Consumption Diesel/Gas Woodmizer

[Wolfgang]

Dear Forum users,

we will buy a Woodmizer LT40HDD but we havn´t decided yet the engine type. The price difference between Diesel (34hp)and Gas Engine (28hp) is about $4,400. We will process pine wood with the sawmill on 250 days a year. Has anybody detailed information about the consumption of both engines? What about the vibrations of both engines? Does the gas engine run smoother or the diesel and may affect this the cutting quality? Also we will work in areas with roads in very bad conditions. Maybe the weight of the diesel engine will cause any harm during the ransportation to the sawmill?

Does anybody own the LT40HDD with the 28HP gas fuel engine who wants to share his fuel consumption experience?

Duty station for the sawmill is in the Dominican Republic.

Thank you for your help/comments.

[farmerdoug]

I think there is a few questions you need to answer first.

You said softwoods but what size of lumber are you cutting?
What quality fuel is available readily?
Since you are a little outside of woodmizer probable parts supply, which engine would you be able to repair and get parts locally for?

Farmerdoug

[Wolfgang]

Hi Farmerdoug,

the dimensions are up to 20", but generally between 6 and 12", The quality of gas fuel here is international standard, the quality of diesel is poor (example: modern economic diesel motors doesn´t work here). But there are diesel WOODMIZER sawmills working in the country without problems with the diesel quality.
There is no part supply problem here. There is a local representation (authorized dealer) of WOODMIZER nearby. That´s one of the main reasons why we want to buy that brand.
I think that the power of the gas engine is enough, but generally gas engines consume more than diesel ones. Do you have any details of that?

Wolfgang

[Dave Shepard]

You will have to operate for quite a while just to save enough on fuel to pay the extra $4400 purchase price. I would think there would be a substantial performance advantage to the diesel, as well as longer life. I am sorry I don't have figures on economy.


Dave

[LT40HDD51]

Welcome to the Forum, Wolfgang.

...What about the vibrations of both engines? Does the gas engine run smoother or the diesel and may affect this the cutting quality? Also we will work in areas with roads in very bad conditions. Maybe the weight of the diesel engine will cause any harm during the ransportation to the sawmill?...

There arent any big differences between the gas and diesel engines as far as vibration during sawing is concerned. You will get more power out of the diesel (waaay more torque) and would notice a difference sawing the bigger stuff. Gas will do the job just fine, diesel will do it a bit faster without working as hard.

The weight isnt a big factor, either. WM engineered the mills to handle the powerplants they install on them. I have, on my own mill, ran a ratchet strap around the saw head to the frame and snugged it up for long drives over rough woods roads and the like. Always remember to transport it with the clutch engaged, and remember to disengage it before firing it up  ;).

I dont have any fuel consumption figures either, Wood-Mizer could probably give you something to work with. But I agree with Dave, long time to get the diesel paid for strictly from the better fuel economy. On the other hand, diesel is not as explosive as gas and doesnt evaporate as much in storage...

I know with my 51 horse Cat, I can burn a bit more than a tank in an 8 hour day. Id like to hear other peoples fuel economy with their gear, too. How about a Cat diesel edger?

[DWM II]

I can cut in the area of 1200 bd/ft per 3 gal. tank on my 91 model lt40 hyd. Its got a reto-fitted Kohler 27 hp gas engine. It varies a bit from hard wood to soft wood depending on thickness of cut as well. I do find it has plenty of power, but I dont cut for a living. ;)

[jackpine]

I have the 25 hp Kohler on a 2000 mill and rule of thumb is between ¾ and 1 gal. per hour of running time. Varies with type and size of wood as well as how hard I'm pushing the mill.

[Brucer]

With a 28 HP Kohler, over the past year I have averaged 10 Engine-hours and 1500 Board Feet for every tank (18 Litres of fuel consumed).

My next Wood-Mizer will have a diesel engine ;D.

[customsawyer]

My first mill was a LT40 with the 42 hp Diesel it would burn about a gal per hr in hard sawing. I now have the LT 70 with the 62 hp diesel and it takes about 1.5 gal per hr in hard sawing but I figure even at $3.00 per gal diesel price that is still only $1.50 per hr more for the increase in production. If you look back at other post all the advice always says the same thing "get as much hp as your pocket book can afford" and I think that is very true. You will not hear a sawyer say "I just have too much power on that mill I wish I had gone with a smaller engine".

[derhntr]

I have the 28 hp gas on a 2006  LT40HD28G, I get 6-8 hours per 6 Gal tank full, I saw mostly by my self so I have lots of idle time while stacking, tailing. Sometimes the  28hp is just enough to handle some of the whitepine I have cut. Up to 38" on the butt. Could have use mor hp on that tree.

Brian

[amberwood]

I have the 40hp Lombardini turbo diesel.....super economical @ only 10L per day..half a tank. I heard an intersting description of this engine the other day whilst chasing down the gremlins.."like most italian machinery it works wonderfully when well tuned but is a monster when it goes off song" or something to that effect.

Fingers crossed that CAT $$$ conversion is not required a for a lot longer yet.

