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Home Made Bandsaw

Started by KiwiCharlie, June 24, 2001, 10:03:24 PM

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KiwiCharlie

G'day Guys,

Has anyone out there seen or built one of the Bandsaws that William S. Rake, in Raynoldsville PA, sells plans for?  The link below takes you to his web page.
I am handy with welding and scavenging! so the construction is not a problem.
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Charlie.

http://users.penn.com/~zigbug/
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Don P

Hi Kiwi,
I remember a thread near the beginning of the year on woodweb about this,a search there might bring it up. As my saw goes round and round I didn't pay enough attention but I think several homemade types were discussed.

Ron Wenrich

That's the first I've seen of this guy, although his name does sound familiar.

I've seen some pretty big homemade band saws.  One guy could cut up to 40" logs and could get good production.  I believe he was running a 5" band.  His asking price for his portable band was $70,000.

I see a few problems with this mill.  It is way underpowered.  5 hp motor is just a lawn mower motor.  Most small bands have at least an 18 hp.

There is no type of feedworks on these.  You have to feed the saw by hand.  It's better to put some type of hydraulics on to help your back.

All in all, it may be worth the money to see his plans if you are serious about a hobby mill.  Just keep in mind, this is a bare bones mill.  300 bf in a day is only a couple of logs.  You will have to add something to it to get some decent production.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Bibbyman

I've watched the Woodweb for a couple of years and put my two cents in from time to time.  There are always someone out there trying to build their own band sawmill and others apparently have or are also in some stage of building their own mill.

To each his own and it surely none of my business but I've often wondered why.  Why build a band sawmill?  

I ponder on this from time to time and can't quite figure it out.  Looks to me like if you want to make lumber,  buy a mill (even if you have to borrow the money) and pay it off sawing lumber.  I'd think the effort and time spent to build the mill would be about equal to the effort to saw the lumber to pay the difference between a store bought mill and a homemade mill.  

I've done a little ciphering in my head and it looks like about any mill (expensive or inexpensive) should pay for itself with one full production day per month going to the payments.  Another good day of production would go to overhead and maintenance.  Any other days used would be profit.

I'm raised on a farm and been around sawmills all my life and out of necessity I've made, modified,  adjusted, repaired all types of things big and small, simple and complex.  But given the number of mill manufactures, design styles, performance levels, and features available new and used out there,  what would be the advantage to building you're own mill?
 ::)

Respectfully,  please enlighten me.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Kevin

The big difference would be whether or not you`d be selling the lumber and to what extent you wish to mill .

Ron Wenrich

Your ciphering may be close, but did you include the cost of timber in that estimate?  If not, than your sawing time would be increased.

The reason for building a mill for some people is the savings between a turnkey and a build-your-own.  When you don't have to make payments every month, there is a lot less pressure.

For Kiwi Charlie, there is also the cost of shipping to New Zealand to consider.  

And those hobby millers don't really saw that much.  That one day a month may be all they saw.

I agree that turnkey is much less aggravating than trying to re-engineer a band mill.  But, I've never seen a mill that has suited me 100%.  I've always made adjustments to someone else's design.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

KiwiCharlie

G'day Guys

Thanks for your responses.  Bibbyman, I was looking at the homemade mill from an economic point of view (I know I could keep the cost of making the mill low, with my sources of materials etc).  Purely from the idea of being able to start sawing timber for other people, and make enough money to then look at buying a turnkey mill.  I never like borrowing money, but it is always an option.
Ron, the cost of shipping is a big issue for any large peice of equipment coming from overseas.  We really are out on a limb here (pun not intended!), hence the thought of a home made mill, to ease the costs.  I dont particularly want to mill timber for my own use, but would like to be able to saw for other people.  Of course I would mill for myself also but thats not the driving force behind the idea.
I love my Alaskan chainsaw mill but for dimension timber, its not so practical, but when someone wants a 6' wide table top slabbed, Im the one they call!!  But I digress....
There are a few portable mill manufacturers here in NZ and of course Lucas Mills is in Australia, so there are choices locally.  The need for a portable mill is a great advantage with the way NZ is constructed (!), and offers so many more job (milling) opportunities.  The choice of a bandsaw design is because that is the only "homemade" plans I have found.
Again thanks for all your input, its great to get thoughts from "left-field" that get you thinking in a new direction!
Cheers
Charlie.

http://www.lucasmill.com.au/index.html

http://www.yellowpages.co.nz/for/petersonsaw/
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Bibbyman

G'day right back to you Charlie,

Yea,  I hadn't figured the shipping and import duties on such things as sawmills.  But what about the major components such as the motor?  Looks to me like half the cost of the most basic mills would be the motor.  Are you planning to pull a motor out of a Yugo? :D :D :D

I'm with you on the money-borrowing thing.  But when I can take a machine and pay for itself and the interest,  plus make a profit on top of that,  I go for it.  Especially if the money can be borrowed against the machine – thus not putting my home, land, etc. at risk.

