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Standing dead pine

Started by brooksmill, April 04, 2007, 12:49:01 PM

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brooksmill

My question for all you experienced millers is ( I have a lot of standing dead pine.  I cut down a few and it looks to be good for framing.  Whats your experience???  I thought I would cut all dead trees first before cutting doun the live ones.)

sawguy21

IMHO, the standing dead would be too brittle for framing. Here the mills are trying to salvage as much beetle killed pine as possible but a lot of it is splitting or breaking.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

LedlieLogs

I second Sawguy. I milled a ton of the beetle kill down here. We used it for concrete forms for fish beds we were making in the lake bed. It would check and split as soon as you cut it. We would cut longer than we needed and back trim to wood that might work. This wood only had to hold concrete till it dried. It was then under water within a few days.
I don't think I would use beetle kill for framing. I do not have knowledge of standing dead from other cause of death. If it is not beetle kill cut one up and see what you got.
Ledlie
P.S. Before you guys hammer me, the fish sleep great in there new beds. We got em new sheets and everything.
Wildlife Action, GA. A great place for kids. No lights, no phone, no motorcars, not a single luxury. Just the GREAT OUTDOORS and the reason I am learning to mill and build small log cabins.

tcsmpsi

brooksmill,

I would say it depends on the particular tree. 

I try to keep a close eye and cut the dead pines as soon as I recognize their demise.  I don't have any trouble with them.  Sometimes, I miss one and it might be a while before I recognize it.  I don't have any trouble with them either, unless they are deteriorated beyond their usefulness. 

I use them for framing, and it is better than the majority of what can be purchased.

Cut some and see how it works out. 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Tom

I've sawed a lot of naturally downed SYP that has ended up in houses and barns, bug damage and all.  Some of the logs have been down for years and are pristine.  Some of them have been down for months and are unusable.  I have no good answer as to why, but it tells me that one must be selective and not make wide ranging generalizations.  :)

beenthere

brooksmill
As Tom says, all depends on the condition of the wood. If there is no decay, should not be a problem for use as framing. Dry wood from a standing dead tree is just that......dry wood, from what I understand. If bug killed and dry, true it's a bit less resilient to felling shock and rough handling, but still will make good framing. A lot of dead wood is in the framing market and one can't tell it from live wood, then kiln-dried wood. (I'll wager ta bet  :) )
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DWM II

A pretty good tattle tale is how bad does it break up when it hits the ground from felling. I have been taking beetle kill for my barn and have passed on some trees that broke up, they were obviously a waste of time. Dont judge it till you saw it up, you dont want to pass on good material and the trees have to come down regardless.
Stewardship Counts!

D Martin

I cut a couple of blowndown pine this winter that were on the ground for a year or two. I almost didnt take them cause the bark was off and the grubs had chewed some holes in em.  They cut easier than the fresh ones I cut in the fall cause ther wasn'nt as much moisture in them to freeze. The grub holes were not as deep as I expected either, by the time it was slabbed they were gone., not as white as the fresh stuff, a lil yellow but no black stain.

pineywoods

Ninety percent of the logs I mill are from standing dead pine, most of it harvested by me. A large part of my home was built using this lumber. The only sure way to tell what's good and whats junk is to put a saw blade to it. Like tom said, there just doesn't appear to be any sound reason why one tree that's only been dead for a month or so will be worthless, while another that's been dead for a year or longer, lost all it's bark, yet still be perfectly sound. I suspect the answer may lie in how quickly the tree was killed, suddenly by a massive bug infestation or lightening strike, or slowly over a longer period of time by a more moderate infestation, thus putting the tree under a lot of lingering stress. I just finished milling some loblolly pine that had been killed by a fire. It sawed up very nicely. There are two rules I pretty well stick to---if the needles are still there, although dead, it's good. If there's a pile of dead limbs around the base of the tree, it's a widow-maker, leave it alone.  In any case, felling dead pine is a whole different ball game. Many of the good common sense rules for felling go out the window, mainly because a standing dead pine can be  so un-predictable.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Don K

