iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Music and Milling

Started by Snag, March 18, 2007, 07:41:54 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Snag

I have heard varying thoughts on this topic from friends and coworkers.  What are your thoughts on listening to music while milling?  I know a couple of you (at least) use the ear muffs with the radio built in.  Some people have said it is an unnecessary distraction that could increase the chance of injury.  I was considering putting my ipod in my pocket and running the ear buds inside my shirt (so they dont get snagged) and putting my ear muffs over the buds.  what are the thoughts, concerns of the board on this? 

JimBuis

In the context of my high school and middle school classes, I do not allow anyone in the shop to wear earphone or headphones. I was not too concerned about it at first, but the first time I tried to get the attention of a student who had put in earphones then covered them with earmuff type hearing protection I considered it to be an incredible safety hazard. I have a rather loud voice and no amount of yelling on my part could get the boy's attention through the music he was listening to. Someone had to tap him on the shoulder in the end.

I personally get a lot of information about the saw I am running from the sound of the machinery. Although it would be tempting, I don't think I could ever bring myself to listen to music or anything similar due to the distraction.

IMHO,
Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

Brad_S.

I would go nuts if I didn't have music while sawing. To listen to that engine drone all day every day is just too much. I keep the music/talk radio down to a level that I can still hear the engine for feedback and when others are present, I keep an eye on them whether I have the radio on or not, so they can easily get my attention. Often, day after day of radio gets to me as well and I turn the headphones off for a while till the cycle repeats.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Ron Wenrich

I'm pretty much with Brad.  I listen to the radio to break the cycle of the day.  Talk shows, news and weather will slow you down, since you have to concentrate on 2 things.  Music can either slow you down or make you go really fast, depending on the type of music.

I try to keep mine to a level to hear the equipment. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

rvrdivr

QuoteI personally get a lot of information about the saw I am running from the sound of the machinery.

Well said, and can be true with other machinery as well. Any deviation from the normal sound, can give you a heads-up to a potential disaster. A well oiled machine should be music to your ears?

Someday I hope to hear that song! :D


Firebass

I've spent my whole life in a machine shop and music has often been a way of passing the day.  But when it something where you need to hear the cutting action or it's kind of  a touchy situation I still turn off the music so I have no distractions and can hear anything that might give me a hint that somethings wrong.   In which case you can often stop a situation at its infancy rather than when its a full blown CRASH.  Now with a 5 or 6 tooth blade whipping around at over 200 mph I'll be listing to nothing but the mill.  My Vote: Leave the IPOD home.

Firebass

Nate Surveyor

Depends on the music. Birds chirping is ok.

But this weird thumpety thump music makes me think an earth quake happened, and the classical sounds like a slipping fan belt!

:D :D

N
I know less than I used to.

jpgreen

I do a lot with my ears.  Hearing a machine eventhough I wear inner and outer protection is important.

What's not good is when guys wear head phones playing music, then they have to compete with the machine and by the time the volume is high enough, they're into the 100 plus db range and that's doing damage.  Better to have the music on a speaker system, and wear hearing protection in that case.

I wonder how well those noise cancelling head phones work?
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

mike_van

Doing machine shop work, making syrup, woodshop  in the basemant, i'll have music on. Not sawing though - I want to hear the mill, the motor, blade, whatever.   On those headphones & loud music  subject - 2 workers at our house, one had to climb over the Jacuzzi, hit the air switch & didn't know it - It can't run dry - Melted the pump right off the end of the motor, could have burned our hose down, cost them a lot to replace it, whole hose stunk like burning plastic.  Loud music and work just don't go together.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

D Martin

I work on Boston commercial/industrial construction jobs.  95% of the contractors will not allow raidos or headphones for saftey reasons. I personally dont have a problem on jobs with it but I would agree with the need to hear your macine while sawing. If you can pause the music while in the cut, the rest of the time should be ok

Brad_S.

Quote from: jpgreen on March 19, 2007, 10:47:03 AM
I wonder how well those noise cancelling head phones work?
Not very well. I tried a pair and they didn't cut the sound much at all. Wrong frequency, I think. Worked better in the Bobcat.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Engineer

No way on the music, whether it's on the mill or in the woodshop.  I need to hear the machine. The sound it makes tells me what it's doing.    If it's repetitive and relatively safe work, I guess it could be OK.  I usually have the radio on in the shop, so when the tools are off I can listen to it.

