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Barberchair video

Started by Ianab, March 13, 2007, 09:40:12 PM

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Ianab

For anyone thats never seen a tree barberchair - here's a good video of how to create one.  :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9eMk5kCgCI&NR

The guys do look to be doing things right, but reading the comments posted with the video it seems they had a pull rope set high up in the tree, which is a sensible thing to do, BUT they tensioned the rope too much BEFORE they completed the backcut.

Anyway, it's a good example of what to watch out for.

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Greenedive

Wow...that looked like an old 051 Stihl...didn't know there were any stihl around. ;D

The notch looked good....but he'd have been better off boring in ½ way from one side and cutting to the back of the tree and then boring through on the other side leaving maybe ¾" of hinge wood and then bringing the saw around and finishing the back cut. That way you can cut the tree almost completely off and still retain total control. Making a back cut like he did with any forward lean at all on a tree is a recipe for disaster.

I was cringing from the time he started his back cut....

Thanks Ian!!

leweee

Greenedive is right..... that's painful to watch. :o


Thanks for sharing Ian. 8)
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

RSteiner

That reminds me of the first time, and last time that happened to me.  I was very inexperienced cutting an ash tree about the same size that was on the side of the road.  The tree had a good lean into the woods where I wanted it to land. 

My neighbor was standing on the opposite side of the road up on a bank watching.  I got to about 3/4 of the way through with the back cut when I caught site of the trunk moving.  The tree did not hit me but something moved me backwards and to the side faster than I am able to move, God was watching out for me for sure.

A few weeks later I attended a class taught by Soren Erickson where I learned how to deal with situations like that.  Those guys were lucky to get away unharmed.


Randy
Randy

Quebecnewf

Watched the video. Is it just me or did you find that even though the guys had all the correct gear and on the surface looked like a couple of pros as soon as he started handling the saw he seemed as if he was new to the tool.

Just watching him crouch and saw made me think it was one of his first trees, or at least his first tree with that saw.

Thoughts???????

Quebecnewf

RandyMac

Greetings,
From what I saw on that video, the split was caused by not enough undercut. It should have broken at the hinge, not behind it. It was good that when it did split, it was well away from the sawyer. A plunge cut would have helped, as would cutting the sap behind the hinge. Is it me, or did the little saw need a tune-up?

RandyMac
Have you heard about the guy who claims to have felled 2 million trees?

Kevin

There was a large root flare which became part of the hinge and holding wood.
It's a good idea to scarf those flares below the hinge.
That looked like someone getting instruction, maybe a chainsaw/felling course.


Max sawdust

Thanks Ianab,
I think when he had to stop and refuel, the sawyer may have got a little over anxious and just continued cutting with out looking at where his cut was going.  The root flare Kevin points out looks like it may have been a contributing factor..

I did not care for the way the second person came in and placed the wedges bending down directly behind the back cut :o  I personally like to keep my head away from that area  ;D  Stopping sawing and reaching around from the side to place the wedges would have been a bit more safe.

Glad no one was hurt.
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

sawguy21

 :o I too wondered about standing directly behind the tree to place the wedges. That saw sure should not have powered out in the cut and it did not sound like the chain was sharp. Thanks for the video, it is a good lesson on what not to do.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

slowzuki

Again the saw, it was cutting pretty slow for the size of powerhead and soft old willow.  I get pretty impatient with my MS260 in big wood but I'm sure it would have outcut his saw.  I don't cut a lot of hardwood, barberchairs in softwood are quite a bit different and you can get away with pretty thin hinges with the lighter trunk weights.

I've only even had barberchairs in softwood when cutting 4-6" stuff leaning at 45 degrees where the bar is too big to plunge for a backstrap.

rebocardo

> the saw he seemed as if he was new to the tool.

Yep, when he was making his notch, he has his leg directly in back of the saw and underneath so if it kicked back it would take out his leg. Then he pretty much stands in front of the tree while making the backcut, so the saw starts angled compared to the notch.

It barberchaired because the notch was bad and it stopped the tree before it was even 45 degrees. When you look at him redoing his notch, the saw is not level and when he walks away the notch is still tilted in towards the bottom (1:09 and 1:22 on the tape) and not level (humbolt) or tilted outwards like an open notch.

Plus, he is not level, started too high,  and is coming down towards the notch if you look at the stump.

The guy with the wedges ... death wish  :D

Thanks Ianab, that really shows the hazard of a barberchair in action, thankfully noone hurt or killed.    :o

Just showed it to my wife so she would know what a barberchair was since the kids came running when they heard the video. I asked her what she thought, her comment, "It sure is taking a long time to cut down such a small tree".

