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Got my well and septic permit! Now the work begins.

Started by Thehardway, January 21, 2007, 07:01:48 PM

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Thehardway

After a long wait I got it!  First time out  in late Nov. Health inspector hit rock on test bores  so he requested a backhoe.  After all the rain we've had delaying I finally got an excavator on sight Fri.  After about 2 hours of me digging 8 holes and him scratching his head he finally saw some dirt he thought he could live with and gave me the OK.

Now I have a lot more digging to do. He wants 10-70' lines.  1500 gal tank with a splitter and 2 distribution boxes.  Won't be cheap or easy to install but at least I avoided a pump back system or expensive engineering fees. 

Have any of you installed gravelless systems such as the Infiltrator system?  It would save me hauling a lot of gravel which is expensive where I am at due to the distance from the gravel pit (40 mi.) and delivery charges.  Don't know what the cost difference would be.

The driveway is in and the foundation is excavated.  This week I should get plan approval and talk to the well driller.  Things are beginning to move!
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Joel Eisner

Woo hooo.......  Good job Bob.  We used a ~10" sock pipe.  It worked well.  They required us to back fill around it with sand but when the soil was sandy they let us fill with the dirt from the trenches.  No gravel.  Let me know when things get moving.  We will try and come for a few days and help out. 

joel
The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

Raphael

  Great news about the septic...  We wound up with a fully engineered pumping system that placed out leach fields over 500ft. from our tanks.  About triple the cost of a simple gravity setup.  ::)  No gravel here either just lots of engineered septic sand.
  I think the only thing holding the State of CT together is red tape so to my point of view your work is over and now the real fun begins.  Enjoy the process and post lots of pictures.  ;)
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

DSO

Some of the counties in Michigan approve the use of infiltrator systems.  In sandy soil conditions conditions they seem to work well.  I believe the materials cost is very similar to that of conventional tile and gravel.  But they are much easier to work with especially if you don't have gravel readily available.  There are also systems being used in Michigan called EZ-Flow.  The plastic drain tiles are incased in a 12" bundle of styrafoam packing peanuts.  Again, no gravel is used.  Very easy to work with all you have to do is dig the trench and install the bundles level.  The use of recycled tires in place of gravel has also been approved in some counties in MI. 

I have never installed any of these systems, but have seem many go in. 

The bottom line is that you have to get with your local health authority, in your case, the guy that was scratching his head for two hours, and find out if these alternative methods for on-site sewage disposal are approved for use in your area.  Good luck!! 

Mr Mom

     I feel sorry for the news houses being built in Ohio the new septic laws are not good.
     The new septic is to cost 20 grand alone.
     I dont know if the new law has started yet. There is a big fight about it.
     Maybe someone with more insite can ring in here.


     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Raphael

Quote from: Mr Mom on January 22, 2007, 12:22:22 PM
     I feel sorry for the news houses being built in Ohio the new septic laws are not good.
     The new septic is to cost 20 grand alone.
Ouch, at least I had some choice in the matter.
Are they requiring some sort of gallery system?
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Thehardway

Project update!  I'm kinda floating on cloud 9 right now.  Took my plans for approval today and they passed without a hitch.  Inspector had some questions all of which I was able to answer to his satisfaction.    I now have all my permits and I'm ready to roll with footers.  Pictures will be forthcoming.

Well driller is supposed to be coming to look at the site soon.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

scgargoyle

Who drew up your plans? Are they stamped by an engineer? That's one thing I'm paranoid about once I start building in SC.
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

Joel Eisner

Woo hoo Bob!!!!   8)  8)  8)

Thanks for the pictures.  The picknic table with KFC brings back memories of the two years of "family" meals while puting up our place.

Joel
The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

Don P

Awesome, now the easy part begins 8) 8)

I can tell you it varies tremendously by county and region here SC. I've been working one job within sight of a 3 county corner. Each of those counties has different enforcement... I mean way different  :D. You'll have to chat with your inspector before you get too far along to get a real answer. A heads up to what is coming down the pike. The 06 code, when adopted by states, is going to have much tougher foundation rules, basically requiring an engineer. If we hold to our normal adoption speed that will happen here around 09, some states adopted it while the ink was still wet.

