Anyone own a Cook's AC-36 or Edger?

[TexasTimbers]

I am getting closer to maybe pulling the trigger a little earlier than I had planned on getting seriouys about production. I was going to wait until late spring early summer to go bigger but it's stupid to let thousands of free trees get pushed into the burn pile.

I am not trying to start a thread like "Talk me into a Woodmizer" because I know WM loyalty is unparalled. What I am trying to float around is comparing $$$ to $$$ for BF per dollar type thing.

I have seriously been considering the LT70, but I will have to have 4 more employees to make full use of it and an edger (not included) or else it will be wasted money over the production I am not getting.

The thing that attracts me to Cook's is their combo deal where you get the sawmill, edger, sharpener, setter, roller, and kitchen sink. It's seems to me that myself and two other guys can make full use of this combo pak and still have less out of pocket (and that's what it will be) initial expense.

There is extremely little info in the archives that I could find. I would like to hear from Cook owners their experience with their machines and service.

[Norwiscutter]

I have never scene one in operation but get my sharpening supplies through them so I have looked at their catalog and web site.  I have not heard a bad thing about them, although if you have the cash to spend I would maybe consider looking into the used market for some of the support equipment. Although some sawmills seem to retain their value fairly well on the used market, support equipment might be had for a more reasonable price. I think that if I were looking at a mill such as Cooks I would also take a hard look at the Baker mills. After looking into both options a number of times, I ended up liking best what the guys in Blue had to offer.  Even Bibby has said nice things about the Blue Mills, which says allot in itself.  I would think that any manufacture would give you a good price on a package deal like you are considering. By the way, I ended up liking the Baker because of the self contained Hydraulic lines and controls rather than the over head cable which I though might get in the way at times.

[Brad_S.]

Every roller fed edger I've seen often has a tendency to pull the boards as they go through, giving you banana shaped boards. The conveyor belt feed ones, while not immune to the problem, seem much better, IMO.

[kelLOGg]

I own the MP-32 and Cook has been very helpful to me in adding my own power feed and other mods before they incorporated them into their design. They will work with you on any problems you have. The AC36 now has concealed hydraulic lines now like the blue mills.

[Gipper]

Kevjay,

Got everything of theirs you mentioned except the band roller and the kitchen sink!!! :D  The mill, AC 36 fully hydraulic, and sharpener and setter, were delivered to me five years ago last Thursday (Jan. 18, 2002) The edger was delivered in Sept. 2005.  Definitely should have gotten the edger at the same time as the mill.  Production rate improved tremendously with the edger.  The mill has the 58 hp Volkswagon engine - I think they have now gone to the Perkins.  I ordered the edger also with a diesel engine and wish I had gotten the 4 inch rather than 2 inch edger, though the one I have does a good job.  The edger engine is a Perkins.  The edger has the conveyer belt feed, with two large, full width metal "hold down" rollers holding the board down.  If I let sawdust and sap, etc. build up on the down pressure rollers, then it will sometimes have a tendency to pull the boards.  Otherwise, no problem !

The sharpener and setter have given me absolutely no problems.  I have the small manual setter, which at first is slow, but very accurate.  I hope to upgrade to their dual tooth setter someday.  ;D I have sharpened and set a lot of blades in the five years I've had them, and they have both been trouble free and accurate.  The only problems I have had with the mill have been normal wear and tear items that can occur with any mill.  Hydraulic hose ruptures, roller guide replacement and electrical switch replacement have been the most common thing.  The overhead cable has not been a problem as far as keeping the hoses out of the way.  I have had to replace the cable one time, probably because the mill was out in the weather much longer than I anticipated.  Mill has now been under cover for about a year and a half, and I only do custom sawing when they bring their logs here.  I think they now have the hoses contained or concealed someway other than the overhead line.  At least, that's the way it looks in the latest catalogue/bullentin I received. 

We now have about 1140 hours on the mill, and have sawn approximately 240 to 250 thousand board feet.  Those numbers should tell you that I don't saw 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.  I was retired when I bought the mill, and my wife is now retired and it's just the two of us operating it.  You're right about you and two other guys making full use of the combo pak, and with good logs and material handling equipment, you will be able to turn out some good board footage in a day. 

This is the only band mill I have ever owned, so I can only speak about it, but I will say if I decided to trade it in or buy another one, I'm about 99% sure it would be another one from Cooks.  My experience with this one has been good, and as for service and standing behind their product, they have been excellent. Shoot me a PM if you want to and I'll send you my phone number if you want to talk more.

Good luck with your decision, and safe sawing!

Gipper

[TexasTimbers]

Gipper,

Thanks for that detailed review. I was hoping to hear from a Cook's owner. there aren't many on the forum here it seems.

Since I posted this I have been doing more research/thinking/waffling of course and have waffled back and forth between getting the combo pak and piecing it together over time paying for the support equpment out of mill proceeds and reworking some older equipment I already have.

