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How do I get that beautiful grain marking from Sycamore??

Started by chainsaw_louie, April 14, 2007, 08:17:32 PM

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chainsaw_louie

We got 10 sycamore logs here and are ready to start milling.  Can someone tell me the best way to get that beautiful grain pattern in the finished boards.  Does it have to be true quartersawn to get that effect or does it come out with flat sawing?

Thanks

Faron

All I have ever made or seen with the flecks has been quartersawed.  Sometimes some of the riftsawn will show it some.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Tom

It must be quartersawn.

There are, sometimes, interesting patterns in flat-sawn but nothing like you find in the vertical grain of a quarter-sawn board.

Generally flat-sawn's beauty is derived from its color and smooth texture.

Ironwood

Sawed one today. The REAL nice fleck is on the quarter, you can get the other (I am not sure the technical name) interwoven ropeiness look of some Mahogany I have seen, anywhere in any given log  (from my limited experience) I wish I knew the term for the interwoven graining?  The ropeiness occurs at oblique angles longitudinally.

Anyone know the name of this?

           Reid


There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

WDH

Since the rays radiate out from the center of the tree to the bark, if you flat sawed the log, you would be slicing the wood perpendicular to the axis of the ray.  It shows up in the flatsawn face as a small line.  If you slice the log exactly thru the middle, you are now sawing parallel to the rays, in fact you are sawing the rays open in same axis that the rays run.  That is when the ray fleck is revealed.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WDH

Reid,

I have only heard it referred to as interlocked grain.  One year, the wood cells that are put down do not run exactly vertical.  Instead, they grow canted at an angle.  The next year, the cells cant at the same angle in the opposite direction.  This shifting of the angle occurs year after year for the life of the tree.  When wood is sawn on the quarter or the rift, this varying angle in each growth ring shows up as distinct ribbon striping.  In fact, if you look closely at two adjoining growth rings (ribbons in the figure), you can see how the grain reverses from year to year.  Great for making the tree strong, not so great for drying the boards from the tree straight :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ironwood

WDH,

Yes, ribbon striping is a good descriptive term for this. I understand the FUZZ of he grain (nap) changes. I saw this while in Cuzco, Peru a few years ago. The National Historical presevation guys were leaning Mahagony (with tons of interwoven grain)up against a wall in an "X" pattern to dry before using it (like I have seen historical pictures of people doing that here in the US years ago). The Cuzco crew also had the latest "Yucaliptus scaffolding" held together with rebar wire. I love international travel, it is so fun to see all the differing ways to do things.

             Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

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Ironwood

CUZCO PICS. The guys were working on a home made jointer and homemade tablesaw. We have it so easy.










Reid




There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Larry

I sold some quarter sawn sycamore 10" and wider at $8 per board foot couple of weeks ago...I'm giving away some flat sawn sycamore next week because I can't move it.

I'll have to put a few pictures in my gallery...some buyers mistake it for lacewood which is not native to us.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Larry




I've not seen the ribbon striping you guys are talking about.

Chainsaw_louie, make sure you level the log so the rings are at right angles to the blade both where it enters and exits the log.  If you don't you will have fleck on one end and nothing on the other end of the board.  Mark the boards as they come out of the log...somebody will want book matches.  As most light colored woods sycamore will sticker stain if dried to slowly.  Have dry sticks on hand and a place to stack it out of the weather to maintain the best color.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

chainsaw_louie


ARKANSAWYER


  I think sickymore looks better with black lines added.




But then a good fleck is nice as well.


ARKANSAWYER

WDH

Larry,

Look at your pic that you posted.  Look horizontially. The ribbon striping show up if you look at it the right way.  There are about four ribbon stripes in your pic.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Larry

Learn something new every day round here.  Now that I can hang a name on that pretty stuff it oughta be worth nother buck a foot. :D ;D :D ;D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Slabs

Larry

I heard a rumor some years ago that C. F. Martin was doing acoustic tests on Sycamore to replace Brazilian Rosewood since they quit exporting the raw product.  Not sure about either rumor but after seeing that sample you showed in your first pic I could understand why.  That's some really beautiful wood.