In my earlier post I said I'd taken on some projects.  I've got some pictures out on the Internet of our sawmill. Note we've added a hydraulic log turner and toe board to a manual Wood-Mizer LT40,  A Jones debarker, manual log deck, and a dust collection system.

Here is the link.

http://cartogra.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=885556

By the way,  did you know Wood-Mizer had a representative in NZ and two in Australia?  

Here is the stuff on the NZ contact.

Paul Marshall
PAUL AND HAZEL MARSHALL
Rosewill Valley Road: RD 4
Timaru, New Zealand

Tel: 64-3-688-2032
Fax: 64-3-688-7676
E-mail: P_Marshall@xtra.co.nz

Later dude from "UP OVER",

Bibbyman,  8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Kevin

Bibby,  nice pictures.
Do you mind if I post the link on my Web Page?
Kevin

KiwiCharlie

G'day Bibbyman,

Hey those are a great set of pictures.  Looks like a nice setup you've got there.  A must if you dont want to half kill yourself everyday!  Log turners, debarkers etc.
I especially like the design of the shed, is it a standard type of structure round your parts?  Half rounds are popular here.
Do you dry your sawn timber yourself or do you send it off-site?
Re a motor for a homemade mill, stationary motors are a dime a dozen down here, and can be had cheaply if you know where to look and have a bit of mechanical nouse!
Thanks for the Wood-Mizer contacts, I will get in touch with them and see what they offer.
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Bibbyman

Hi Kiwi,

Thanks for the complements on the sawshed.  We built it in '95 – sawing out all the lumber on our '94 Wood-Mizer.  The main part is 20' x 40' with 12' to the eaves.  It's typical contemporary metal pole barn construction but with board siding.  It has 12' wide openings on each end and 20' wide on both sides. Logs come in the 20' opening in front, slabs out the back.  We can park a truck, wagon, etc. in the 12' opening and offbear onto it.

There are three 10' workbenches and shelves built along the walls on the 40' sides.  In the fourth corner, there is a bench for setting.  (It has the view you see in the last picture overlooking the LT40 Super.) I've collected a bunch of old (some may even be antique) hand tools and attached them up high to the inside walls.  One high shelf has a collection of about 10 Homelite XL12 chainsaws.

The building is wired and has five 200-watt light fixtures under the roof.  An electrician that worked on re-modeling an old gymnasium donated the fixtures.  We can and sometimes do work after dark and the lights really do a good job.  There are also floodlights on each end of the building that light up the log yard area.  There are about 10 outlets around the inside – making it handy to plug in a fan or an electric chainsaw, etc.

A couple of years ago,  we  added a Valley edger and built 18' wide by 15' long sheds on each end.  The edger is under the left end.   We can get a ton flat bed truck or 16' trailer completely under the extension on the right.  Then Mary started to build a little office building you see on the right front. It's not attached and on skids if we want to move it.  

This is a perfect example of doing it yourself to minimize cost.  I figured we had about $1000 "hard cash" in the main building.  Another $500 in the extensions.  Most of that was for new painted metal for the roof and 200-amp electrical service with lights, etc.  But it took almost a year from start to not quite done yet.

But; I can't look at what we've ended up with and think I'd been much further ahead if I'd just borrowed $16,000 back in '94 and bought an HD mill vs. manual and had a paid for a 30'x60' building constructed by professional builder.  With the saved time and effort,  I could have been sawing at twice the production rate and paying off the loan.:-/

We have been planning for the past couple of years to build a much larger building with insulation and sliding doors so we can work in comfort in any weather.  We'd put a stationary LT40HD25E Super 3ph mill with all the toys, along with log live deck, and board green chains, etc.  I'm debating if I want to build it myself or get a construction company to put it up for me.  I'd really like to build it in a post and beam style but with bolts and metal plates instead of mortise and tenon - more like how the old warehouses and other industrial buildings were built about a hundred years ago.

Bibbyman,
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

KiwiCharlie

G'day Bibbyman,

Do you know of any links for web sites for post and beam style construction?  I really like that type of building and it would suit the chainsaw miller down to the ground!.
Cheers
Charlie
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Bibbyman

Yea, Kiwi,

I found this one: :o

http://www.timberframemag.com/

It's got a notice board and about six months ago I posted a request for any kind of plans, design data, etc. for post and beam construction using bolts and plates but didn't get a reply.  But the site sure looks like it could be a useful starting point for general information.

