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The Bees Are Vanishing

Started by TexasTimbers, April 23, 2007, 03:23:35 AM

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TexasTimbers

By the billions. Scientists, entomologists, beekeepers, none of them know why. They are just dissapearing. It started last year here in the US, now it's happening in Europe and Brazil.
I briefly mentioned this in another post but I read some more on it. It ain't looking good for people who like certain foods that cannot grow without bees, which according to the experts is fully one third of our food supply.  :o
Bee Article
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Dana

I wonder if the commercial beekeepers may have contributed to this. They move bees from large geograpically different areas which may not allow the bee's a chance to develop resistance to that area's diseases, and pests.
A similar example would be ballast water from ocean going ships that is dumped in the Great Lakes. There is now a group of foreign fish, mussels, plants that the Lake eco system has no natural defence mechanism for. This is causing the native species to diminish and the foreign species to thrive.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

OneWithWood

Might be a canary in the coal mine indicator of things to come. 
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Corley5

I read an article the other day that it maybe stress related as hives that are transported with the seasons seem to be hardest hit.  Especially ones that are hauled from say Mi to Fl in the fall and then back to Mi in the spring.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Radar67

I think Corley5 might be on to something. The natural beehive on my place seems to be thriving. Someone recommended having it removed...I think not, they were there first.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Thomas-in-Kentucky

I only lost 1 of my 8 hives this winter... average for me.
Knock on wood, my bees haven't disappeared yet.

-Thomas

beenthere

And of course I don't really know, but it all smacks of hype and "the Sky is Falling" gibberish dribble (to me).  Trying to get attention.  Maybe as OWW says, it is a warning signal. Maybe it is pesticides, or moving the bees, or the mite, or a fungus, or doesn't exist at all ::)
It's worth checking into, and keeping abreast by studying, experimenting, testing, and monitoring. We spend huge amounts of our tax dollar to have specialists researching this all the time. All are fighting for more money to do more. This is one way of getting that funding.........may be for some to scare the H... outta people. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

low_48

I bet those people in Pompei wished they had payed more attention to some of the warning signs. Probably a famous quote around there, "That volcano will never erupt......", or "oh, that's just a little steam venting..........."

I don't think we can minimize what stress we are putting on this planet. It seems to me that we can only dump so much crap into the air and water, or ourselves for that matter, before it really bites us in the behind. ANY warning sign should be taken seriously!!!! If a species is dying, make a correction NOW. Only study it enough to make an educated correction, and do it. Error on the safe side.

My brother, a farmer, has just been diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer. He's 47 and we have no history of cancer in our families. They stopped drinking well water a long time ago on the farm, but I have to believe there is some strong environmental connection to this. I don't think my Dad ever took any precautions handling all the chemicals on the farm. He died when he was 61, from heart failure. He was not the greatest example for my brother to use while learning about handling all those crap  chemicals. He has a horrible summer coming his way with several surgeries and who knows what hell of treatment.

We must continue to heal this world!

Roxie

I really sorry to hear about your brother. 

As for the bee's, it's interesting that I found this thread today because I was just noticing today that I've seen more honey bee's this year than I ever have in my life.  We have cherry tree's that are blossoming, and they are covered with honey bee's!  There is no man made hive close by, so I was really amazed at the volume of bee's.

I can't figure this world out.....
Say when

Patty

Lower 48, I am very sorry for your brother. It is extremely sad indeed. I truly hope he has a full recovery. Cancer is such a heartbreaking disease to witness. I will remember you both in my prayers.

This country is far cleaner now, than it was 40 years ago when I was a kid. And that is a good thing. To go and do crazy things, like jump on every band wagon that happens by is just that....crazy. I love breathing clean air, drinking clean water.....but don't we all? Spending a bazillion dollars to figure out the way of the honey bee is kinda silly, don't you think? Species have been coming and going forever....think dinosaur....long before man came along, and I am willing to guess long after man leaves this earth. 

I am still waiting for the killer bees from South America to come up and destroy the world like the Weekly Reader told me was going to happen immediately......that was back in 1962. Or that we would all starve to death by the year 2000 due to over population...that was in 1972..........or that the world would be one giant ice cube due to global cooling.....that was in 1970. By now you would think some would actually look back on all these "sky is falling" folks and remind them of their dire predictions that never came true.

Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Ron Wenrich

OK, I'm not making this up, but the newest buzz is that cell phones have a connection to the bees disappearing. 

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece

"Its always sumthin"   Rosanne Rosannadanna
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Fla._Deadheader


Maybe the Bees can't get connected to the "Beeline" and the cell phones they carry are not sending the GPS signal ???  ::) ::)  Now, they are all lost in a black hole in the sky.  :o
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Woodcarver

Maybe you're on to something there, FDH.  :)

I'm skeptical.  Cell phones have been around awhile and this problem is fairly recent.  Hives collapse completely or are unaffected.  Why would cell phones affect some hives and not others?

Wild bees are rare around here.  Years ago we were considering keeping a hive or two of tame bees because of pollination problems in our vegetable garden.  A pair of newlyweds bought 40 acres across the road from us and built a new home.  As chance would have it they were (and are) bee keepers.  Since then we've not lacked for bees. And we have a ready source for honey and beeswax. 

 
Just an old dog learning new tricks.......Woodcarver

Paschale

Sometimes, when bad news is all around us, the first reaction is to say, "come on, already...not ANOTHER scare."  But in some cases, it really is true.  Look at the emerald ash borer.  In the first few months of hearing about it, no one paid it any mind, and some people might even have said it's just an excuse to do studies.  Well, in this case, millions of trees have died, and right now, every ash tree in America is in jeopardy.  That's not a case of the sky is falling.

I'm reading and hearing about the demise of honey bees more and more.  It's a real problem, which probably won't hit us until next year's crop.  There are enough bees in reserve throughout the country to get through this year's crop, but if American honeybees next year suffer the same fate as this year, prices will go up, and if it continues in the following year, there might be some shortages, and if it continues beyond that, then we could really have some serious problems.

It's certainly not "nothing."

Honeybees are the primary engines of pollination, so I'm listening, and listening intently every time I hear a story about it.   :P
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

rebocardo

This would concern me more then global warming, though I have to think maybe the bees are being stressed too much. We already known African bees have invaded the South, maybe bringing bees from Northern states to the South, where they can pick up a disease or a fight for their lives is stressing the hives.

I think they will find it is a combination of factors including human induced stress from moving them from one climate to another.


Tom

Bees have been transported for years with fear of inoculating areas of the country with parasites.  It has just never happened yet.  Varroa and tracheal mites have been a couple of the latest and they are bad.  The Keepers are looking down the throats of beetles and wax moths now.   Foul brood is a real killer. 

You don't have to have insecticide involvement when there are these natural killers.   As a matter of fact, it is believed that Varroa may be responsible for the latest alarm.  The mites become resistant to the medications in use.  Most of them can only be used part of the year or they adulterate the Honey.

I know the Government has tried to get involved with good intentions.  But, when they do, the first thing they do is try to regulate.  Regulation requires registration and registration requires money, which the Bee Keepers are charged for by way of permits and licenses.  Because of this, the mainstay of the Bee Keeping community, the hobby bee keeper, has almost disappeared.  The Hobby bee keeper, in most views, has been the reason that bees have remained as common as they have.  Commercial keepers feel threatened by the hobbyists because they think that they lose the control on the price of honey.  They hobbyists produce a great amount of honey in small batches.  Both producers have been threatened with the honey from China in the last 10 or 15 years.  It has gotten to the place that most of the honey on the market is Chinese.  The barrels at the Broker houses all have chicken scratching on them. 

Honey is used in more ways than the jar on the kitchen table.  It is one of the biggest sweeteners on the market and goes into breads and all manner of food stuffs.  It's a been a real challenge for the hobbyists to compete in, what has become, a global economy.  If you have a bee keeper locally who sells on the side of the road, you should use him.  It is the encouragement of these small businesses that will insure that we have bees.  These are the guys that are so interested in the science of keeping bees.  It is an intimate relationship with them.  Many feel that the regulations of government are prohibitive and may result in the demise of the industry.

A little googling around will find you some enlightening articles on the industry.  It's not as faceless as some think.  Bees may be being kept in the backyard of your neighbor right in the middle of town.

crtreedude

I don't have anything to say really about the loss of bees - we have a few I can do without - the aggressive killer bees - Harold, for you info - if they show up, you can contact the fire department and they will get rid of them for you - they are trying to stop the spread.