I'll agree with pineywoods. Most of what I've cut is dead pine. Good stuff mostly. Don't have to wait as long for it to dry either. ;D    Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

WDH

If the brown needles are still on the tree, it should be OK.  If not, that is more iffy.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

WDH, I noticed you have been getting on late every night. This daylight savings time is rough on somebody that has to work at home after their other job huh.    :D :D   Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

WDH

Don,

I must confess.  I am in Vancouver, Washington this week :).  It is only  8:45 p.m. out here!  That is not late ;).  Well, my body says it is tired :o.  You can't fool mother nature.

Don't work too hard at Stew's ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

MS may not be the same after Friday.  :D :D  Then later on we will work on Bama, who knows we might even come to GA. It'll be The Reconstruction all over again.  ;D ;D
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

Naw Don, MS is used to you Bama boys.  :D We just work ya and feed ya.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

I need to work, didn't you see where AL is the fattest state in the nation. I guess we got too much good southern cooking. They don't call us AlaFriedBama for nothing.
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

I'll try to remember to let you stretch before I work you. I guess I'll have to bake your fish.  :D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

snowman

In my neck of the woods we are having a bark beetle epedemic, the enviros call it beatlemania ::), anyway thats another story. For many years now I've been falling beetle trees for the big sawmills and i know for sure it goes to their stud mill.I've been cutting dead and dying grand fir for post and beam barn i'm building and it's beautiful wood and looks very sound.You have to get it before it splits and or grows flowers, thats the 2 things to look for. I just made lumber out of a Ponderosa pine i cut down 3 years ago cuz it was growing up in my view. I had no sawmill then and just let it lay. I'ts kinda ripe but as blue as the sky, very pretty, not structualy sound but it will make a great new dining table. My wifes idea. :D

fuzzybear

   90% of what I run is firekilled and beatle kill.  Out of every 100 trees I get 2-3 that go into the firewood pile. This year will probable be the last year for the firekill, (it's already 4 years old). What's left at the wood lot will become cabin logs or firewood.
   The main thing I cut is 8x8 and 10x10 for dunnage but it still holds up houses and BIG equipment without any problem. The 2x material I cut is being used for building homes with no problems.
   I say cut into it and see whatcha got. Have fun!
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

ely

i use it all the time for every sort of lumber . no problems for me. just cut it up you can tell quick if its too far gone.

TexasTimbers

It has to be a case-by-case basis because obviously many of the sawyers here are able to use it and many are not.

I have posted recent questions regarding pine I have allowed to lie around the logyard too long, but i also have had access to dozens and dozens of standing dead for several years, and have tried a few times to use some.

This stuff I have, Loblolly and Slash, it just isn't usable within months. Maybe because a combination of the bugs and high humidity, but I can't use it. And within like 6 months the stuff is basically mush.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

thiggy

The standing dead - kind of reminds me of some of the folks at my office...
:)
Sow your wild oats on Saturday night.  Sunday morning pray for crop failure!

Minnesota_boy

Whether to saw a dead standing pine or not will depend on the species and YOU have to know your pines.  In this area we have 3 pines.  Standing dead jackpine is usually not worth sawing because of the prevalence of red rot.  If it is big enough to be worth sawing and died, it usually is red rot almost to the bark.  Red pine can be or not.  If it still has all its needles, it fine.  Not as strong as if it were cut green, so choose the application to fit its strength.  Once the needles are gone, expect to see some soft spots in the log.  Again, you can use it but it will be much poorer quality.  Once that tree has no needles left and the fine branches start to fall, it isn't even good firewood.  Eastern white pine is fine for many years after it has died.  It rots from the outside in and that wood not rotted is about as strong as that which is sawed green.  A big tree that has stood dead for several years will have a lot of waste, but if you saw and sort carefully, it has lots of salvage too.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

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