Thehardway

I drew my own plans.  The plans were approved by the county code compliance office and they did not require an engineers stamp. This is however the largest geographic and lowest average income county in the state.  I was very surprised, especially since I am doing ICF walls, Timberframe truss and rafters with R42 6.5" polyurethane SIP panels over top covered with steel roof. This isn't the stuff they see everyday. He questioned me about documentation on the panels and wants to see the manufacturers verification that they will span the 8'OC trusses/rafters.  He seemed OK with the timber portion and the ICF portion although I told him I was more than willing to get an engineers stamp or provide documentation of the soundness of the design if he would like.  I may still do it just for my own piece of mind.  As for the foundation I am over-engineering it a bit.  A little extra concrete and rebar will add little to the cost or labor but go a long way in building trust and conficence with the inspectors.  I expect this house will withstand a small nuke attack.  Will definitely hold up to any Hurricane, Tornado, and probably earthquake as well and being almost fireproof.  Will be interesting to see how the Inspection schedule goes.  There is no framing, no insulation, and electrical (infrared remote conrolled)/ mechanical (radiant floor heat in slab/ hydronic cooling with geothermal heat pump and passive solar assist) will be unconventional as well.



I have a very aggressive schedule and plan to be dried in by June and have CO by July doing all of it myself.  My budget for the first phase 1000 Sq ft. guest house cottage is $45K.  That includes sitework, septic, and well. 

Now if only the weather would warm up for a week so I can pour footers and get things rolling. 8)

Here are a couple pics taken fri. night of the shed and sunset from the homesite looking at Smith Mt. 







Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

mur

Hi Thehardway:

I installed septics in an earlier life during summers when there was no logging happening.  I did a lot of systems.  The Infiltrator system is the only way to go.  Simple, fast and effective.  Highly recommended.
Don't dream it, be it.

Raider Bill

Quote from: Thehardway on February 04, 2007, 10:02:44 PM
I drew my own plans.    I was very surprised, especially since I am doing ICF walls, Timberframe truss and rafters with R42 6.5" polyurethane SIP panels over top covered with steel roof. I have a very aggressive schedule and plan to be dried in by June and have CO by July doing all of it myself.  My budget for the first phase 1000 Sq ft. guest house cottage is $45K.  That includes sitework, septic, and well. 

Now if only the weather would warm up for a week so I can pour footers and get things rolling. 8)

Here are a couple pics taken fri. night of the shed and sunset from the homesite looking at Smith Mt. 





How is this project going? I'm doing the samer thing as you ICF with timber frame. Are you cutting your own timbers?
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Thehardway

I have the excavation work done and the footers formed and inspected.  I hope to pour them Fri. If the weather holds off.  I have been pulling my hair out trying to think of every possible penetration I may need or want in the future so I can put sleeves in the footer.  Working with concrete on this scale really requires that you think ahead. The well was drilled last Wed. and we got water.  8) Waiting on the Power company to bury the power line and set transformer so we can install the pump and have water on site.  Once the footers are poured and set the forms will be delivered. (3-4 days for delivery)

I am planning to mill the timbers for the roof myself from logs.  I plan to do this and cut the joinery while the walls are curing.  Weather has put me a little behind schedule.  I can't get concrete up the driveway after soaking rain without rutting things up pretty bad.

Will try to get some pictures up soon of the progress or lack thereof :-\
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Raider Bill

Sorry if I asked this before but what ICF system are you using?

I've been looking at AMVIC only because they have a dist nearby [cleveland, tn]. Although he hasn't returned any calls.

What do you plan to use for bracing?

What is your timber frame spacing going to be for the roof system?

When them big mud trucks start lining up things tend to get moving right along. That's not the time to remember you forgot something. That mud stuff doesn't wait for no man.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

krusty

interesting difference on septic systems....here I built mine with 5 x 8 meter runs and a 1000 gallon tank for a 1400 sq' home.

all I needed was 3' of sand under the piping and i was set. this was on difficult soil with rock just under the surface.

certainly our diets are not that far apart that we cant use similar systems! Thats what engineers  VS politicians are supposed to be for.

I spend $7500 for all materials including sand and did it all myself.

Thehardway

I am going with Rewards 6"  (11" overall) iForms.  The spacing for the roof will be 8' OC between wall and kingpost truss in the great room and principle rafters in the loft area.  Planing to span the 8' with SIPS.  Corrugated Metal roof over the SIP's. Native stone will be laid up for 2' around house with HardiPanel siding above that.
Using Hydronic/Radiant heating and cooling system with PEX in the concrete floors and hang a couple small fan coils.
Will use 2X lumber for bracing and re-use for interior partition walls.

