Effective signs?

[Jeff]

Tammy and I are finally the owners of a chunk of property in the U.P. just down the road from our family's cabin. Our Friend Lou Kurtis lives across the road and owns just short of a section. Our chunk of the U.P. is 20 acres. Its mostly old growth cedar that Lou says has looked the same since he used to haul hay by it 65 years ago, and Lou said his Dad told him it was old cedar when he was a boy as well. Its really a unique chunk of land that Tammy and I want to preserve and protect as well as utilize without negative impact of what had been there for centuries now.

Lou has told me that we need to post the land because in recent years he has noticed a few locals have came to consider it public property, simply because no one is ever around it, it is not fenced, or does it have signs.  The property also has a power line easement that occasionally becomes a short cut for snowmobiles, but my understanding is that it cannot be fenced off or gated or access restricted to power company for maintenance purposes.

I'm looking for opinions on what kind of signage to use that will be convincing, but not threatening. (no trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot twice) :D

I was thinking simply private property, but I dont know. :-\   The other extreme I was thinking "Forestry Forum Bio Testing Forest"  with the hazardous waste insignia on it. :D

Here is a link on flash earth to the property.
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=46.013312&lon=-84.047213&z=17.8&r=0&src=msl

[oakiemac]

I dont' think any sign will keep out those that are intent on tresspassing. A few "private property" or "no tresspassing" signs will at least keep a few of the more honest people away.
Nice looking piece of land. Now all you have to do is build a little cabin on it and you will be all set.

[WDH]

Boss,

People will take advantage of your property.  Posting it is a paramount.

"Posted.  No Trespassing.  Violators will be Prosecuted" is the most common sign I see in the South.  In some states, you cannot prosecute people for unauthorized use of your land if it is not posted.  Not sure about Meechegen.

[Jeff]

Not sure if we build a little cabin, or even possibly make a bigger leap then that and flat out move some day.  The kids are grown, this house and property values here have increased in value to the point where we could probably sell it and build up there and put the extra in the bank. There is some very nice aspen on the higher ground as well as Larch spruce, white and yellow birch that could be taken with minimal impact to build with.  Ron Scott and I will be making a trip soon so Ron can help me evaluate what we can do to reach our goals. I plan on using these experiences, as a never before forestland owner to create some information for those that come on the forum that need to learn the things I need to learn. Ron and I will document what we do, Kevin is coming down to help me learn some tree safety while taking trees to saw for our future building plans, We have an old fellow up there that is a retired surveyor but still licensed, and we need to have the lines marked so we can as Ron advised, (manage to your property lines). All of these things we try to do and learn, we will document for the Forestry Forum to help people avoid the problems we may encounter along the way, or perhaps answer questions that get answer for us.  I think it will be a great thing.  

The property seems to be almost sent to us. We got an amazing deal on it and things came together like I never could have dreamed possible considering my past luck with anything. :D I want to do my best to keep it a special place.  I was lucky enough to spend most of my deer season on it while my offer was pending the owner let me use it. We are going up this weekend to see what it looks like after a sudden thaw and the break of spring.

[Greenedive]

Congratulations Jeff....there is nothing like owning your own little chunk of paradise. This will be a VERY exciting time for you and the missus...thanks for sharing it with us!!

[LedlieLogs]

Man Jeff, that is GREAT! How good that must feel for you and the wifey. It will of course look different in spring and you will be looking through owners eyes, oh what a beautiful sight! Congratulations. I sold my sign business last year, but I still hate the necessity for them. No advice there, just really happy for you.
Ledlie

[WDH]

It will look different this time because it is yours.................

[Gary_C]

Congratulations Jeff!  That's a great feeling on finding a property like that and I am sure you will will enjoy your time there.

As far as the signs, I would advise going slowly, at least at first. If the users are locals and they get angry because you start out threatening, they can cause a lot of trouble while you are not there. Just some "private property" signs to let them know there is a new owner and even a neighborly visit to the local property owners to introduce youself would be best.

If they don't honor that then 

                                              smiley_bull_stomp

[thecfarm]

I had the same trouble here.Hadn't been anyone living here for 25 years.I posted land out behind the house to keep hunters away.Don't need anyone one shooting towards my house.Had one "group" tell me they have been hunting that land for years and they had a "right" to keep on doing it.I know the family.Been in my family longer than they have been alive.I would be real careful on it from now on anything that is posted.I could post all my land and keep everyone off it.I don't mind people walking,sking or whatever,just don't drive on my land and keep away from the house.It can be kinda hard,but has to be done.I have not had any problems that I know of.