And... By the way,  one day I happened onto a website that has all kinds of plans in Adobe Acrobat format. But I didn't find any that were post and beam.

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans

There are a couple of books out there and my son has one at home but I can't remember the names right now.

Bibbyman,

Say, where did you find the extra Smileys?

Never mind,  I found them.

(My conpany sent me to HTML class. I got to put my training to good use - wouldn't you say?)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Don P

KC,
 Have you been to http://www.tfguild.org
Sorry guys but I gotta go buy myself a drink,1st time a cut and paste actually worked (I had heard rumors about such things).
 8) 8)
Bibbyman, I hear you on the loan in hindsight issue. Just spared you a 200+ word exhortation on same,suffice it to say been there doing that.

So where do the demented smileys live? ???

Kevin


Bibbyman

Ah MAN!   Kevin just spilled the beans just when I was going to tell you.

Well, here is more helpful info:

Fire up another session of Explorer or Netscape or whatever you are using and get to:

http://www.plauder-smilies.de

You select one you want.  The address info is at the bottom.  You got to CUT (Ctrl-C) that address and quick like a bunny,  jump over to the message you're making and PASTE (Ctrl-V) that sucker in your note.

'Least that's how I do it.  
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Kevin


KiwiCharlie

G'day Guys,

Well I thought I may get a bit more mileage out of the Smileys before someone found them, but never mind!!  If I wasnt such a nice guy, I may have had to flame you, lol -  
Have fun with them, they are great.
Bibby, thanks for the links, there is a fair bit for me to look at!
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Billy_Jack

My bandmill is well made, 22 hp 3 belt ,22in. wheel,14ft6 in. X  1 1/2 band or 1 1/4 .3X6 3/16 tubing bed . 2X2  X 1/4 tubing for upright and cagge.I can cut 34 in. by 20ft with a 8ft. ext.for 28ft.I have a seat so I ride with someone to off load. I run my band at about 5800 fpm
Why ? I wanted too! cost less than 4,000 $ why buy a home when you can build one
Billy Jack :D

Noble_Ma

I'm in the planning stage of building a timber frame barn in the spring.  The best books written on timber framing are by Jack Sobon and Ted Benson.  I also have Steve Chappell's book and have found it to be a great reference.  Most of these books contain all the information you need to design and build a timber frame structure.  Stresses and shearing forces are discribed and calculated.  Some of the books go into the history of various joints and styles of design. The  strengths and weaknesses of joints are also considered.  There are other books but these are some of the ones that I liked best.  Hope this is helpfull.

Noble

KiwiCharlie

G'day Noble_Ma,

Could you post the details of those books by Sobon and Benson, and the other one, including the ISBN numbers?  I would be really interested to have a look at them.
Thanks
Cheers
Charlie
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

smwwoody

Hi Charlie

I have seen and used a few of bill rakes mills go to http://www.sawmillmag.com/bulletin/showmessage.asp?messageID=1208  and look at my posts on his plans it also gives you a link to some of his plans at http://www.sawmillplans.8m.com/
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

smwwoody

Hi Charlie

I have seen and used a few of bill rakes mills go to http://www.sawmillmag.com/bulletin/showmessage.asp?messageID=1208  and look at my posts on his plans it also gives you a link to some of his plans at http://www.sawmillplans.8m.com/
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

KiwiJake

Howz it kiwi Charlie, I my self did exactly the same as you are considering to do, though I did build my self a mill, Peterson Sawmills type design, I am very familiar with them as I am part of the family, at this stage I did not know the cost price of these mills. Using scrap materials, second hand parts, my own labour and welding skill, I was astonished to realise that there was but little profit on the manufacturers part and as would be probably toward other manufacturers. Although it was an enjoyable learning curve looking back now I would have definately bought a new one, as it would have saved myself alot of labour and time which I could have been milling, not to mention I'd have the backup of the manufacturer. That that looks of simplicity can soon become very complicated in the unexperienced hand.
Speaking from personal experience and opinion.
Kiwi Charlie, you missed a few around your neck of woods...
Peterson Portable
Mahoe
Levin
Rimu

KiwiCharlie

G'day Jake,

Those two were the only ones I could find with web links at the time, hence no mention of the others.
Mahoe do a real smart unit.
I cant say I would bother making a mill, if I was part of an existing sawmill manufacturing family.
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

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