iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Fire suppresion

Started by Radar67, April 02, 2007, 12:32:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Radar67

I have been considering building a fire suppresion trailer to pull behind my tractor. A 500 gallon tank with a pump. What kind of gpm flow would be best for this? I mainly want something to help controlled burns and brush piles.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Tom

Blue Ox sells one.  I saw it in Moultrie. It looks like the backend of a little fire engine with all the equipment they had on it.  It's a pretty nifty idea.

Texas Ranger

It's not so much the gallons per minute, its more about how it is applied, such as a spray or solid stream, and if you have a wetting agent mixed in with it. On a brush pile a misting would work, but on a real fire more volume and velocity.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Engineer

It's highly dependent on the fire load.  I'd consider a minimum 200 gpm pump.  Typical fire apparatus have between 1000-1500 gpm, some large trucks run 2000 gpm, and our local FD brush truck runs a 350 gpm pump.  You can get away with a lower volume if you have some way to add some kind of surfactant - foam, or even dish soap. 

Radar67

That's the kind of information I was looking for. Looks like I need to consider a larger water tank. Dish soap would be easy to add.  :) I have thought about an adjustable nozzle for spray or stream. I don't plan to fight anything big, but it would be handy to have something for the stray spark here and there while doing a controlled burn. Maybe I could keep something from getting out of control until the real firefighters could get there.  ;)

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Engineer

You could probably get by with 20 gpm and a garden hose if all you're going to do is wet down the edges...

Furby

You don't wanna go to much bigger by way of tank, think about what 500 gallons of water weighs. ;)

Radar67

The edges and spotting are my thought path. As long as it stays within my firebreaks, it can burn all it wants.  :D

4000 pounds does seem like a lot of weight, on level ground, it shouldn't be a problem. ;)

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

Stew, Have you got a tank in mind. Just wanted to let you know I have access to some of those industrial  liquid totes that are on heavy plastic pallets and the aluminum bar cages with 500 to 750 gal. cap.    ;)     ;D     Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

Don, I enjoyed our chat on the land line and look forward to spending the day with you Friday. That tank should fit the bill perfectly.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

BW_Williams

If you could find a used PB18 and foam proportioning system you'd be set.  We have 6 of those on our brush trucks and they are good pumps, but kind of spendy. Your gpms are dependent on your hose and nozzle.

http://www.waterousco.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=28

Honda pumps are good also, and a little more affordable.  Good luck, BWW
Support your local Volunteer Fire Dept.  (not by accident)
Support your local Ski Patrol (by snowboarding:)
Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Radar67

BW, that's a good link. Thanks.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

stonebroke

what you might want to consider is going to a farm auction and buying a old pull behind sprayer. You would have the pump and tank setup and just have to put lines and hand nozzles on it.

Stonebroke

Radar67

That's a fine idea stonebroke. Our farm auctions down here are few and far between. Most local farmers are growing trees or livestock. Up in the northern part of the state, they still do a good bit of crop farming and could well have some good auctions if you know where to go. As for the tank, Don K is trying to get me one REAL cheap  ;D (as in free). That Blue Ox rig Tom suggested is nice, but just a little pricey for no more use than it would get. I saw a pump in my rambling around that connects directly to the PTO on the tractor, just forgot where I saw it though.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Coon

If you would like a few idears on fire supression check out the KMC Firetracker.  The unit is specifically designed to do the job.  I have seen this unit in action in B.C. and it can go where you need it to during a fire.  Heck I even have the info packet on these units and I could look up some of the details if needed.

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

KGNC

There are always a lot of old fire trucks on ebay. Looks like there are about 20 listed right now.  And they seem to go cheap. I check them out every so often but never really considered buying one.

slowzuki

1 x 1.5" hose needs at least 50-65 gpm to be effective and about 65 psi.   If you think you may want more, do the math.  If you have 100 psi, you can add about 300 ft of hose and be ok.

A 2.5" hose needs some training to run and needs about 500 gpm.  Not enough water on a skid to run well.

Best bet for a home job is foam via premix in tank or eductor/dip tube/gear pump etc and 1.5" hose.  Foam is gonna get you farther than anything else.

Don K

Got that   ;D ;D ;D       FREE      8) 8) ;D ;D   tank all lined up for you and will be bringing it special delivery Fri. Morning.  Shipping fees covered by the hauler.    ;)  ;D   As a bonus it has a metal pallet under it for even more durability.   By the way, I might have forget to tell you, It's FREE. ;D   See ya later, Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Don_Papenburg

Would marker foam work as a foam ajent ?  Marker foam is a highly consentrated foam that is used to mark where a farmer has made a spray pass. It will last a half day in ideal conditions . 
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Radar67

Quote from: Engineer on April 02, 2007, 06:34:38 PM
You could probably get by with 20 gpm and a garden hose if all you're going to do is wet down the edges...

That's more what I had in mind. I've got an 8 foot wide fire break all the way around my little piece of land, and the makings of a couple of cross breaks quartering up the whole thing. Like I said earlier, just want something to quench to random spark and keep the area around brush piles moist. I'm not planning on starting a firefighting business :)

Don, we should have a good time Friday. We'll definitely have a full day. Our jaws might be tired before we're done though.  ;D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Sprucegum

Speaking of fire breaks -

How wide should they be?  Did you make it 8 feet on purpose? Will your cross breaks be the same?