Anyway, the most common bees in the garden are little black ones here - and get this - they don't have a stinker. I was watching our gardener walking into a swarm of them, nearly gave me a heart attack.

They make a really nice honey too. This is what I want, honey bees with no stinger!
So, how did I end up here anyway?

treebucker

I was reading last week about the conection between the disappearance of honey bee colonies and cell phones last week. There was a vague reference to leaving a cell phone next to a hive and the bees wouldn't return. It spurred me to dig into the research that led to that conclusion. I could not find any studies, or methods used, to support these claims. I'm not trying to say they are wrong, I simply wanted to see who did the research and what methods they used to  determine it. I brought this up to someone over the weekend and he made a wise suggestion: Move some hives next to the cell phone towers and see what happens. eh eh
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

Thomas-in-Kentucky

I donned my bee veil, fired up the smoker, and opened up three of my bee colonies a few hours ago.  I'm not a professional beekeeper - not even a serious hobbiest, but I have been keeping bees for about 8 or 9 years now and I have 8 hives at present.  (the most I've ever had was 15).   Usually I lose 1 or 2 hives every season (usually over the winter) and make up for it with splits, or by catching swarms, in the spring.  When I did treat for mites, it was only once a year, not twice like they recommended.  And my untreated bees seemed to have no more mites than my treated bees.  But then the mites were supposedly resistant to the popular treatment flouvinate (commercial product is Apistan), so they recommended a nerve agent called coumaphos (commercial product was Checkmite).  That's when I said enough and quit treating them.   I haven't treated for mites, or any kind of parasite for that matter, in 4 years.

I logged on here to say that maybe the pesticides that beekeepers have been putting in the hives to combat varoa mites are starting to catch up with some of the hives.  They say not to treat the hives when the bees are putting honey in the supers, but everyone knows these pesticides accumulate in the wax, and honey stored in the brood supers.  The bees move honey around the hive too.  So how could you not end up with these pesticides in your honey?  Not wanting to feed that residue to my family (and being too lazy to follow the treatment schedule) is why I quit treating my hives.  Also more incentive to raise my own honey - to my knowledge they do not test super-market honey for residues of these pesticides that almost all beekeepers use.

Until I logged on just now, I had never heard of the cell phone theory - I find it intriguing.  Possibly just a coincidence, but I'll throw this out there... cell phone coverage does not exist here on my farm.  Although almost every visitor with a cell phone has tried once, no one has ever successfully made or received a cell phone call from our holler.  And I have not experienced the massive hive losses talked about in the media.  hmmmm.  interesting theory - matches my personal observations so far, but then again so do a lot of other theories.

-Thomas

ps. I observed Varoa mites in my colonies today.  No surprise there I guess.

treebucker

Thomas,
Some things I remember from last week's searching was a few opinions rendered about this disappearance problem. One opined that treating our colonies for mites did not let nature take its course and weed out the weak. There was also speculation about augmenting the bee's diets with corn syrup, and the stresses and disease spread related to frequent transportation. One European postulated that all the hives in America could be traced to just 5-600 queen bees. Most scientists expressed the opinion that is was probably a combination of factors causing it so it was going to be hard to pinpoint.

The hives don't have any workers in them, their queens are healthy, they have an amply supply of honey, and all the young are healthy. It is common for dead bee hives to be raided by other bees and stripped of all honey. But when these hives die they are found with all their honey intact.  I like honey but this is scary. Do the other bees sense something we don't?
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

TexasTimbers

Quote from: crtreedude on April 24, 2007, 12:07:43 PM
. . . . .  Anyway, the most common bees in the garden are little black ones here - and get this - they don't have a stinker.. . ..
Fred we got rid of out Skunk Bees (those with stinkers) because the stinking honey would not sell. Sorry couldn't resist. ;)


On a serious note. I don't get alarmed about too many things when it comes to the environment, but when Billions of bees dissapear in about 18 months, my eyebrow raises just a bit. I am going to watch what happens with this, unlike global warming and El Nino, there is no precedent for this at least of which there is a record. there is ample evidence of prior cycles of gloabal warming etc. But the widespread dissapperance of the worlds' natural pollination system is not anything to shrug off as "no big deal". It bear's watching. Pun intended. :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Tom

There is a lot we don't know about how this world works. ...Probably will never know.

