Wondering if i should by this grapple loader for my mill operation?

[Kelvin]

Howdy all!

Just wondering what you guys might think about a deal i've got offered to me.  A neighbor of my brothers had a cherry tree he asked if we wanted to buy.  We bought it and cut it.  He was in the lot clearing business a long time ago, and has had some cancer troubles and breathes through a valve in his throat now.  He has a bunch of older equipment that has been sitting out for quite awhile.  One is a chevy truck from the power company that has a nice 10' dump bed and pretty big grapple loader.  Its the kind that you sit in a chair up over the cab.  Its quite large.  The truck hasn't run in, oh, 10 yrs?  its a gas truck with 5 speed man. trans and 2 spd rear end.  Hydraulic brakes, and looks about late 70's early 80's vintage.  I would say its a 20,000 lbs single axle rig.  The cab is pretty rusty.  I've asked him before about it and he was always going to get it running, but this time he said he'd think about selling it to me.  Next time i see him he says $3,000.  He said the grapple intially was a clam bucket, and he bought the rotator grapple for $4,000 by itself.  He said once that the truck needed some work, but now he says it only needs a new battery and gas.  The tires look okay.

Well here is my delema.  I've been spending money like crazy on my business and not making much, though the sales are starting to build, about $900 a week so far.  I've got a good running diesel f-800 1990 crane truck with an 8000 lbs crane and 36k gvw single axle dump.  I don't know if i want to sell this to get the grapple, though its more ineffeciant, at least i know its pretty good to go.

What do you guys think?  What would you do?  I've got a neighbor who i trade with, who is pretty good mechanicing on this old stuff and wouldn't cost me much.  He could do anything with it.  We just rebuilt a backhoe for me last year.  Does it sound like $3k is a good deal?  Seems like i could take the crane off and maybe put it on the front of my trailer and sell the old truck?  Though two trucks sound good, but the insurance and plates are over $1k a year each.

The other thing he has is a perfect little john deere dozer.  3 cylinder gas w/ 6 way blade.  He had installed new tracks, rollers, sprockets and the whole undercarriage before parking this about 10 yrs ago.  Says all it needs is a starter, which he has new in his shop.  He is retired from GM, so he had lots of money to put into his business.  He showed me the dozer cause my little tractor was having trouble with the bigger logs.  He has a dozer forestry winch on the back for skidding logs.  It sure is nice.  Weighs 10k lbs, so my trailer would be okay.  I told him, How about a package deal?  We'll see.  Some other people want the truck as well, but he says i've got first dibs, though not sure if they are interested to the tune of $3k, though it probably is worth it. 

It sure would help with picking up logs and cleaning up the log yard.  Stacking things.  picking up messes and delievering slab firewood.  I'm getting in to deep.  As soon as i make a little money i start thinking i need a 4 head moulder, a bigger planer, bigger and more kilns.  I don't think i'll ever get to the point where i say.  This is enough stuff to take care of, and make money with what i have.  I'm running circles around myself to keep up with my obligations.  Whatcha think?  Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush?

[Minnesota_boy]

Buy it!  Being up above the cab while loading is worth the $3K by itself as it gets you away from the log while loading.  When is the last time you saw a log fall UP?  Having a grapple with a rotator will make loading logs easy and you'll find lots of other jobs to do with it that you haven't even thought of yet.

[kderby]

Hey Kelvin,

What is your core competancy?  What is your focus?  I was getting worked up about an upcoming timber sale and my wife took me to task  ( ;D ever so gently ;D) and reminded me to stay focused on making my core business even more successful rather than chasing every opportunity that wagged its tail.  Later in the week two business advisors agreed.  If I am busy making money and building a market with "A" then what does it do when I go and chase "B".

I have also realized my niche is roughsawn lumber from an unusual species.  I do not own the moulders, planers or retail outlets.  I do not make the furniture or flooring.  I buy logs and make the best lumber I can.  Then I sell it.  Vertical integration is fine unless you get stretched too thin.  You sound plenty busy.  Will this opportunity help or hurt?