Arky

That wood in the second pic of yours would look real good on the back of a "Flat Top" too.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

Tony

I've got some QS sickymore also. What would be a good finish to put on the wood  to  bring out the grain  even more?  ???  ie. what's the best finish to show it off  ??? ??? ???

                                                    Tony  8)
TK1600, John Deere 4600 W\frontendloader, Woodmaster718 planer\moulder, Stihl MS461 Stihl 036 & 021 & Echo CS-370
"You cannot invade the mainland United States.  There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."  Adm. Isoroku Yamamotto ( Japanese

WDH

I made some drawer parts out of sycamore on a cherry chest of drawers.  I wanted the drawer sides to stand out from the darker cherry.  To pop the grain, I used danish oil and let it dry completely  Beautiful.  I would post a pic but the chest of drawers is 140 miles away living with one of my daughters...............However, if it was a show piece, I would have added a couple of coats of satin poly to protect the wood.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Justin L

A non-yellowing finish like conversion varnish or precat lacquer will keep the color whiter. Talc is used to make satin & semigloss sheen, so a full gloss will let more wood show especially on curly woods.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Justin L on April 16, 2007, 09:58:40 PM
A non-yellowing finish like conversion varnish or precat lacquer will keep the color whiter. Talc is used to make satin & semigloss sheen, so a full gloss will let more wood show especially on curly woods.

Excuse the HIJACK but a question for you Justin...

I'm getting ready to refinish a floor that has inexpensive parquet flooring. I've decided to use gym finish after sanding the old finish off and prepping the floor properly (fill all cracks, then sand to final smoothness with 180 - 200 grit.

The problem is that my wife does not want a high gloss finish. Your reference to using talc makes me think that I can cut the final finish down by adding it to the gym finish. Do you know if this will work and / or if there's another alternative that would work better?

The goal is a durable, easy to maintain low gloss floor that will hold up until I replace the flooring using flooring I mill myself...


Ironwood

PC,

Why not use a conversion varnish (post catalyized) in a dull. I use M.L. Cambell (brand)Duravar (procuct)"dull". Extremely durable and dries quick

     2 cent, Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Justin L

I don't see why the talc wouldn't work, but I would do some samples before doing the whole floor. Another option would be to scuff it after it dries- kind of like the fine furniture makers do before rubbing it out to high gloss. A hand rubbed floor finish? OK, bad idea...

I don't think you would want to spray the finish on because of the overspray, and the conversion varnish needs to be sprayed because it dries quickly. Don't they make a semigloss or satin floor finish?

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! :)

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Justin L on April 17, 2007, 01:40:27 PM
I don't see why the talc wouldn't work, but I would do some samples before doing the whole floor. Another option would be to scuff it after it dries- kind of like the fine furniture makers do before rubbing it out to high gloss. A hand rubbed floor finish? OK, bad idea...

I don't think you would want to spray the finish on because of the overspray, and the conversion varnish needs to be sprayed because it dries quickly. Don't they make a semigloss or satin floor finish?



Doing a sample is definately a good idea. I have a few pieces of the flooring left over from the initial installation and I'll try it on that.

I used a regular floor finish on another room a while back and did not like the result. I know that gym finish will do a better job but I need to knock the gloss down a bit. "Scuffing" it is a possibility, but first I will try the sample using talc.


Larry

Minwax Super Fast-Drying Polyurethane for Floors Professional Formula comes in gloss, semi-gloss, and I don't know what else.  Gets high marks from the local professional floor guys and on top of that it is cheaper than some of the other stuff I have used.  I buy it at Sherwin Williams.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Fla._Deadheader


When we were in the Vinyl welding business, we sprayed Lacquer. If the normal glossy finish was too shiny, we could add a little dab of "duller" ???  My brain is not working well, anymore, but, you could buy it at nearly any paint store. Just mix a dab into the paint and spray. Took very little, and we could control the amout of dull, satin, or semi-gloss that we needed.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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