I think where I stand right now is, if I can get a good enough deal on a used bandmill I will piece together the rest. I want to leave myself some operating capital apart from living expenses etc. and the money I am scraping together without taking out a loan is not going to be enough to do the 50K combo pak as I had initially thought - I didn't realize how far Acme Widget Company stock has dropped.  :

If I get the combo pak I will have very little operating expenses left and will have to pull from living expenses, building out home (we are doing so out of pocket) or liquidate some more assets, or take a short term loan, and none of the above is an option.

So I am left with buying a new mill with less goodies than I want, or holding out for a used mill with what I want and hoping one comes along in a decent time frame. We are coming up on spring quick and there will be more buyers than sellers maybe.

I could drop the money for an new LT40H and be good with the money, but I want the super with Accuset and it's out of reach new without resorting to the non-options I noted above.

So I guess I am asking for some business advice here too now seeing ow you have all that hindsight -hat would you do in my shoes?

Get the LT40H? If I buy just a new mill I want to  go Orange - Cook's are not any less money unless you get the combo pak and it is looking bleak.

Only thing I will say based on my experience thus far. I didn't have a great experience on the phone with Orange today. I know that must have been an anomoly but the guy coulkd not get me off fast enough while Tim has taken all the time I needed on 3 calls over two days. One call lasted over an hour him telling me how to fix my bandwheel problems on my manual mill not even trying to sell me a new mill.

[Vern]

I just got a Cooks MP32 mill. I am really happy with it so far. The frame
is 3x6 1/4 box beam.I bought it from a guy (hurt his back)who had the other mill so
I got a chanch to pick his brain as to why he switched. He had good to say about
both but he perfered the Cooks for several reasons.I called Cooks and
asked them why should  I buy their mill as apossed to the other.............
     I bought the Cooks..................... last mill I will buy.
            Vern

[PineNut]

Like my Cooks MP32. Had a couple of problems and their customer service was outstanding.

[Gipper]

Kevjay,

I'll try to offer a few more thoughts without getting too long-winded!  I try not to spout the virtues of any company or product, nor do I try to downgrade any company or product by saying the one I own is superior to others without ever having used the other products as I have used mine.  The orange mills are good mills (I have a lathe-mizer, but haven't been able to free my mill up long enough to use it yet  >:( :-[ )  The blue mills are good mills.  And there are other red mills out there other than like ours that are good mills.  It all comes down to which one best meets the needs of the individual buying the mill.  I looked for about a year and half before making the final decision.  I too, was first one way, then back a different direction.  I went to wood shows and had just about decided, then drove for about four hours, to watch a demo of the AC 36.  On the way home, the wife and I decided that it was the one we wanted.  We ordered it the next week, and approximately 6 weeks later it arrived and we are still sawing on it.  Two things I will mention that I failed to mention in last post is (1) it is a heavy built mill and is extremely well balanced for towing.  (2) The contols for loading the log, turning and clamping the logs seems misplaced being on the swing arm, but now that is one of the things I like best and it wasn't hard to get used to.

Now some additional points for you to ponder:  If you spring for a new mill with less than what you want, will you be happy with it, or will interest start diminishing when it doesn't do all you would like it to?

If you get a mill and don't have a sharpener, what will you do about the sharpening?  About all the companies have re-sharp services.  Have you thought about the cost for that and figured it into your overall plan?  

Are you going to incorporate your business or maybe go as an LLC business.  If so, maybe there would be some small business loans available.  Sometimes those can have very favorable terms.  

The used route might be best if time constraints will permit being patient.  Anything I have ever bought used, the next week I always found advertised for less money. :D  I'm sure you probably have already been looking at sawmill exhange.  Also, I think all three of the companies you have looked at have used equipment sites, as do most of the mill companies.  

Another thing to consider would be delivery costs.  If you pick the mill up and pull it home yourself, will you have to pay the local taxes?  Most likely you will, but what will that sum be?  What cost will you have in going to pick it up?  These are small issues, but can add up.  Our lathe-mizer was shipped, and I still had to pay taxes on it.  Recently bought some blades from them, and did not have to pay taxes on them.  Haven't figured that out yet.  Liked the blades, so will probably order some more.

You're certainly right about Tim taking the time to talk with you about the mill, or in this case an issue you were having with your current mill.  I spent a lot of time on the phone with Tim and Steven, even after the mill was delivered.  Some of my questions were trivial I'm sure, but I had been used to a circle mill, and this was a whole new world of sawing for me.  Sometimes, if Tim and Steven were on another line or out of town, a technical question would get referred back to the shop to Billy, and I must say all three have always been very courteous and helpful.

