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Author Topic: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?  (Read 5930 times)

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Offline sukosaki

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Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« on: April 13, 2007, 02:57:53 pm »
I know the value of timber varies, I did search the forum for a link or any information for my area (Crivitz, WI), but was unsuccessful.  Can anyone point me in the right direction of any sawmills or price tables online?

I also Googled the terms for about 2 weeks and haven't been able to come up with anything.  I figured it was because the prices change, but then I found this forum and thought I would give it a shot.  Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

I had a forrester come and take a look at my trees.  Mostly White Maple, Red Maple and some Oak.  A ton of Aspen as well.  Hope this info helps.  I was thinking of getting everything over 10 inches logged.  If anyone has any tips for a new wooded land owner that would be great as well.

Thank you.
John Sukowaty
Sheboygan Falls, WI
Recreation Land Location: Crivitz, WI

Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 03:16:19 pm »
I recommend you do lots more reading on this forum before you log anything.   :)

What did your forester recommend?
 That expression "everything over 10"  is going to upset almost everyone here   :o it can easily lead to high-grading, which spoils the quality and future value of your forest for a very long time.

Welcome to the Forum

More info and advice will follow  :D  ;)

Offline beenthere

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 03:23:01 pm »
sukosaki
Welcome to the forum.
For starters, contact the WI DNR and get in touch with your District Forester. He/She will be a big help with advice for your local area.
There are consulting foresters that will also help, and likely will get references from the DNR forester. They may have more input to give you on that 10" diameter limit you are thinking about, as it may be different depending on your goals for your wood lot.

In WI, there is a Wisconsin Woodland Owners Association, that you may enjoy, as many other woodland owners have similar interests, questions, and goals. Knowledge that you seek is available.

We'd be interested in what information you did get from the Forester you contacted already.

Lots of help here. Pull up a stump (at least 10"  ;D) and join in.  :)
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Offline sukosaki

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 03:33:24 pm »
Well, the forrester from my county that stopped by, can't remember her name, recommended that I could take 10" and up pretty easily and not hurt the growth or "woodiness" of my lot.  I mentioned to her that privacy is a must.  She noticed many, many young trees that wouldn't be able to mature with the large trees in the way.  To me, it made some sense.

My lot is just over 7 acres.  The trees are super tall and straight, I just thought that I could make some money early on and enjoy watching the many, many young trees fill in.  I will do my best to read up in the forum.  It appears to be filled with tons of professional information.

She also gave me a list of recommended loggers in the area to contact.  Some will rip up my land to get whatever trees they want, others will select cut and take care of my property.  Just so I don't upset anyone here, I have already decided on the select cut and take care of my property option  ;)

Thanks again!
John Sukowaty
Sheboygan Falls, WI
Recreation Land Location: Crivitz, WI

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 03:39:47 pm »
You could try 'Wisconsin stumpage prices' in a Google search.

As suggested with the diameter limit or minimum of 10 inches your going to get a high graded woodlot. If your going to thin aspen, for example, keep in mind that most often aspen is even aged and those 6 inch suppressed ones are as old as the 14 inch dominant ones. There are exceptions of course if the aspen is regenerated from patch cuts, and the residual aspen surrounding the patches are left. Wood should be harvested to improve the overall quality of the stand by removing as much low grade wood as possible along with a few good trees so as not to cause decline or lower the overall value of the residual stand. Often we have to leave some poor trees to help the good ones survive and be healthy. Removing too many trees could lower the stand integrity.  It would be nice to have all perfect trees, but the reality is there are way more poor ones in some regions of the country. We can't limit our harvesting to only cutting poor quality trees, we have to cut some good ones to. Making a decision to cut a certain percentage of good trees should be based on the current quality of the stand. It may not be the time to cut many nice ones if the current stand has been high graded badly in it's recent history.

Decisions, decisions. ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 04:48:01 pm »
Just be advised that the current market conditions right now are down.  If money isn't a factor, then I'd sit back and wait for markets to rebound before I'd cut timber. 
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Offline sukosaki

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 05:11:30 pm »
Looks like all good information.  Thanks for the information on the Aspen trees.  I will be sure to figure that into all the decisions I have coming.

"Wiconsin Stumpage Prices" -- is that what "getting money for my timber is technically called"? 