DTR

[farmerdoug]

Since you have good local Woodmizer support and diesels work fine with the local fuel I would go diesel. 
Like it has been stated you have the HP for the wider cuts and you will be sawing alot of time with it.  To me diesels work longer without major repairs if maintained.  Parts can be a little more exspensive though but you want a mill that will be cutting daily so go diesel.
I do not know how long it will take to recover the cost difference on fuel savings but with tractors diesel wins every time.

Farmerdoug

[sparks]

Here are the engine specs you were asking about.

[LT40HDD51]

Hmmmm... only slightly higher fuel consumption with the diesel, higher blade speed even with the lower high end engine speed (faster cutting with the extra torque), and check out the oil capacity... Twice the oil in the Cat, they are an extreme duty rated engine... May prove to be better in your probably harsher-than-average use...

[sparks]

The alternator output is wrong on the 28hp. it should read 105 amp.   Thanks

[Wolfgang]

Thank you all for your comments and information, especially to sparks who resumed the engine specs.
Now we have the information to make the (i hope so right) decision.

Wolfgang Sauren

[Minnesota_boy]

I think you'll find that it's hard to make the wrong decision. 

[Gustavo]

cost /hour  =galons/hour+engine manintence

diesel  engines are cheaper  in dolars/hour   than  gasoline

but  manintene   are expensive  (filters. oils. inyectors . inyection pump)

ask for the forum   how many  hours is the average live of each engine

and put this number in the ecuation

 

[kderby]

I purchased the 28hp Kohler with two considerations.  The air cooled engine was lighter.  I am also remote and travel on rough roads so the lighter engine made sense.  Second, I mill primarily softwoods similar to the size you described.  The 28 horse works very well.  I do not feel short of power at all.

I purchased the Accuset and love it.  I have a debarker and love it.  I do want an auto-clutch.  Skip the diesel and spend the money on that option.

How are you going to deal with blade sharpening?

Good luck and welcome to "The Club" 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Gilman]

Go with what ever you think will be the most dependable in your enviroment.  No sawdust = no money.  The purchase price is a tough decision when you first purchase equipment, it's really painfull when it's not running.  The fuel price stinks when you're filling up in the morning/evening but I'd pay $6.00/gallon for an engine that was guaranteed to run 100%.

I get cought up a lot in the little things of sawing that are costing me money.  Those items are never more than a customer that wants to talk.

(I'm not discouraging talking, that's the price of being your own salesman)

[Dave Shepard]

I would compare the oil change differences between the gas and diesel. I changed the oil in our Onan 24hp yesterday, and it got me thinking. It took three quarts of oil and a filter, and we change every 20-25hours. I attribute the long life of this engine to this(3063 hours). A diesel engine should go at least five times that long, with only about twice the oil. That can add up over the years as well. 3063 hours@20 per change is 153 oil changes. 3063 hours@100hours per change is 30 changes. I don't know what the interval on the Cat diesel is, it may even be 200 hours.


Dave

[BBTom]

I change the oil on my 42HP kubota every 500 hours if it needs it or not.  ;)

I think my normal fuel consumption is about .5 gal/hr.  I have run as much as 2800 Bdft on 5 gal of fuel.

It has almost 3500 hours on it, no problems yet.  Often wondered why WM changed to the perk-Cats, this 42 Kubota suits me so much that I hate to think of upgrading and having to get a yeller engine.   

[Percy]

I change the oil on my 42HP kubota every 500 hours if it needs it or not.  ;)

I think my normal fuel consumption is about .5 gal/hr.  I have run as much as 2800 Bdft on 5 gal of fuel.

It has almost 3500 hours on it, no problems yet.  Often wondered why WM changed to the perk-Cats, this 42 Kubota suits me so much that I hate to think of upgrading and having to get a yeller engine.   

LIke you, I love my 42 hp Kubota. It takes about 8 or 9 hours on the meter to gobble up a tank of diesel. I change oil every 100 hours  though so my savings there isnt that great. I got almost 3200 hours on mine and the only greif it gave me was the throttle cable about a hunnert hours ago. I spoke to a fella who uses the same motor on a differnt aplication(genset) and he has 14,000 hours on his without a rebuild.  ;D ;D ;D

[Dave Shepard]

I also would like an answer on the switch to Cat (Perkins? ). I am sure there is some form of logical explanation, but I'll never buy one. Kubota has a great reputation. I have heard many cases of hard starting about the Cats. My Kubota tractor will start unassisted at -15F without a problem. I'm glad I'm electric.


Dave

[Chris Burchfield]

Engine Oil Change on the D-51 Cat/PerK. is 250 hours. The move from the Lamberdini (?) to the Kubota was part of my hold out. While I was saving money to commit on the Kubota, Woodmizer struck a better Warranty deal with Caterpillar. Perkins who has been manufacturing diesel's along time makes the smaller and provider to Cat. learning all of this is what caused me to get up off the couch.  :D :D :D The Kubota 42 by brand name was something people here in the states recognized. They didn't know anything about the Italian made Lambedini. Not to be confused with Lambergini (?), as in the car. I had some problem in the fall with starting, figured it out via a thread, and have not had a problem since. Working by my self, and a day considered by me to be a hard day, I didn't burn a full tank of fuel. Most of the time, I don't burn a full tank on a two day weekend. I don't have an edger so I'm doing the fletches also.