Portable sawmill to cut Wenge/Sapeli/Iroko

[Jorge Carlos]

Hi everyone,

I have a small concession in Cameroon, where I may cut several tropical Hardwoods like Wenge, Sapeli or Iroko. As the logs' exportations has been banned, I have to start sawing my own logs. Due to the fact that I lack financial resources to setup a static sawmill, I would like to invest on a portable sawmill (band or swing). I have already seen some catalogs but there are two questions for which I have no answer so far:

1. If I cut 4'' planks, what will be my daily production of timber (band or swing)? Does anyone have reliable statistics to share with me?

2. Are these portable sawmills reliable when it comes to cut such hardwoods? For instance, is the cutting quality good or not? Or does the cutting tends to wave? Is the cutting accuracy ok? For example, everyone promises a cutting accuracy of more or less 1mm. If this is the real situation, that is ok.

If anyone has got experience with these hardwoods, I would appreciate some feedback as, on the near future, my life and the lives of some people that work with me depend on the success of this investment. It would be a tragedy if I invested on the wrong machinery.

By the away, I have studied the following brands:

(Swing)
Peterson
Lucas

(Band)
www.Serra.de
www.woodmizer.com

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Ianab]

Hi Jorge

You will probably find that most of us aren't so familiar with those species of tree, but we do run the sawmills cutting all sorts of stuff around the world.

I guess first question is, how big are the logs?
If you are routinely going to saw bigger logs (30"+) then a swingblade is the way to go. Smaller sized logs the bandmills will handle well.

What support equipment do you have?
The swingmills are very portable, you can usually drag them out into the bush to saw big logs where they fall if you dont have the heavy machinery to skid the logs out to a central sawing site.

As for your questions.
Production? - thats a real variable. The saws will cut a lot of wood is you can set yourself up so the saw is allways in the log. That means good helpers and efficient handling of logs with whatever mill you have. Small logs and having to manually load them onto the mill slows production. Peterson claim you can cut between 3 and 10 cu/mtrs per day. To cut 10 you would want to be cutting large dimension boards from BIG logs with lots of helpers, by yourself cutting smaller logs, 3 would be a hard days work ;)
Although most swingblades are all manual operation the production figures are comparable to the more expensive hydralic bandmills.

Accuracy?
Yes the mills generally cut to about 1mm accuracy. Yes you can get misscuts of course. On a swingmill it's usually operator error, or the log (or support bunks)moving on you. On a bandmill waves will happen when the band gets blunt. Some woods are more difficult to saw, and some blunt the band faster, but if you are getting waves, you have a blade or adjustment problem that you can fix.
And sometimes just internal tension within the log causes the whole log to warp or bow on the mill as you are sawing :  Misscuts happen on the big sawmills too. ;)
The swingblades are pretty well proven with the Australian hardwoods (and they are HARD) so they can handle pretty much anything that you throw at them.

Maintainance?
Both types of mills require regular shapening. On the swingmills it's a simple matter of using a diamond wheel grinder on the tips, you dont even take the blade off to do this. When the carbide tips wear out you braze on new ones ( or get your local saw Doc to do it). Bandsaws take more sharpening, and if you are in a remote location you will probably need to buy a sharpening / setting machine to keep them tuned up.

I am biased toward the swingmills, they are designed to be used in remote locations, sawing big logs of any kind, and you dont need to be a rocket scientist to operate one  It might be worth looking at the chainsaw slabbing options as well. I would think you could get a premium price for big live edge slabs of those species?

Cheers

Ian

[Furby]

I'm gonna take a guess that you are looking at the smaller LT10 and LT15 Woodmizers?
I'm also gonna guess that if you are looking at a larger Woodmizer, that the shipping will cost a fair amount more then some of the other mills.
Something to think about.

[Jorge Carlos]

Hi Ian,

first of all, thanks for your comments. As far your questions are concerned, I would like to add the following points:

1. Man power is not a problem on our region because there are a lot of unemployed people, that really need the money to keep living. That is why this project is very important from the social point of view. Therefore, I may have a few guys helping the guy that is holding the blade.


2. Yes, we have big, big logs of Iroko and Sapeli. Wenge is a different issue. For instance, we have Iroko logs whose diameter is around 2.5 meters. In general, the average diameter size is around 1.5 meters, at least 20' long. So, I suppose that at least for Sapeli and Iroko, a swing mill could be an option. My main concern here is the daily production and the cutting quality.


Regarding that first point, please notice that with the help of a generator, I suppose that we could work with two shifts in order to raise the production's volume. The second point is even more critical because, according to our European clients, our 4'' planks will be cut into 4'' wide strips. If the planks thickness is not ok, then, the width will not be ok either. This means a huge loss for them and for us.


3. We have two old trucks to transport the logs. Very old indeed  :'( We usually load them with the help of tirforts. It is a patience work, that takes a lot of time. We have no reliable machinery to skid the logs. That is why the portability issue is a must for us. Transporting the planks back to a central point it is an easy task because it is a arms' task rather than a machinery task.

[Ga_Boy]

Hi Jorge,

I have been running a Peterson 10" WPF for 2 years.

Knowing what I know now, I would have bought the ASM.  The automation I think would have paid for it's self by now. 

Oh yes,  my market is for the larger dia. logs.   





Mark

[TexasTimbers]

Welcome to the Forum Jorge,

I won't offer any advice on this but I just wanted to WOW! That Serra is one awesome looking machine! Not knowing anything about it but from the looks it appears that German engineering is alive and well that thing makes my mouth water.