LT40HDD51

I use a set of Peltor Worktunes on my chainsaw helmet, was using them today actually. I have a Sirius sattelite reciever in the truck and just park it alongside the mill a few feet away, so Im always in the "tune zone"  ;D. I find they are great, good fast rock tunes can make the lumber really fly.

They seem to not go very loud compared to most headphones, being made by a hearing protection company  :). I had them cranked today and could still hear the engine and the blade cutting over the tunes. I could hear that ssshhhhhhh noise the blade makes when cutting, and when it goes away (when the blade is wandering).

Quote from: Brad_S. on March 18, 2007, 09:05:57 AM
I would go nuts if I didn't have music while sawing...and when others are present, I keep an eye on them whether I have the radio on or not, so they can easily get my attention...

I agree. I saw most of the time with my brother as tailman/edgerman, and we have almost a 6th sense working together. We have simple hand signals for almost everything we need to say when were cutting (how wide? 10". that one good? nope.). Most of the time in an industrial setting like that you cant hear a thing anyway, and you need to be "heads up" all the time. I also like em for planing lumber, driving a noisy cabless tractor thru the woods, or lots of those other simple tasks that are noisy and boring. I even wear them sometimes sharpening blades, the sound of 2 grinders at the same time will drive you nuts...  :D
The name's Ian. Been a sawyer for 6 years professionally, Dad bought his first mill in '84, I was 2 years old :). Factory trained service tech. as well... Happy to help any way I can...

woodbill2

I don't listen to music or the radio while milling. I too like to hear the mill and what it's telling me. I also find it easier to concentrate on the job at hand with no distractions. I do listen to the radio, mostly talk, when in the woodshop. I keep the volume at a level where the machinery can be heard over the radio.
Rain doesn't get things wet, it makes them grow. So next time you get rained on, remember you're growing, not getting wet.

LT40HDD51

Snag: dont you love it when people dont actually answer your question? (Like I did ;D)  Id say the ear buds inside of muffs would work fine (its almost like what I have goin on). The muffs will cut most of the outside noise and you can just turn the volume up to where you can still hear the machinery over the music. I also think, IMHO, that if you are gonna get distracted/injured in a noisy environment with muffs on (or plugs), tunes or no tunes probably wont make much of a difference... Ive seen people working in noisy areas who seem to get distracted by a bird flying by  :D

Might I suggest you have the volume control handy, or be able to unplug the earbuds in a hurry if you want/need to? Thats one thing I like about the Peltors, the volume is on the back of my right earmuff, and with the flick of a finger I can go from full volume to shut off just like that...
The name's Ian. Been a sawyer for 6 years professionally, Dad bought his first mill in '84, I was 2 years old :). Factory trained service tech. as well... Happy to help any way I can...

beenthere

Quote from: LT40HDD51 on March 20, 2007, 10:03:44 AM
................., the volume is on the back of my right earmuff, and with the flick of a finger I can go from full volume to shut off just like that...

Jus hope at that sudden moment of need that you have a free hand with a finger to do that task......... :)

Some say cell phones while drivin are no distraction as well....... ::)

but I'm not agin anyone doin it the way they wanta do it.  Some good points brought up in this thread to consider, as I see it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

tcsmpsi

If I need music while milling, I'll sing or whistle.  I can manipulate the switch on that venue, with no thought or movement.   If others don't like my whistling or singing, they can...leave.

I have trashed more than one radio on a jobsite.  Generally only takes one good chunk of 2X4 or well-applied hammer at medium to high velocity to generate the sufficient energy.

A little low-level talk or music (intentionally without going into particulars) floating around the air, out of the way, and unobtrusive, is acceptable. 

But, never, would ear-pluggings or coverings (for piping in non-related distractions) be allowed with myself, or anyone else under the color of my responsible environment.

When working around and/or with others, it is always best to keep a communication field open and clear.  I find the same to be true when working with only myself, as well.

Certainly, I understand pace and rythm to work.  I have no problem accomplishing that with my own energy, whether working alone, or with others 'in tow'. 

It is dangerous enough work, milling, sawing, felling, etc., around working machinery and the inherent human factor, without constraining the senses with non-applicable distractions.