[woody1]

I have a sign on a private road that works great, i'll get a picture. I t says STOP PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESSPASSING NO WARNINGS

[Mooseherder]

Congratulations Jeff and Tammy.  8) 8)

We have 2 signs, on each side of da road(in case dey was lookin' right widda sign on da left) a couple hundred yards in with a convenient turn around so they don't have to go in any further.
Also have one in the Cabin Window just in case they missed the first 2. :D
Although it is hard for us to police. It may keep an honest person honest.
A couple people have asked us if they can hunt there and have granted them permission. Others probably hunt there anyway.  We have dreams on moving there when the time gets right. That place is my motivation everyday. ;)  Good Luck guys.

How bout.  " Da dawg don't bite but da owner might." :D

[moosehunter]

Jeff,
  COOL 8)

When the Mrs. and I bought our acerage a few years ago I went and bought enough posted signs to go all the way around the 62 acres. Our land had also been empty and un-posted for 30+ years. Seemed like everyone hunted there! Including me!
During the first weeks that I was clearing trees to put our home in, Sandy asked if she could put up some signs. Sure I says.
She came back a couple of hours later, I asked howed it go? She handed me about 5 signs " here is whats left" she says. "Oh great, you did the whole property line"! " No, I just did the two roads". 
I went and looked, signs about every third tree :D :D
I have NEVER had any one even ask if they can hunt on our land!
I have had to take alot of good natured ribbing from nieghbors and friends, " Hey, you got enough posted signs up?" :D

mh

[SwampDonkey]

I put up some 'Private Land' signs along a main road. Found one guy a couple years ago tipping my fir and he said he thought it was crown land after driving by a couple signs out front. I knew he was lying and he didn't even have a tipping permit for crown either. Also, he drove across the neighbor's field and over behind a little hump to be hidden from view of the road. He  was a little startled to say the least when he realized I was standing about 20 feet from him when he was snapping tips off my fir.  :

What ever you do Jeff, don't drop off any yard limbs or raspberry canes on the front of your lot when doing yard work around the house. That will just invite people to dump their garbage on your land. I had that conversation with father, but he wouldn't listen. So about a week later I had to post against dumping.  Someone in that span dropped off their old tires, PVC sewer pipes, old asphalt shingles and nail ridden lumber, right next to the raspberry canes. >:(

[Cedarman]

Put signs on posts rather than trees.  Whenever I find one 1 1/2" roofing nail, I look for the other 3 before sawing.

[Jeff]

We discovered the availability of the property last October when I was up hunting. We were dead broke and worse when the sign went up. We had the possibility of some money coming our way if the insurance company ever paid my back comp that they were disputing, but didn't know if or when that would ever happen.

The property has two parcels between me and my sister a typical 80 next to me owned by the farmer down on the corner, and a long 40 next to my sister owned by a fellow in down state Michigan who has become a friendly neighbor to them. My chunk is on the corner. It has a quarter mile frontage on N. Caribou which is paved, and it has an eighth of a mile on Peisley which is gravel. There is an ancient driveway on Caribou that simply ends about 30 feet after it crosses the ditch.

I have a picture of me walking into that drive back in February.


The property also has a 100 foot power line easement that runs from the road corner  and cuts out the back dividing the property with about 2/3rds on one side and a third on the other.  I see this power line as a good thing other then the access problems it creates. Its a ready made clearing for food plots and holds a lot of grouse on its edges.
Here is a photo from when I was hunting, looking down the powerline towards the corner.
   
Everything, as mentioned, just seemed to work out to get it.  I saw the signs go up and I called Tammy to tell her about it on my cell. We had admired the property for years as we drove by it, and I had known of it and watched deer cross into it since I was a kid going to Drummond Island with my dad.  We decided that day to call the realtor and at least inquire. OUCH! Well, what did we have to lose, we made a ridiculous offer on it of less then 1000 an acre two days later after I had walked the property several times.  The Realtor didnt expect the offer to go anywhere as this was prime time to sell land there as hunters were coming up and caribou is the main road of travel via Sault St.Marie and Detour Village.

Two days after we made the offer, we were hit by a big early October snow storm. over 12 inches of wet heavy snow. That was our first break. The snow plow came down the road and just leveled and buried the only for sale sign. Of course I kept my mouth shut. ;D  The sign remained down (realtor should have checked it!) through all of October and deep into November. The seller, not getting any offers other then mine and one other (I offered cash I didnt have the other guy wanted terms and a long land contract), gave me a counter offer. I countered back with 1000 an acre, but said I needed until January 15th to pay as we felt our insurance dispute would be cleared up by Christmas. The fellow accepted (this was a trust sale, the nephew selling for a deceased uncle).  Well, come Christmas, we still didnt have any money and no indication if we ever would. I called the realtor and asked if the seller would give us an extension. He agreed without asking for any more earnest money until the last day of February. After that, he would be open to other offers. Well, as things worked out, we did get enough money the DAY before the deadline. Enough to buy the property, put our well and septic system in here and have a couple thousand left to bank for the times when there is two much month at the end of the money. Originally we were going to pay our mortgage off, but decided this was the way to go as we only have 3 years left until our home is paid off.