Carry on and good luck! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[logwalker]

I don't know about the truck, but I had one of those dozers and it was nothing but trouble. May have been a lemon but let's hear what the others say. When was that dozer made? Mine only had a two-way blade. May be a different model. The truck could be very useful. How are the hyd. lines and seals. A guy could sink a small fortune in a rig like that if it wanted to do that to you. It's only money. HaHa, Joe

[Warren]

Kelvin,
Make sure of the lift capacity on the boom truck before jumping.  Before I bought mine, I was looking at used utility trucks.  A friend who worked in the electric utility area for about 30 years pointed out that a lot of the electric co. trucks had booms with limited lift capacity.  All they ever had to lift was a utility pole (1,000 lbs ?).  He was fairly certain the equipment he had worked with would not lift good sized logs (3-4,000 lbs).  I ended up buying a used construction KB that will lift about 5K lbs up close to the truck. No grapple.  But still very handy.

I am very interested to hear what comes of the JD crawler.  A retired logger, who lives near me has a JD 350 crawler with winch, log forks and blade.  It has been sitting for several years.  Supposedly "only" needs steering clutches.  I would be interested to hear what your guy asks for the crawler.

Kderby,
I understand your situation.  I started out with a specific focus.  But have had several opportunities arise.  The challenge is to figure out which are complementary to our core focus and which are divergent.  We can not be "all things to all people".  But if a new opportunity arises that is both viable and profitable...   Hmmm...

I am in the process of testing a couple different areas that were not in my original business plan.

Warren

[Joel Eisner]

What is your core competancy?  What is your focus? 

I thinks Kelvin's core competancy seems to be clearing trees out of relatives yards and transporting antique wood working equipment from Chicago using a semi-antique truck.

:D :D :D

[Hi-Country Orange]

joel you forgot to mention the lack of illumination on the truck for nite driving    8)   8)

[DR Buck]

Not being able to see the real condition of the stuff and only going on what you've written makes a recommendation difficult.   

First, I'd say no to the dozer. Unless you have an absolute defined need for it.   A tracked thing like that will tear up you lot if used over and over.   May be OK for clearing jobs, but if not your primary business, then no.


The loader with the grapple sounds like it could be useful.  I have one on a trailer and can't imagine not having it after using it for the last 2 years. (actually I can and it's scarey)   Since you have a good truck already, can it be mounted on that?  That way you wouldn't be spending repair money on a 2nd truck just to have the grapple available.  Not to mention the additional insurance and registration cost for another vehicle.

[two saw]

Thank you Kelvin,
  I thought I was the only one that wanted every piece of equipment I found. I too have been throwing money at my business like I have it to spend. Mill has been silent for over 3 months now as I am trying to get equipment and mill yard, buildings, lot cleared etc. completed. Money is running out and I better get busy making some. My problem is I have some strange need to do everything myself. Can't explain it. Makes everything take twice as long as it should. Had to get my CDL's and am now getting my general contractors license and rebuilding a 12 ton trailer and rewiring a Ford L-9000 that some nut cut the wiring to pieces in. tracing wires in the snow and wind is not my idea of fun. 2 days doing that. Got them all figurd out though. Need to saw some 2"X10"X14' for the new trailer floor. Trying to rent my telescopic froklift out to local contractors to bring in some more money. If I do then I need something to load/unload logs at the mill when it is out. Trying to find a small loader to mount on the Ford. I agree with the others that you need to stay focused on your core business and put your time and resources into making it a sucess. I need to do the same thing but I can't. I get distracted by every oppertunity that presents itself. This internet has been both a blessing and a curse for me. Way too much information for my own good.  I made a promise to myself this year to focus on one aspect at a time and see it through. Bet you I can't do it. :D
Dan.

[kderby]

 :D :D :D :D

Two Saw, with that story to tell,  you might as well be my brother.  Carry on Dan.

Always FOCUS on something even if it is the wrong thing.  Ha! : :

[slowzuki]

I'd steer away from the dozer, they can cost you money like you couldn't believe and aren't worth having unless you use them frequently.  A small dozer doesn't get things done very fast either.

A grapple would be nice but I wouldn't have two trucks kicking around.  Usually rationed by oooh I'd have spare.  Then one breaks and you say I'll get around to it but I've got this one to use.  Then that one breaks and you got two broken trucks.  I'd rather just fix the one that broke in the first place and have a grapple on it.

We got rid of our old tractor to get a newer more reliable one so we didn't have to fix it so often, broken equipment never makes money.

[RMay]

If the dozer is three cyl. gas its a 350 all of the gas burners had dry steering clutches and was made in the 60s & 70s . The state had all JD-350 at one tine and the maint. to keep them running was $30.00 per hour. Check with JD on parts because it was getting hard to get some parts for them .