How far apart is ideal? How do you maintain the breaks? What critical question did I miss?

Radar67

I made my breaks 8 feet wide because that is how wide the dozer blade was. The cross breaks are the same. I plan to maintain them with a bushhog and a disc. I have 20 acres and the crossbreaks are at about 760 feet on the long sides and 330 feet on the short sides. I don't know what the specs are, but a while back I had a fire get out and forest service came out to cut a fire break to stop the fire. He used a breaking plow on the back of a dozer. When he finished, the break was no more than 4 feet wide and about a foot deep. He did knock down a little wider path with the blade, but didn't scrape the ground with the blade. I'm sure some of the foresters could answer the questions more thoroughly.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

BW_Williams

Spruce, fire breaks are as wide as you need and I've seen some pretty wide ones not hold and some narrow ones work.  Local factors such as aspect, slope, fuel loading, and weather really dictate what you need.  If you could find a local firefighter in your area,  I bet they would be glad to help you determine what's best.  Good luck, BWW
Support your local Volunteer Fire Dept.  (not by accident)
Support your local Ski Patrol (by snowboarding:)
Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Engineer

Quote from: BW_Williams on April 04, 2007, 12:21:20 AM
Spruce, fire breaks are as wide as you need and I've seen some pretty wide ones not hold and some narrow ones work.  Local factors such as aspect, slope, fuel loading, and weather really dictate what you need.  If you could find a local firefighter in your area,  I bet they would be glad to help you determine what's best.  Good luck, BWW

Amend that to read:  find a local firefighter who has experience in wildland fires.  In my area, the local volunteers wouldn't know a firebreak from a picket fence. 

Don_Papenburg

Fire break needs to be three times the size of your tallest plants. Info I got at a burn clinic for  crp plot management .
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Radar67

Quote from: Don K on April 03, 2007, 07:33:31 PM
will be bringing it special delivery Fri. Morning.

Don's delivery service arrived right on time and the tank is just what I was looking for. We did a little bartering and he got a class on pen making out of the deal.

Here he is deep in concentration.


Getting the hang of the tools.


Here he is with the pen he made himself, from start to finish.


We had a good visit and he even pointed out some trees I didn't know I had out on my place. Danny, Don has something to discuss with you.  ;)

Stew

"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

My wife liked the pen. now it's time to start working on that new toy. ??? ;D :D
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

When you say liked, does that mean you need another pen?  :D :D :D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

Naw, she didn't take it and besides it's toolate at night to be scrappin. ;D 

Had a great visit with Stew today. He's only 124 mi. away so we'll have to visit more often. He showed me his mill with all its improvements and we walked over his property, he goy a really nice house place picked out, killed about 2 dozen wasp in his new shed. Don't go in unless you are well armed.  :D  Ate a really good burger at a small country diner while we admire the local scenery and going ons. Went to Pen Making 101 and tried out the blade sharpener and finally tried to eat up all the fried cat fish in MS. I wish Stew's wife had a camera with us. Have you ever seen two grown having brain freezes from eating ice cream too fast?  Great day, I enjoyed myself. Thanks for the invite, Stew.
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

Your welcome anytime Don...now we just have to work out a time for me to come terrorize your neck of the woods.  ;D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

May be we can get WDH involved in a expedition and we both can learn some new tree species.
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

WDH

Hey, I'm a businessman.  I need a pen  :).  If Don K. is going to become an expert pen-turner, well, he will need a bunch of practice  ;D.  Looks like you guys had a good time.  If it was as pretty a day there as it was here, then it must have been a fine day.  A little cold tonight, though.  DanG's beard might freeze off in Augusta :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

If I can get a lesson in pen turning, I will gladly reciprocate with a lesson(s) in tree ID 8).  A fellow has to keep learning you know!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

That is completely doable Danny. I got schooled a little myself today.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

You have to keep an old mind like mine injected with a little fresh knowledge every now and then or it will get moldy. ;D :D
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

WDH

I am back at home!  I need to take Miss Scarlet to the woods tomorrow and enjoy this wonderful spring weather.  I was going to plant the garden tomorrow, but it is too cold.  Oh well, I guess I will have to go roam the woods ;D.  Did you guys get anything significant accomplished except for eatin' that good catfish? :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Don K

Yea I showed Stew that maples do grow in Ms and that he has quite a few and also pointed out a big sycamore in somebodies yard, that if he can figure out how to strap onto that Ranger will surely go missing. :D :D :D
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Radar67

Depends on what you call significant....we drove 6 fence posts, walked a little better than a mile, and unloaded the water tank....does that qualify? Oh, we exterminated some wasp too.  ;D And what Don said too.  :D :D

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

WDH

With all the stories thrown-in-between, that sure sounds significant to me ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Radar67

Now there was a good bit of story swapping going on throughout the day.  :)

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Don K

I'm just glad we got a coupla pics to prove it happened. ;) :D  Gentlemen, my energy drink buzz has wore off and this 20 hr day has caught me I've a dog condo to build tomorrow. I shall checkin with ya'll tomorrow.   Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

BW_Williams

Stew, where's a guy order these pens?  I write sometimes and sometimes it's even legdible :D  BWW
Support your local Volunteer Fire Dept.  (not by accident)
Support your local Ski Patrol (by snowboarding:)
Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Radar67

I sent you a PM BW.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Thank You Sponsors!