[Jorge Carlos]

Hi Kevjay,

the Serra seems to be an outstanding mobile band sawmill. But the price is out of my scope. Too many Euros ......... It is a pitty  :'(.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hola Jorge
I run an 8" Peterson WPF, in Costa Rica. Believe me, there are some very hard woods here, also.  I know of a couple portable bandmills here, and, they are having me saw the hardwoods. The band dulls very quickly, while I can sharpen the Carbide tipped Peterson and be back in the log within 10 minutes or so.

  I am currently building a Bandmill, but, it will be used on smaller, softer logs. The Peterson will keep 2 offbearers busy, because you have to move lumber and scraps quite a distance away, to keep a clear area for walking everything away from the mill.

  I keep after the help to clean up, but, they insist on stumbling over trash, so, I give them 1 last warning, and I have fired a couple of them.

  Shipping will be cheaper with a Peterson OR Lucas, and the less parts, the less down time.

  Here is 1 photo from my Gallery. There are several more.

[TexasTimbers]

Harold is that purpleheart? I love that stuff.

[Fla._Deadheader]

No Kev,  Pilon   

  Purple heart is getting scarce down here, I'm told

[treebucker]

Welcome Jorge Carlos,
Speaking from the perspective of a portable bandmill operator, I can't help but agree with Ian. Anything you can do to limit the need to move those big logs would make everything easier. To that end, swing mills offer that advantage, particularly on big logs.

I don't know how hilly the terrain is were you will be cutting. I would suggest you choose some that are out in the open and on level ground to practice on until you get a feel for the details of setting it up and operating it before you tackle the more challenging sites.

It sounds like you will become an expert in moving and handling heavy logs using mainly human power. That is a lost art in this area.  I'm curious about the word 'tirforts'. I could not find a definition in my searches.

Stick with us and keep us up to date on your progress. There are many here who will answer your questions. I hope you have access to a digital camera and can post some pictures. Good luck!

Edit: Why not cut your planks slightly over-sized to allow for shrinkage/minor defects that develop during drying. Would that be acceptable to your clients?

[TexasTimbers]

How you pronounce that.

Py-lon

Py-lon

Pee-lon

Pee-lon

Puh-lon

Puh-lone

None of the above ???

Is it similar to purpleheart?

[Jorge Carlos]

Hi treebucker,

actually, the word I used means Griphoist in English. In French it is a tirefort. If you want further information, please go to the following link: http://www.angliahandling.co.uk/acatalog/Tirfor_Winches.html

As far we are concerned, it is a useful tool to skid logs and load trucks. The drawback is the huge time it takes to accomplish those tasks.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Kev, you need to put the ' over the "O".  It's pronounced Peelone. "I"s here are "E"s.  :D :D :D

  Look for the thread "A Monster of a Pilon", by CRtreedude.

[Tom]

We've discussed your tirefort in previous posts.  It's been a pretty long while back but, I remember it being compared to a come-a-long.  In one discussion a man, who was touting the tirefort, was adament about its not being like a come-a-long because it isn't dependent on the capacity of a reel. 

It requires a tie-off point on the machine end and pulls the load by "crawling" along the cable, which it pinches with a patented device.  That is why it must use the special, round, cable.

[TexasTimbers]

Okay Pee -lone. So does that stuff have similar characteristics as purpleheart? I guess I'm draggin Jorge's thread off topic that's the lst question promise. 

[Ianab]

Hi Jorge

Big logs, remote location, cutting big 4" thick cants for later resawing, plenty of manpower and limited machinery / budget... it sounds like you want a swingmill.

On those big logs you will be able to get very good production. The mill sets up over the log in about 15 mins, then each run down and back cuts either a waste slab or a 4"x8" cant. Plenty of workers will mean you start sawing the next cant as soon as the last one clears the mill. Give yourself an hour or 2 and one of those big logs will be sawn and loaded on the truck. Move mill to next log and repeat. I dont think accuracy will be a problem, obviously your customer wont want 3 1/2" boards in there, but there have to be certain tolerences in rough sawn timber. Possibly 3 7/8" to 4 1/8" ? Easily within the tolerances of the mills.

What you are planning to do is what the swingblade mills were invented for 

Cheers

Ian

[LeeB]

This tirfort thing is what I've always heard called a walky dog. Attach cable to stationary object, Walky dog to load and crank the hand to walk the winch up the stationary cable. The cable don't move, just the load. LeeB

[artenvielfalt]

Hi there,
i´m the representetive for Peterson Germany and i have to tell you get the Peterson witch model depends on where you want to cut it.
in the forest ATS,  at a site close to a road, WPF and at a fixed site, ASM.  yust get yourself informed by peterson itself.
i can tell you about my experiance as i just got back from Ivorie coast and the forestry department just bought 2 ATS for use in the forest and cutting also sapeli and other hardwoods. 
as manpower is not the factor, there were 2 teams of 6 people, i trained for them, they have a good output, but on how much i can give you figures in about half a year then they have really used the mill and work as a team and also in the forest.  just now it was training situation
on a site  and they were a little nervous beeing watched all the time. 
just give me a mail and ask again in august. 
but as i saw it there, to get spare parts it will be a big issue, if you get a bandsaw, even if they work good, in Ivorie coast it was such a problem even to get a srewdriver to change a water tube,.... the people have nothing and YOU have to have everything yourself.  think about all the hydraulik and elektric stuff on the bandmills compared to the mechanical functions on the peterson.
but contact me again in august and get better figures if you like.
cheers ULF


sorry i can still not put pictures on the forum, if someone leads me through the work, i will put the ivorie coast pictures on.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Artenvielfalt
Do you have problems reading the English ??  If not, please go to the Topic Board "Behind The Forum". There are excellent directions there for posting photos on this Forum. It really is simple.

  We would all love to see your photos.