You asked.   ;D

\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

OneWithWood

There is a radio in the barn that houses the mill, cab saw, jointer, SCM and planer.  about the only time it gets turned on is when I am doing maintenance on one of the former.  I tend to do finish work in the workshop by the house wherein I have a 400cd unit and wireless headphones.  The unit is often on when I am in the workshop.
I also have a set of Peltor radio/muffs.  I wear these when mowing, moving logs, building roads or most imes I am on the tractor or crawler.  I can still hear the motors but the music is soothing plus it helps to keep track of time.  When felling I wear only the muffs attached to the safety helmet.  No music.  I want to hear what the tree is telling me.
There is a time for tunes and a time for attentive listening.  to everything, turn ,turn turn . . .
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Snag

Thanks for all the input.  I, like Brad, find myself going nuts at times on certain logs.  I am going to try the buds and muffs and see what I can hear and play it by ear from there.  :)  Bad pun, I know.

Jeff

I'd be willing to bet a dollar to a donut that Ron Wenrich's saw time and mine, added together, would probably be more then most coud fathom. Like Ron, I always, always had a radio on.  I can say I was in tune with my saw. Any vibration any little breath of change was enough to laser attention to what may or may not be developing. Music had zero effect on safety or mechanical difficulities but had a lot to do with production. I listened to all kinds of music and the style and beat could certainly influence the rythm of sawing.  If I needed to really push the wood over short periods of time, songs like BTO moving down the highway, or similar fast paced songs served as a tool to get you going and keep you where you needed to be. Ted Nugent music with rapid fire guitar lics also would help push the saw. Other types of music would serve as long term sawing boosters. If I knew I was in for a 12 to 16 hour shift, I would need something slower but bright.  Music and listening to the radio got me through 25 years in the saw booth.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

D Martin

Now how did I know The Nuge was going to make his way into this thread ;)? He rocks, hunts may as well help get some sawin done

tcsmpsi

Quote from: Snag on March 20, 2007, 04:15:05 PM
Thanks for all the input.  I, like Brad, find myself going nuts at times on certain logs.  I am going to try the buds and muffs and see what I can hear and play it by ear from there.  :)  Bad pun, I know.

I like music.  A lot.  Perhaps that is one reason I'm not real keen on 'mixing my pleasures'.  Now, when I am in a more controlled envrionment (like working in the shop without a lot of other 'electrical buzz'), then I can listen to music a bit better.

And, of course, a lot of my 'habits' in the work environment come from environments where/when such a thing was not even thought of.

When I am running my mill, I am also doing all the other things which go along with it (washing/debarking logs,loading, deciding log/cant, moving/stacking lumber, maintaining the mill, etc., etc.) and I really never think of the need to expand otherwise.

Having been in the building/remodeling business for as long as I was, I had folks that would want to have radio playing while working.  But, it never really worked out well.
Certain areas/times it was ok. Putting on comp shingles, once roof was laid out and it was just nailing on shingles, no real problem.

I started easing out of that business structure before these compact thingamajigs came along.

A lot of times, would be working with owners present and always have to be cognizant of their sensitivities.   Doing new finish work inside, without owners, then it was pretty much ok.  Long as it didn't get disruptive.

I've seen lots of blood on jobsites (though, fortunately, very little on mine)  and a body part or two every now and then where it ought not be.  Having several folks around, working with power tools, slinging lumber, climbing, working off scaffolds, electricity, ladders, etc, etc., spontaneous and clear communication is a must for safety.
Working on apartment/townhouse complexes, etc., work around lots of different crews and get to see a lot of what different work ethics can provide.

Now, all that being said, if there weren't a cup of coffe hanging around somewhere pretty close, well, then I might get a little bugged.   :D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

ellmoe

   I'm a Worktune user too. There is no problem with hearing the saw over the  music or the talk shows I normally listen to. While some may think of the radio as distracting I find that it helps me stay alert. Listening to a motor all day tends to "zone me out".

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Sprucegum

The key to background music is KEEP IT IN THE BACKGROUND.

I have a real problem with this on my day job. A small factory with a lot of routine machining, milling ,welding functions and a lot of entry-level young guys who have a secret wish to go deaf before they die - even if it means the same day  :o  ???

My final warning to them : I can break more stereos than you can buy  >:(
Some are starting to wear Ipods , if I have to hit them to get their attention I don't do it lightly.

After 8 hours of that I work( or play) in total silence at home.

Steve

I think boredom and complacency are more dangerous than music. That is why I liked quartersawing bigh logs that had lots of problems. Always kept me thinking about what  I was doing.
Steve
Hawaiian Hardwoods Direct
www.curlykoa.com

Thank You Sponsors!