It's amazing what you find online when you have the right terms.  Thanks again!
John Sukowaty
Sheboygan Falls, WI
Recreation Land Location: Crivitz, WI

Online thecfarm

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2007, 05:37:20 pm »
I feel you should wait at least a year.Take your time and look things over.I am glad you got a forester to help you out.That list of loggers she gave you,use it.Go to at least 3 jobs of each and see what kind of work they do. Talk to the land owners too.Avoid a problem before it starts.I just had a logger in here for the second time.He does a real nice job.I tell people some of the things he does and they think he just putting a show on for me or I'm lying.Don't matter to me,he was here about 6 months total and the woods are just the way I wanted it done.Not a lot of trees barked up,or knocked over.What damage is done to trees are cut down and hauled out.I was doing it,but would of never got it done.I feel with 7 acres you should have whatever trees you want cut done the first.No sense in going in 2-3 times and knocking everything down all over again.And with 7 acres they may not cut some,but want to do it all.Just depends on the value of the trees.
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Offline J_T

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 08:20:58 pm »
If you dont need the cash keep on reading here and you will get sawdust fever  :D :D And get you a sawmill  ???
Jim Holloway

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2007, 09:18:45 pm »
7 acres is not a big tract.  So, from a commercial forestry standpoint, it has low potential.  I would hesitate to cut it down to 10".  It will take decades to grow back to a merchantable stand.  Instead, think about making that 7 acres look as good as it can look by selecting the very best trees to leave and cut the rest.  Those very best trees will continue to grow and increase in value. 

Another point that I would like to stress is that it took decades to grow those trees that are 10", 11 ', 12" etc.  They are not really large enough for grade sawtimber.  So what will happen if you cut to a 10" diameter limit is that all those tree that grew for decades to get just about ready to grow up and be sawtimber will be cut just short of their potential and you will get paid a pulpwood price (which is peanuts).  Why take such a small price for something that took 30 years to produce and is just about ready to really take on value as a higher grade product once it gets a little bigger?  If they are of the desired species, those 10", 11", 12", etc. trees are the trees that you should leave, not cut.  Think about raising the limit on the diameter cut.  If that does not result in enough trees for a merchantable harvest, they are not ready to harvest anyway. 
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Offline sukosaki

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2007, 09:34:35 pm »
Ok, I understand what you are saying.  I should go with larger diameter logs first, if they are specific types.  I would like to just leave it as is for now, cause I love the thick woods, but the larger ones may pose more of a risk (falling) in the nasty windy storms we get in the summer.  Does this make sense?

Thanks again to everyone, you have been a tremendous help.
John Sukowaty
Sheboygan Falls, WI
Recreation Land Location: Crivitz, WI

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2007, 10:39:01 pm »
Is there any evidence that the larger trees are being blown over in high winds?  If so, you should see some blown over trees.  If not, I would not worry too much about it unless you build a house in the middle of it.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 06:35:41 am »
A lot depends on what you're looking to get in years down the road.  The art of forest management is not in what you take, its in what you leave.  That's concept #1.

Concept #2 is that size is not an indicator of age.  That one's hard for people to grasp.  An even aged stand can have a vast difference in size classes.  A lot depends on which tops got into the overstory.

Concept #3 is that growth only takes place through crown expansion.  A goal for a thinning is to open up the crowns so that they can expand.  Thin too hard and you can get wind throws and epicormic branching.  See concept #1.

Since you have a rather small parcel, you should be trying to grow the absolute best quality of wood that you can.  You can get someone to harvest quality stems, its hard to get someone to harvest low quality for fiber. 

You should be looking to removing the worst first.  This will mean that you should be taking out suppressed trees, poorly formed trees, and trees that aren't in the species mix of higher quality trees.   Then you look to the bigger trees for removal only if you are giving a crop tree the ability to have crown expansion.  Crop trees are left for additional growth.

 

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Offline Phorester

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Re: Timber To Be Logged - How much can I get?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2007, 09:26:29 pm »
We are at a disadvantage in that we cannot see the forest situation you have and talk with you about what you are trying to achieve with this property.

"Ok, I understand what you are saying.  I should go with larger diameter logs first, if they are specific types."

An emphatic NO.  Get away from size of the trees. 

Think TREES TO LEAVE FOR THE FUTURE instead. 

Ron explained a few good, basic forest concepts in his last message.

A timber sale needs to be a part of a plan of management for your property. Before you even think of having a timber sale, you first need a forest management plan written by a professional forester working for you to see if a timber sale is even needed.  Did the lady Forester do this for you?  If not, ask her to write one. If for some reason she doesn't want to or is not allowed to by her Agency policy, then ask her for a consulting forester you can employ to write one for you.

Do not have a forester who can buy your trees write the plan for you.  This is a conflict of interest.  He has a vested interest in cutting your trees.  You want a forester who will give you objective advice on what forest management practices are needed on this property.

A forest management plan consists of two main parts:  the first part is the biology of the forest itself.  Soil types, tree species, growth rates, insect and disease problems, etc.  The second part is what you want to accomplish in your woods.  Are you looking for a pretty house lot?  Want more songbirds? Want more squirrel, more deer, etc? Is your main objective to have the healthiest forest possible?  A combination of some of those?

A forest management plan outlines the current forest situation, states where you want to go with it as the landowner, then gives recommendations on how to get it from what it is now to what you want it to be.  A timber sale may or may not be one of the recommendations.
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