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Solved!!!!!!....Gum Bumelia. What is This?

Started by WDH, April 19, 2007, 02:36:47 PM

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WDH



Found in Texas courtesy of Tcsmpsi, but is generally widespread.

Whatisit?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

WDH

Negatory on both accounts.  Here is another clue...........It sometimes has thorns on the branches, sorta like a plum (but it is not a fruit tree so any type so don't go there).   Also, the leaves feel real velvety.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

Okay, is it in the oak family, maybe a live oak? I'm learning as I go here, and it is fun.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

Nope, not an oak.  Some more pics.  Here is one of the thorns.




Two more clues:

1).  The flowers are axillary. That is, the flowers form in little clusters at the base of each leaf stalk (petiole).

2).  Some of the older growth has short shoots.  These are very small very short little branches from which the leaves occur in a whorled or twirling (that is NOT a botanical term) cluster.

I have only one clue left :).

Axillary (associated with the leaf petiole) flowers:



This photo shows axillary flowers as well as the short shoot whorls:



Note the 3 leaves in a cluster on the left side of the photo that all originate from the same point on the stem.  That is a short shoot whorl.

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

I'll give someone else a chance, the only other thing close in my ID Book is Hopps.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

Last clue (probably won't help much.........sorry).

The bark:

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

solodan

I am gonna take a wild guess.  Lets see, thorns and flowers at base of the leaf.... I know I can't be right cause  Radar 67 is in Mississippi and the state flower there is the tree I was thinking.....could it be Magnolia ??? ???

WDH

Nope.  I guess y'all will have to sleep on it.................................
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Weekend_Sawyer


Is it a tupelo? that bark kinda looks like it. I have some large ones that are all den trees.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

WDH

Jon,

You are warmer than anyone else, but sill pretty cold.  The bark does look like tupelo, but it is not tupelo or black gum because they do not have thorns and axillary flowers.  If y'all don't get it by Sunday, I try to come up with more clues. 

I will say this.  Like tupelo and black gum, the fruit is a blue/black drupe about the size of a marble ( a drupe is a fruit with a hard stone-like seed like a cherry).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

flip

Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Texas Ranger

Let's see, there are some 1700 sub species of this plant, a large number of which, perhaps a majority, of the supposed species are 'asexual apomictic triploids'.

How's them apples, Dan?  Do I win the roses?
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

DanG

TR, ain't nobody gonna send no roses to an old crab like you. ::)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Texas Ranger

Crab apples, maybe?  If I'm right on the plants, one of em makes real good wine and jelly.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Tom

You "may" be right and you "may" be wrong, but Haw!, you are going to be a thorn in WDH's side.  :D :D

Bro. Noble

Tom,  What are you trying to tell us?  You think that's one of 'gum bemelia's ' relatives?
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Tom

I don't know what it is, Br'er Noble.  What I think it is it ain't, What I thought it were, it tweren't.  the leaves leave me questioning.  Are they smooth or serrated?  I've nailed it down to as many things as there are in the book.  That bulemic what'cha-ma-callit, I never heard of, A hawthorn has different leaves, Olive leaves questions, Ogeechee tupelo just ain't quite right.  One thing is for sure, WDH is right.  The bark didn't help a bit.  :D

SwampDonkey

Looks like Indian-cherry (yellowwood), a species of buckthorn. Rhamus caroliniana  ???
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

tcsmpsi

Hmmmm.....I finally recognized something, from a Missourian I believe, that hinted a note of familiarity in some of that genus mortimus legitimus.    :D



\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

DanG

Aahhhhh!  I love a good mystery.  I'm gonna go with my gut and say the butler did it. ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

WDH

Solved!!

Bro. Noble wins the prize............This is Gum Bumelia, Bumelia lanuginosa.  Good going, Bro. Noble 8).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Your leaves and flowers look different than this source.

http://www.noble.org/imagegallery/woodhtml/Chittamwood.html

Maybe it's because the leaves have just emerged and have not thickened. The flowers seem to be in clusters. This what you guys call 'ironwood' down there?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bro. Noble

That looks like our 'gum bumelia' and ours grows in the sites described.  What we call iron wood grows along the creeks.  There are two similar species that are locally called ironwood,  other names are muscle wood,  blue beech, & hopp hornbeam.  Dad tried to teach me the difference in the two species,  but I can't memember them.  I did remember gum bumelia,  however.  You ever stack the nasty brush from one and you don't forget them :D :D
milking and logging and sawing and milking

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