbial stick at. That's my exeperience in a state with a dove season.

Rob Keeney
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2002, 05:29:58 pm »
Welcome, Rob. I'm glad you brought this thread to the top, as I hadn't seen it before.  I'm not a big hunter, or a gun nut, but I do hunt occasionally, and own several hunting and defense weapons.
I will say, however, that, when used irresponsibly, even the lightest of loads can cause a lot of damage to power lines and phone cables. A power line consists of more than just the wire, itself, and while a #8 may not actually bring down the wire, it will damage insulators and fuses, etc. Aerial phone cables are made up of thousands of tiny wires encased in a plastic sheath. Damage from bird hunters is very common, and quite expensive to repair.
I'm not saying you shouldn't hunt doves, just watch out for the hardware. :)
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Offline Tom

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2002, 05:30:23 pm »
Hey Rob,
Yep, you sure went way back for that one.  But, that's ok, we all do the same thing.  Some of those old threads are worth bringing back and, heck, sometimes those old subjects are still fresh for the picking.   Welcome, ya heah?

At 8 years old, I've shot dove from power lines and phone lines with my 410 and #8's.  Never heard of a damaged line from it.  All the lines were on our place and the lights always stayed on.   Now if a deer had been running down the line from pole to pole and I unloaded on him with a Semi-automatic 30-06, there is a good chance that if I hit a line, there would have been line problems.  

As I got older, shooting dove from the power line became less of a challenge and the "sport": took over my want to take meat home.  I have bought many a cadillac for Remington shot gun shell manufacturers.  :D :D  What birds I've eaten, while delicious, shouldn't be compared with the price of beef at the grocery store.

Dove are good, the sport is fun, the comraderie is special and the father-son time is of the highest quality.  If your lucky, you get supper too. ;D

Every state should have a Dove season.  It's one of the greatest excuses for young and old to get together, socialize and make a lot of noise.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2002, 05:49:26 pm »
I`ve repaired many shotgun blasts to phone cables.
Most of the cables I work on run for many miles and it can take awhile to locate  shotgun pellets or damage from a single bullet.
Please don`t shoot birds on the wires as it affects service and cuts into my coffee breaks.  ;D

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2002, 06:42:49 pm »
OK! ;D
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2002, 09:21:51 pm »
Hey Kevin, I didn't know you were a telephonical type guy, too!  You still slicin' cable?  I'm a Carrier and Special Services Tech in Tallahassee. Spent 30 years in Central Office, and Operations Center, and the last 2 1/2 yrs here. Lovin' it. It kept me from retiring too early.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2002, 05:12:40 am »
Dan, I`m a cable repair tech for Bell Canada.
I work in and around town and have about 200km of cable,carrier and fiber to maintain northward along the trans Canada two track.
It`s a little on the buggy side up here right now and if that doesn`t frost your tropicals we`ve got bears up to our ying yangs.

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2002, 04:50:54 pm »
Well, I've learned something new. I figured that phone and power lines would be tougher than that. I certainly didn't mean to imply that I condone shooting at wires. I'd certainly never heard of it being a problem. While I have been tempted a time or two to try and take some doves off a line, I never have and never would.

Thanks for the welcome!
-Rob

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2002, 07:01:26 pm »
I think the whole wire issue is a red herring. Shooting doves on wires is like shooting upland game birds before they fly. Hunters who do that in the presense of others are laughed at. The sport is to catch them on the wing. We all know that some hunters will do anything to bag their prey, but other hunters shouldn't have to forego their hunts just because some spoilsports give them a bad name.

As for doves eating at bird feeders, if you watch them long enough, you see that they can be just as ornery as any other bird. Doves are just birds and when we let emotions decide policy, we always lose.
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2002, 07:31:53 pm »
I don't think that people shooting sitting birds is the problem. Sometimes, the birds fly near the wires and cables, causing the hunters to accidently perforate said conveyors of power and conversation. All I'm saying is that you should be careful, and try not to hit them. :)
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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2002, 08:08:18 pm »
But that's just DanG good common sense. The same could happen with pheasants and ducks, but they don't roost on wires. The decision on whether to have dove hunting or not should be based on the assumption that the society should guarantee the individual liberty if an overwhelming societal need doesn't exist. The benefits of allowing dove hunting seem to overwhelm the negative effects.

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2002, 08:17:52 pm »
On the subject of birds, what`s a good non lethal woodpecker deterrent?

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2002, 09:07:41 pm »
Clear cutting? ;D
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Offline CHARLIE

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    • Coulee Region Woodturners
Mourning Woodpeckers
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2002, 10:23:55 pm »
Kevin, check a few of these for ideas:

www.critterridders.com/birdrepellents.htm
www.birdbarrier/Site%20Pages/ScareProducts.htm
www.paulnoll.com/bird-feeder-Woodpecker.html
www.users.qwest.net/~lhutchins/flickerfacts.htm


I basically did a search for 'woodpecker deterrent'.  There are a lot of sites on this subject :P
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Offline Kevin

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2002, 05:06:51 am »
Will do, thanks C.

Offline WSJ

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Re: Mourning Doves
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2002, 03:16:17 pm »
A good dove shoot is a quality hunting experience and just as sporting as you care to make it.  What isn't a good or sporting dove hunt (and probably illegal to boot)?  Shooting them off your bird feeder (or baited field) or off a powerline.  You can't legislate ethics.

As for eat-ability, they're pretty tasty and, as one of my old wildlife professors said, "They're bigger than a shrimp."

Wish there was a season in NY.  I miss South Carolina!  
-WSJ