Well, we went to the bank to get the check for the property as it had to be to the title company the next day and guess what. The bank put a 48 hour hold on the check we had received. Putting us one day beyond the deadline. We called the realtor, told her the situation which she totally understood, she called the seller, and there was no problem waiting the extra couple days. SO! Long story made shorter, we now own, free and clear 20 acres of woodland for the first time in our lives. Something we always had dreamed of but never saw possible.

The property, if you look it up in google earth, is about two miles as the crow flies to Lake Huron, two miles to the St. Marie river and Lime Island, and about two miles from Canada across the water.

Here is a photo of Tammy standing by a couple of what is a typical cedar on the property.


This I took with the timer during Deer season in November.

[WDH]

I am pleased that y'all could get that property.  There is nothing more relaxing (and tiring ;D) than working out on my property.  Just think, you get to do timber management, wildlife management, and poacher management :D. 

[Jeff]

There is some pretty nice Eastern Larch on the Property that I will keep close tabs on as they seem to have a pretty limited life span in this area.

[Jeff]

Potential bear den I found last deer season created by by a wind thrown cedar. The cavity was plenty big enough for two of me and dry. To bad I obseved there were no bear around during bear season. :D The cedar is bigger then it looks. Probably about 16 inch dbh

[SwampDonkey]

I like old cedar stands that have yellow birch scattered in through them. They tend to be the most productive kind because yellow birch doesn't like it real wet. Sometimes you can find some real monster yellow birch on those sites.  ;D






Some of those old stands are like parkland if there isn't a lot of dead fir on the ground. I aged some cedar like those on dad's old farm and they were 160-250 years old. Since your ground is relatively a small parcel you probably won't need much for roads. Maybe your larch has some saw fly problems. The last 6 or 8 years they have eaten up a lot of larch around here.







It all begins here. ;D

[woody1]

here is one sign I use

[woody1]

Here is the other

[Warren]

Jeff,  First, congrats on the land purchase.  As our local auctioneer says: "Land - they ain't making any more."

Regarding signs.  In my mind, depends on the tone you want to set with the neighbors.  What is customary for the area ?  Do you want to keep ALL people off of it ALL the time, or just some people, or just during hunting season ?  

I lived in a rural area of NE PA for 4 years.  Many families and farms in the same families for generations.  Everyone knew everyone.  Permission to fish or hunt on a farm just required asking.  Everyone viewed the deer as nuisance.  So more deer in the freezer meant fewer deer in the corn or alfalfa.  I can't remember any of the long time residents turning one another down.

OTOH, the area was also succombing to farms being broken up.  Due to close proximity to NYC and NJ, many parcels were purchased by "flat landers" (the typical term of endearment for city folks in that area).  And flat landers typically led to "Jersey Wall Paper" which was the local term for putting up "No Trespassing" signs on every other tree.  Sometimes for the entire road frontage of a parcel.

Definitely, you do not want people dumping trash, or otherwise destroying your property.  But, if you think you will move there someday, might want to consider how the tone and approach of the signage you put up will affect the neighbors.  As some one stated earlier, a sign only keeps an honest man honest.  The no-good-niks will never pay attention to the sign.

But again, congrats on purchasing the property....

Warren

[woody1]

I agree, you have to keep the neighbors happy. Just be carefull, the whole deal got out of control with me. One person brought a friend, then they brought 2 friends and so on. I let friends and neighbors on my property..but no vehicles. Also, I don't mess with posters. I have the property lines marked well. My neighbor dose the poster thing every year, most get torn down.

[Jeff]

The Tamaracks seem to get busted off by the wind. Most I have saw that were broke were  pictured below. This tree is alive, or at least it was last fall. It has a huge spherical nest in it, I am guessing to be a squirrels nest made of Cedar. Never saw anything like it before as its almost 6 feet in diameter.  I took quite a few photos last year of a property that I figured I never had a chance to actually own. :D

[Mr Mom]

     If you do move up there do you know anybody with a portable sawmill?

     Great pic of YOUR land. 8) 8) 8)

     Thanks Alot Mr Mom