The first thought when bees are missing is that we are doing it to them.  I guess we feel that we are responsible for everything and have put down poison or something.  There are natural reasons that things like this happen.  If we weren't smart enough to recognize the problems that would arise from AIDS going unchallenged, we might end up in the same boat.

Yep, it could be parasites, disease, or even something else that we are unaware.

Did you know that there is a phenomenon having to do with Bamboo that we don't understand?   It seems that Bamboo reaches a maturity, flowers and it dies.   Sounds natural, doesn't it?   Trees do it, we do it.  We just use ourselves all up and it's all over.

The difference is that Bamboo does it, species specific, all over the world.  There was a big scare in the latter part of the last century when it was thought that those cuddly bears in China were going to starve to death.  Bamboo was their main-stay diet.   When the Bamboo began dying, it died, not just in one patch, but in all the patches in the world.  It was as if all the Bamboo of that particular species was connected by roots and was really just one big patch.   Apparently enough lives to perpetuate the species, but, for all intent and purpose, That species ceases to exist.  I don't know that I've ever heard a good explanation for it.

Shucks, we might find that Bees are that way too.  Maybe they reach a point of hybridization where they can no longer exist, so they start over. 

It pays to be concerned, but the facts are that we may never know.   We just think we are smart enough to figure it all out.  I don't think we are as "in charge" as we think.

We tamper with first one thing and another, break it, try to fix it and, all in all, might just be spinning our wheels. It's kinda like the fellow that worries about the tide washing his house away, so he takes a bucket and bails the ocean to keep it from getting so high.  'Course, then, he has to figure out where to put the water, it keeps running back into the ocean.  First thing you know the problem is the water running back into the ocean and everybody has these grandiose ideas of how to fix it.  They forget that the original problem was the tide and the fellow didn't have the where-with-all to control that to begin with. 

Eventually the ocean washes away the sand and the house falls and people forget that the beach used to be a lot longer and life goes on. :)

I'm going to miss honey too.  It'll be nice if it's something we can fix. :P :)

TexasTimbers

Your words reflect my own sentiments Tom. Yet, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I am really curious about this one.

Must have a bee in my bonnet over it.  Maybe what happened was that one day, by some prior bee-breeding freak of nature, the result was that billions of bees were born and no one noticed them coming into the world all at once. But when they all up and died we decided they were worth missing . . . . . 

"Don't it always seem to go, ya don't know what you got til it's gone  . . . they paved paradise - put up a parking lot . . . . . "
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Ron Wenrich

I've got some questions that maybe you bee folks could answer. 

If it would be a disease or parasites, wouldn't there be some dead bees someplace?  Same thing if it would be environmental.  Someone would have found some dead bees and would have been able to perform a bee autopsy.  No dead ones have been found.

So, what happens when a hive swarms?  I've only seen a few of these, and had one at my house a few years back.  I know that typically a hive will split and some workers will follow one queen and others will follow another.  There wouldn't be any dead bees if they swarmed, would there?

What causes them to swarm?  Pheromones or is it some sort of radar (like bats)? 

Lastly, a few of you talked about checking your hives and some years you lose some.  Where did they go?  There's no dead ones there either.  Do they swarm and just leave because they don't like your company?   :D

Or is it alien abductions? 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Fla._Deadheader


When I started messing with Honeybees, I bought a book, "Practical Beekeeping". Learned a LOT.  Usually, the workers get upset that the present Queen is not keeping up with demand. They build queen cells and put a normal egg in it. They feed the larva "Royal" Jelly, and that produces a Queen. When she flies, most workers fly with her. The rest either nurse other queen cells, OR, they put up with the laggard Queen. Sooner or later, that same hive will swarm again, until the workers are content.

  When a hive "dies out", it just means they have abandoned the hive, OR, they starved from Moth infestation, or Mites. They usually try to reorganise and when they fail, they die in obscurity.

  My first hive was a "wild" hive from a hollow tree. Pics in my Gallery.  I "caught" 2 more swarms, hanging from limbs. When a swarm is active, they won't sting, unless you REALLY mess with them. They are intensively protecting the queen, that will be in the middle of that swarm or hanging wad of bees. Scouts are out looking for a suitable location for a new home.

  It's REALLY an interesting thing to get into.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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