In the end, like has been said on here in similar discussions, it's what ultimately meets the needs of the individual buyer.  You know more than anyone else what it takes to meet your individual needs and help you meet your goals.  I have just tried to throw out some ideas you may or may not have thought about.  I hope it has been some help.  Best of luck.

Gipper

[Norwiscutter]

Does it have to be portable?
How much do you have to saw?
Will it be every day?
How many employees?

I really think that the actual type of mill you have will not be your most important decision that need to be made. I bought used despite the limitations my mill presented.(length, portability) I figured that even with the price on an extension, I would still be way ahead of the game. What about a D&L Double Cut? I know there is someone on here that has one for sale on the sawmill exchange. With one of those, you would not need an edger.

[TexasTimbers]

Does it have to be portable?

Not really. I am not excited about becoming a moblie sawyer just wanted to have the option

How much do you have to saw?

millions of BF hopefully

Will it be every day?

Pretty much once the house is finished

How many employees?

2 + me.

What about a D&L Double Cut? I know there is someone on here that has one for sale on the sawmill exchange. With one of those, you would not need an edger.

I don't know anything about swingmills and doublecuts. I have had a PM about a swingmill but I just don't think it is what I need.
Thanks for the input. One of thre mills I am looking at is electric. I sure do like that possibility if I am convinced they can be run trouble-free with a convertor. i run my big old Oliver table saw on a convertor but it is only 5HP (7.5 HP by todays standards I am told by Eagle) but a sawmill needs a 25HP+. So I am looking at that option too.

[TexasTimbers]

What about a D&L Double Cut?

Well I didn't want to be closedminded so I called D&L. Went to their website first. I must admnit that is one fascinating mill. The website is pretty much obsolete. They no longer make either model listed on it, and they now make a bandsaw mil that is not on the website.
the 30 and 48 are discontinued and they have been replaced by a 36 and a 50 I believe she said.

She is sending me some lit but I have to say that they are well over my price range. Looks like great engineering though.
Wish people took their wensites more seriously though.

thaks for the headsup on that anyway - curiouys how the production per hour would compare to a bandmill and edger.

[Norwiscutter]

I really think you will probably be pretty happy with whatever you get.  I think we all tend to look over the fence and like want what the other guy has got.  That being said, if I was going to base an operation only on production, then something with a circle blade is likely where I would end up going.  That being said, if I had somewhere to go with the lumber, I would be able to keep two guys pretty busy with the set up I have. I would keep looking for a good deal on something used, regardless of the brand.

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,

Bibbyman's Woodmizer is set up with a phase converter.  He loves it so you should have no problems.  You can even use the phase converter for more 3 phase equipment in the long run.

Bibbyman's thread on his new mill

Farmerdoug

[leweee]

Kevin....you going to get that circle mill hummen or what ??? : ;D

[TexasTimbers]

Doug that was a fantastic link. Thank you for brining it to my attention. It makes a man want to go electric for sure. I have no compunction at all to get into mobile sawing anyway so if I can grab an electric one I guess I could really like it. Cheaper to run, quieter, almost no maintenance, more power. What's not to like.
Thanks again.

[TexasTimbers]

leweee,

For now, let's just pretend I don't even have one shall we?

[SAW MILLER]

I have been sawing for a logging family for about three months and they want me to saw out a shed  to put up over their frick mill and I,m thinkin..whats wrong with this picture?I guess they like my mizer lumber. ??? ???

[TexasTimbers]

Oh I am looking forwrd to getting it going for sure I just don't want to have to think about it until I get the decks cleared al little. I think it's worth having it just to get the slabs knocked off with.

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,  Mobile custom sawing is not done by everyone.  Personally I have only custom sawed for people that bring their logs to me.  I guess if the job was a big one I might be tempted but there is alot of extra work in moving so I would price accordingly.

Farmerdoug

[TexasTimbers]

I already know I don't want to do any mobile sawing for others. the only reason I would want to be able to drag my sawmill elsewhere is to take it to MIL properties in East Texas and saw for myself there, and bring back lumber instead of logs. But I have so many logs locally now I realy don't need hers except for the pine. We don't have pine here. So if I want to cut a bunch of pine timbers for the timber framing projuects I will just have to do what i have always done and haul the logs in.
It is n't that much more of a hassle for me to just haul the logs here than to haul the sawmill there, set up, cut it all and stay over night each night until I have cut what I want, then have to bring sawmill back and then go back and load up timbers.
Easier just to haul logs here and sleep in my own bed everynight or have to do the 2 hour commute.
Electric stationary is sounding better and better.

[Norm]

We've got the electric version and couldn't be happier. When I first started thinking about a mill I was torn about going with electric versus being able to move it. Now that I've had my mill for a few years I'm very happy with my decision. No refueling, oil changes, filter changes, fumes and the list goes on.

If you want to make a living sawing for others at their place it's not the way to go.

