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Request for any plans on a shed about 16'x20'

Started by wd, March 04, 2007, 06:44:13 PM

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wd

Hi,

I am planning on building a workshop about 16'x20'.  I have been wanting to try a timberframe and thought that this size shouldn't be too overwhelming for my first/maybe last frame.  Does anyone have a plan that would fit this size or could be easily modified to work? 

Knowns:  Would like the 16' width to be clear span if possible
               Timber would be all hardwoods, red/white oak, sugar maple, ash, ...
                Snow load for my area is 90psf, the property is assessed agricultral so no building permits are required.
                Will set timbers on concrete slab.

Any help is much appreciated. 

Thanks

Dave Shepard

Welcome to the forum! I, like many others here, recommend Jack Sobons "Timber Frame Construction". It details the building of a 12'x16' garden shed. You will often here of someone mentioning a "Sobon Shed", this is it. This book gives complete details on how to build this shed, and also gives advice on what you should consider to add length or width to this building. At twenty feet, you should be able to keep the three bent design, but I don't know how wide you can go, although this is mentioned in the book. I am moving a 16'x20' barn to make into a blacksmith shop. I could probably give you a rough idea of the design if you want.






Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Raphael

  IIRC in the book Jack says you can go 14'x20' without upsizing the timbers and larger by increasing everything to 8x8 posts with a corresponding depth increase in the beams.  But at 90 psf snow load running the numbers would be a wise decision, especially the roof and those beams (and posts) that take the roof load.  I'd also double check the sizing of the loft timbers if you plan on storing any significant weight up there (especially for a prolonged period of time).  I'd stick with the Oaks and Ash (White Ash?) for those timbers that will take the snow load.  From what Don P tells me White Ash is grouped with the Beech/Birch/Hickory (in the gluelam tables) so it will give you the best performance of the species you've mentioned.
  I'd highly reccomend the book even if you had a different design in hand to work from, a lot of good information.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Dave Shepard

Jack specifies 8"x8" timbers for all of the posts and beams. He recommends an 8"x10" crossbeam if you are going to go wider than 14'. Also the girts and floor joists have to be larger.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jim_Rogers

90 lbs for Maryland?
Are you in the hills or somewhere far away from the coast?
That seems kind of high to me, but I could be 100% wrong....

Jim Rogers

PS welcome to the forum....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Dan_Shade

it snows in garret county 11 months out of the year!  I had to run through that area back in my WVU days, 68 always seemed either too foggy to pass, or ice on the road  :)

welcome to the forum WD, you live in some beautiful country up there.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

wd

Thanks for all the replies.  This is a very good site, ala good people.
When I was checking on the permit requirements  I asked what the snow load was for us.  We average about 140" of snow a year I think.  Fairly mountainous.  I guess we have gotten about 6 inches so far today and it still snowing, suppose to be 7 above in the morning.  Dan is right, some times it seems like  winter lasts too long.

Tomorrow I will run some calcs on the beam sizing to see what works.  Just thought maybe someone had something for that size or a little larger for a reference.

I have been cutting timber on my place and when I get the mill set up I will provide pictures.  Maybe before to show my attempt at logging.

Thanks ya'll


Thehardway

There are a few plan drawings in the back of Steve Chappell's " Timberframer's Workshop" book.  I believe I saw one last night that was 16X22?   I would rather see a design shrunk than stretched especially with the kind of snow loads you are talking about and your usage.  (Have seen engine blocks stored in barn attics) The book is a great read as well and I would reccommend even if you don't use the plan.  Are you near Cumberland?  I go through Hancock, MD on my way to PA and the winter weather is always nasty between Breezewood PA and Hancock MD.

Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Don P

Quote(Have seen engine blocks stored in barn attics) 

There's 3 in the barn I designed for drying flowers in. And the rest of 1 truck, and a few whacks of lumber  :D.

Raphael

Quote from: Don P on March 06, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
Quote(Have seen engine blocks stored in barn attics) 

There's 3 in the barn I designed for drying flowers in. And the rest of 1 truck, and a few whacks of lumber  :D.

Sounds kinda familiar.  :)
I figure when I engineer the lofts in my own barn I'll stick all the expected live load on the dead weight side of the equations just to be safe.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Thehardway

wd,

Just looked it up.  For once my memory served me correctly. ;D  It is a 16' X 22' saltbox.  It is a clearspan design.  It uses 7"X10" rafters and posts, with a couple 8"X12" Tie Beams as the largest timbers.  It would make an awesome little barn or shop as it has that old timey country look that saltboxes have.   Itt would also be an excellent timberframe primer as it uses a lot of the most of the common joints.  He provides a bent plan, elevation and Timber schedule although there are no dimensioned drawings of the joints or cut sheets.  The plans are for EWP so the timber sizes might be able to be scaled back if using a stronger hardwood species.

Good luck and be sure to post some pictures.

TH
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

wd

Thanks for the info thw.  And you also asked if I was near Cumberland, I'm about 40 miles west of Cumberland. 

I was working on the numbers today with the forum calculator and was getting some sizeable rafters so I called permits again to check on the snow load.  Mr. Rogers was correct it was too high.  They said the ground load was 90 psf and the roof was 40 psf.  I don't know what ground load is, but the  member sizes look alot better with a 40psf load.  Rafters came in at 4x6 and the tie beam was 8x10.  Seems to match the saltbox info you just shared.  I feel better now, thanks ya'll.

Jim_Rogers

I told a friend who was here the other day about your comment that Maryland had a 90 lbs snow load.
He said he could look up through his association on the Internet the snow loads for anywhere in the country.
What town are you in, in Maryland?

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

wd

Thanks for the offer Jim, the biggest town is Oakland if your friend can confirm the snow load it would be much appreciated.  Was raining pretty good saturday while we were pulling out some logs so I did not get the camera out.  Will soon though.

I ordered one of Sobon's books and it arrived friday but before I could look it over my brother decided to read it first.  Told me he would like to build a small barn tf as well.  Looks like a very busy spring and let me tell you why.

Maryland has introduced a new bill to provide for a "Green Fund" for the Chesapeake Bay.  It will require a payment of $2/square foot for all new impervious areas before a building permit will be issued except in urban areas where the fee is 0.25/sq. ft..  This includes all roofs, driveways,parking areas, sidewalks, decks, etc.  Now as I mentioned where I want to build my shop is classified ag use no building permit is required but this new bill will supersede the county requirements.

So my little 320 sq.ft. will cost $640, plus the drive way to access it will be about 300 ft. long and was planning on building it 12ft wide will cost $7200 for the impervious fee, even if stoned.  If the gov. signs the bill it is to take effect july 1.  So we will be very busy or I will be looking for another state to move too.  Don't mean to get political on the forum but that is crazy. >:(

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