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fastenmasters loghog or Spikes?

Started by surfsupinhawaii, April 12, 2007, 12:43:17 PM

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surfsupinhawaii

I am trying to decide which fastener to use. I was set on using spikes on a log home I am going to build. The logs are swedish cope 8'' w/ stacking height of 6 1/2''. I was going to pre-drill then set the spike so I could have some drift for log settling. I have been reading more about the loghog and olylog fasteners and just wondering if these are better than the spikes. Seems like they would pull down the log a lot more than a spike. If I used the screw would I have to pre-drill? ( they say you dont) are they good for settling logs? I have built other homes, but this is the first log home, I wanted to know what everyone else preferred. Also wondering about the insulation between the logs. Caulking or insulation strips? Thanks again for all of the help in the past and future :)

Don P

Anything is better than a spike, pound one end of a chair rocker down, go to the other end and pound it down, this end now pops up, insert appropriate swear words.

Olys have more pull, loghogs have more still, they are slightly larger and have a larger head. They do not need to be prebored but imagine several fasteners at slightly different angles and then try to figure how that could settle  ;).

Lags have more pull yet but require a prebore with counterbore for the shank, head and washer. The prebore is usually 1/8" oversize.

Threaded rod is another way, through the entire stack. Some people put 1000 lb springs on top of them, I kinda doubt thats enough to do much, but whatever  :).

firecord

Hey Don
What's the purpose of the springs?

beenthere

surfsupinhawaii

The settling is the shrinkage of individual logs, so allowance for settling should be incorporated in whatever fasteners are used.    As Don P mentioned, (at least my interpretation) was that the angles of the fasteners could just suspend the individual logs, so they cannot settle when they shrink.

Attempting to pull the bend out of a warped log may be more trouble than it is worth, i.e. it may not be possible ( I think Don P was suggesting that as well  :) )

Good luck in your decision.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Don P

Firecord, The springs are supposed to pull down on the log stack as it shrinks and keep the lateral, horizontal, joints tight. They couldn't hurt. We've been having a lively discussion on another website on this, I calculated that the springs add a few psi to the load. A threaded rod is probably ultimately the strongest fastener to put in a wall but many smaller fasteners is certainly something to consider. Myself I like a lag, I can locate, align and snug each location as I go. If you get into this with a roomful of builders you better bring lunch  :).

To give you an idea, our old furniture press pushed down on a headboard with 75,000 pounds of force to get the horizontal seams tight enough to glue

firecord



Ok Don, suspose you cut out sections of top log to access the rod/nuts and tighten on a quarterly bassis.  You could cut square plugs to cover nut access point.  Good idea yes or no?   

I'm not too good with Sketch Up yet!   LOL

Don P

That would work, I've done threaded rods without springs a couple of times, in both instances I got access in either the crawlspace or behind a removeable crown trim in the basement, I'd look in that direction first.
One reason I like to use lags is that I can snug down the entire log course I'm on before proceeding. With threaded rod you are making the assumption that you can snug the entire stack down. That usually works. I have had some real cussers though. Michelle had a 5 lag "zipper" on a milled SYPine house this past year trying to work a twist down, one lag popped and 4 more let go, sounded like we were under attack  :D.

We did use lags and threaded rod on one job, that house was hit by Fran the following year with no real damage, it flattened or severely damaged everything else on the farm. We had added the rods as an extra measure, the hurricane came in 20 mph above our print's design, I didn't regret the rods one bit.

TW

Both here and in Sweden people traditionally use 1 1/2 inch wooden pegs. The pegholes are drilled through one log and well past the center of the next log. Then the peg is driven in with sledgehammer. The peg is made from slow grown spruce or pine and has a section that is either oval or like a drawn out octagon. The both ends of the peg are chamfered to steer it in the hole and to prewent it from splitting. The peg is placed so that the longer diameter is in the grain direction of the log. That makes it possible to make very tight pegs without risking to split the log. The hole depth should be measured and marked on the peg, less a few centimeters. Then the peg is driven to the mark. This leaves room for the logs to shrink and settle. My experience from reassembling and repairing old houses is that the pegs pull down the logs very well and prevents the logs from twisting.
Traditionally there is a peg in each end of all logs, and logs longer than about 5 or 6 metres should have a peg in the middle too. Extra high or long walls should have plenty of extra pegs.
Nowadays some people use spikes or lag bolts but they do not seem to stabilize the walls nearly as well as the oldfashioned pegs. A lag bolt does press down the log only for a short time until the log has started to shrink. Then it becomes a weak iron peg. The snow does compress the walls every winter and the ceiling and roof helps too.

This is my way and my oppinion but of cause I may be wrong. I am no full time professional.

jokers

Quote from: Don P on April 12, 2007, 03:07:43 PM
Anything is better than a spike, pound one end of a chair rocker down, go to the other end and pound it down, this end now pops up, insert appropriate swear words.

Olys have more pull, loghogs have more still, they are slightly larger and have a larger head. They do not need to be prebored but imagine several fasteners at slightly different angles and then try to figure how that could settle  ;).

Lags have more pull yet but require a prebore with counterbore for the shank, head and washer. The prebore is usually 1/8" oversize.

Threaded rod is another way, through the entire stack. Some people put 1000 lb springs on top of them, I kinda doubt thats enough to do much, but whatever  :).
I helped a friend build a cabin from an Apalachian kit. The logs were white pine and we used Oly bolts and the threaded rods with springs per the kit specs. Don makes an interesting point about the potential resistance to settling caused by several fasteners being at opposing angles but my buddy hasn`t got any problem with gaps developing(5+ years), although he hasn`t had to tighten the springs much either, past the first year.

We drove the Oly bolts using 14v cordless drills with no problems whatsoever. I forget exactly how long they were but the logs were 8" so the bolts must have been 10" or so. We used a couple of extra cases of `em.  ;D

Don P

The comment on twisting is another I've wondered about along the same lines as fasteners at different angles, how much friction does it cause. We do not have much of a snow load but think about a gable in a open vaulted room, no roof or ceiling weight. There I can see the threaded rod with provision for tightening has alot going for it.

I see the stiffness the wooden dowel would give and it won't sweat, there's alot to be said for that. The only attempt I've seen to make the steel stiffer in section is to use pipe driven into similar holes.

In the same unloaded Mcmansion gable, this is where wind design is tough. I like to see the header logs capable of acting as a beam resisting the wind's thrust. This can require quite a beam.

sbishop

I was going to post the same question...but have been following this thread to see what the opinions are.

I'm going to be building this summer with black spruce logs 6" or so.  I was planning on using 12" spikes but after visiting with Pappy last weekend he mentionned screws like the oly ones. Do you think those screws would be able to keep the logs in place..especially when the logs are fresh not dried?

Sbishop

Don P

Yup, they'll work. Run them all straight, if it dodges and takes an angle, back out and try another spot nearby, that goes for any fastener if you want to allow things to settle freely. Avoid spiral grain as much as you can.

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