[TexasTimbers]

What HP and where did you get your convertor etc.
I wonder if putting a single phase on it would be spitting in the wind. Uses some % more than 3 phase I forget the amount it is not negligble.

[TexasTimbers]

Got another question too. Isn't an 85 HP diesel overkill for a 36" mobile bandsaw?

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,

Have you ever seen a 1PH 25HP motor?  I have and it will not fit on any mill that you are looking at.  3PH motors are alot smaller for the HP because they are using an extra leg.  Heck I do not think you would like the price of a 1PH motor of that size.

85hp runs a bigger blade faster and you cut more BF per hour too.

Farmerdoug

[Norwiscutter]

I run a phase converter as well.  I recomend one to everyone when they build a shop.  Not to expensive, not to bad to install, and it gives you tons of options with different shop equipment.

[Norwiscutter]

I went through a company out of wisconsin called American Rotery.  Have delt with them a number or times for different stuff and have only had positive experiences. When put up against all the other pricey stuff a guy looks at getting when he considers a sawmill, the phase converter cost really don't seam that bad.

[Norm]

I bit the bullet and had 3 phase run to our farm, not an option for lots of folks.

My feeling is that band blades of the size we use can only take so much hp, my personal opinion is that anything over 55hp is a waste of money.

[TexasTimbers]

I am going to have to buy a bigger phase convertor anyway whether I get a electric mill or not. I am going to have a shop full of new (to me) 3 phase woodworking equipment later this year too.
Getting an electric mill would mean re-arranging the whole 2 acre lot I would either have to run 100+ feet of 4 strands of probably #3 if I have done my pie chart right from memory.
i went to WM sight and it says a 25HP motor is rated at 18Kwatts so at 240 which is what my V runs out there then I am looking at roughly 70 - 75 amps unless my math is bad. very possible don't have a calculator handy. so without having an NEC handy I am guessing the voltage drop is not going to be bad over 100' but to be safe I would need to run some #2 for the sawmill, or else patk it under the existing lean-to and not have to run all that wire.
Have to find a good deal on an electric mill first eh.
Someone check my figures I think they are wrong 75 amps seems to high for running a 25HP 3 phase.

[Norwiscutter]

I think you are pretty close. I believe I have mine(mill) on a 100 amp breaker, although I don't think my converter is capable of producing more than 87 amps or something like that.

[TexasTimbers]

I could save a few dollars on the ground wire think NEC lets ya drop 2 sizes for equipment ground in this case. But when we are talking all this much coin what is a $50 bill worth? ..... A good steak dinner for me and the Boss Lady that's what! 8)

[TexasTimbers]

Well I just got finished reading the swingmill thread started by treebucker a couple weeks ago. That pretty much ruled out me getting one. Half of my logs are too little to be optimized by a swinger and it is the log turning that is my achilles heel with my manual mill. Back to the hydraulic bandmill. Had a little detour there all better now.  :

I feel like a ping pong ball.

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,

I know how you feel.  I was there a little over a year ago.
;D
I see that there is alot of good mills on the Sawmill Exchange now.  There is even a logmaster in Michigan for a good price.  Had that been there when I purchased my Woodmizer I would have certainly been tempted by that one.

Farmerdoug

[TexasTimbers]

Doug no kidding that LM5 is on my short, short list. Which is why I asked if 85HP was overkill yesterday. Overkill or not the price is right eh.

[TexasTimbers]

Oh you are talking about the LM3 - you like that better ?

[farmerdoug]

Actually I like both of them but for the price the LM5 is great.  When I was looking for a mill there was only one for sale of any brand in Michigan and he wanted way more than I could afford.  It is the travel distance that would have been the deciding factor.  I was looking at the Logmasters alot when the Woodmizer I bought came up.  It was located in PA but I jumped on it right away for it was a good deal.  I ended up buying a LT40SH with a 42HP Kubota diesel loaded with everything but a debarker for 20 grand even.  My buddy and me drove there and back the same day.  Talked about a long day.

Farmerdoug

[TexasTimbers]

Well hold the DanG phone  - Furby has got me looking at something else - and it makes enough sense to me that I gotta mull it over and run it past 3 others that has a seat at my round table. I am awaitiing answers from them.


Sincerely, PingPongMan.  smiley_anxious

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,

I seen your mention on another thread about your mill in Michigan.  I take it that you have finally picked one.  What mill are you getting?  ???  After all we are rooting for you. 8) 8)


Farmerdoug

[TexasTimbers]

I am getting Hawby's LT40HD Super if the Canadians will quit this nonsense. Now, they are blaming the Eskimos you know.

[farmerdoug]

Kevjay,  Good choice not that I thought you would make a bad one that is. :  You will like the Super.  That is what I have and it is a common mill among members here too.  You will have to visit some members while in Michigan.  Maybe you will even get to Jeff's place too. 8) 8) 8)

Farmerdoug