Kevin

The hinge didn't break because the wood split down and into the stump where it was being held.
That root wouldn't allow the hinge to break, too much holding wood.


Greenedive

I agree with Kevin...the hinge didn't break because he had not cut fast enough to cut enough holding wood to make a decent hinge. That is why that method of cut is so dangerous...it can be done, but you have to have a super sharp chain and know how to use it. For a tree with any size and value, it is foolish to take a chance like that, especially if you don't have much experience like this guy. The kid never even looked where his blade was on the other side of the tree once he started his backcut.

If, in fact, this is a chainsaw/felling course and that guy in the yellow vest is the instructor...then he should be fired before he gets somebody killed. Poorly chosen method...poorly performed. :(

Kevin

If you place a couple of small cuts below the hinge on the root flare it will prevent the roots from holding onto the tree while it's trying to fall.
When the roots hold the tree it stalls in the fall and can split out.


Greenedive

Good Point, Kevin!
When Soren Erickson 1st came around with his 'new' style of cutting...I would NOT cut cherry veneer trees using that method because no matter how small the hinge was if they would hit another tree on the way down and twist even the smallest bit it would rip a sliver of wood up one side of the hinge or the other (not a good thing in veneer cherry). I finally asked Dan Hartranft (GOL) about this and he told me about those little tab cuts to make under the hinge...solved that problem completely. There is still the occasional tree where the old method of cutting works best...but far and away the open faced notch method is safer and way more efficient in bringing down a tree, especially any tree with side or back lean...and double trees...and trees with bad stumps....it took a lot of the 'cut and hope' out of logging. ;D

rbhunter

I have a question as I learn from this forum. I have not had a barber chair yet and hope not to but how would a person cut this tree loose now safely? They escaped harm once but now to finish the job looks like a real problem. Is there a safe way to finish cutting the tree or getting it down?

Randy
"Said the robin to the sparrow, I wonder why it must be, these anxious human beings rush around and worry so?"
"Said the sparrow to the robin, Friend I think it must be, they have no heavenly father, such as cares for you and me."
author unknown. Used to hang above parents fireplace.

Ianab

Throw a rope around it (from a safe distance) and pull it down with a winch, skidder, tractor, pickup etc.  smiley_horserider
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

ely

if you think that was bad, i am glad you could not see my fiasco the other day. after all the noise and screaming/hollering i looked back at about a 13 ft barberchair that had used up no less than 1/3 of the big nice redoak that i had attempted to fell.

i have been logging and felling for longer than i care to admit, and had never before messed up near that bad. all that after i have had such good teaching in the proper way of doing things here on forestry forum.
i really have no idea where i went wrong except the tree did have alot of lean to it. it landed exactly where i aimed it, or i guess i can not claim that i aimed it at all. it was one of the trees that had died late in the fall and the dead wood may have effected my cut more than i had planned.

i started to take pics of it but then decided it would put someone on here out a great deal of money.........cause i am certain i would have had several volunteers to come fell for me after that. if you look up ugly in the dictionary there should be a picture of that tree in there. ;D

Kevin

It's always a good idea to bore a leaning tree.
If it's too small to bore then cut an A out of the holding wood in rear of the hinge to help reduce the stress in the wood.
Leaning trees, slow back cutting, large hinges and anything that contributes to stalling the tree during the fall can produce barber chairs.
When they start to go drop the saw and make haste .

Deadwood

Quote from: Greenedive on March 14, 2007, 06:47:46 PM
Good Point, Kevin!
When Soren Erickson 1st came around with his 'new' style of cutting...I would NOT cut cherry veneer trees using that method because no matter how small the hinge was if they would hit another tree on the way down and twist even the smallest bit it would rip a sliver of wood up one side of the hinge or the other (not a good thing in veneer cherry). I finally asked Dan Hartranft (GOL) about this and he told me about those little tab cuts to make under the hinge...solved that problem completely. There is still the occasional tree where the old method of cutting works best...but far and away the open faced notch method is safer and way more efficient in bringing down a tree, especially any tree with side or back lean...and double trees...and trees with bad stumps....it took a lot of the 'cut and hope' out of logging. ;D

I agree. When I first took the GOL I thought, "What can I get from this". An hour into it and I was bringing out my pencil taking notes. That was 10 years ago, and while I am not a professional logger any more, that training has helped me become a better logger that is very accurate at felling trees.

SwampDonkey

Long time no see Deadwood, been wondering were ya ran off to for so long.  ;D

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