Feel free to email if you would like to discuss details etc.  ICF is a little off topic for the forestry forum although it has become very popular fro basements/foundations of timberframes and logcabins alike.  I view my project as a timberframing throwback to the medieval days when masonry walls were used and then wood was used to span it for the roof.

G. Stickley advocated the use of a concrete wall system in many of his Craftsman home designs. 


Krusty,
The soil work was done for 4 Bedroom 4000sq.ft home which is what it will be when I'm finished.  I could have done much less if I wasn;t planning for the bigger house to be built afterwards. It is definitely not a dietary issue!
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Raider Bill

Quote from: krusty on May 09, 2007, 03:48:30 PM
interesting difference on septic systems....here I built mine with 5 x 8 meter runs and a 1000 gallon tank for a 1400 sq' home.

all I needed was 3' of sand under the piping and i was set. this was on difficult soil with rock just under the surface.

certainly our diets are not that far apart that we cant use similar systems! Thats what engineers  VS politicians are supposed to be for.

I spend $7500 for all materials including sand and did it all myself.

That seems pretty high to me. My qoutes are for no more than $3K for the 1000 gallon model. Nothing fancy.

Quote from: Thehardway on May 09, 2007, 04:56:51 PM
I am going with Rewards 6"  (11" overall) iForms.  The spacing for the roof will be 8' OC between wall and kingpost truss in the great room and principle rafters in the loft area.  Planing to span the 8' with SIPS.  Corrugated Metal roof over the SIP's. Native stone will be laid up for 2' around house with HardiPanel siding above that.
Using Hydronic/Radiant heating and cooling system with PEX in the concrete floors and hang a couple small fan coils.
Will use 2X lumber for bracing and re-use for interior partition walls.

you been peaking at my plans? This is almost excatly how I'm doing it. I will have drive out basement and no radiant heat, plus I was going to use native stone from my property but in 3 days of bull dozing I didn't see one single rock, stone or pebble, weird. Above the rock  I am still undecided. I like batten and board but don't like maintaince.

Feel free to email if you would like to discuss details etc.  ICF is a little off topic for the forestry forum although it has become very popular fro basements/foundations of timberframes and logcabins alike.  I view my project as a timberframing throwback to the medieval days when masonry walls were used and then wood was used to span it for the roof.

G. Stickley advocated the use of a concrete wall system in many of his Craftsman home designs. 


I'd hate to take this topic off site as the knowldge base here is immense. I don't think the day goes by I don't learn something from reading this forum.
I can understand the pride a tradtionalist has for their trade and I respect that but having heavy timber trusses sitting on top of concrete walls is still at least partial timberframe and relevent. IMHO

What's your footprint size?
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Tom

QuoteWhat's your footprint size?

You just don't know how hard it is to stay out of this.  :D :D

You are right about discussing things off of the forum.  This is a different place than most forums.  We try to find a place for most anything constructive.  We all learn that way.  :)  As long as we are sitting around the stove and butting in, we're having a good time.  As soon as folks take their talk to the corner of the room or outside, the rest of us lose them.

As long as the conversation is what you wouldn't mind your 10 year old daughter listening to, it's usually OK.  If not, we'll sure say something  :)

Thehardway

OK then, I will continue to intrigue some and bore others with my ICF timberframe drivel.

The footprint is 25'W X 33" L outside corner to outside corner. Here is the basic layout for the cottage guesthouse.





Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Raider Bill

What did you use to draw that with? Sketchup? I noticed you have french doos that open in. Arne't these special order so more expensive than outswing?
Also I found a forum that has extensive ICF info
greenbuilding talk.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Tom

I think it's a pretty cool design.  Kiwi Charlie was looking for some designs for small cabins awhile back.  I'll bet he could have used something like this.

Don P

Actually inswing in residential is stock, outswing is special order. I prefer a "patio" door, one fixed, one swings, they are generally tighter.

That looks like about 1000 sf, not that small.

Raider Bill

Quote from: Don P on May 12, 2007, 03:02:59 PM
Actually inswing in residential is stock, outswing is special order. I prefer a "patio" door, one fixed, one swings, they are generally tighter.
Must be a florida wind hurricane code. Here outswings are stock and in-swings are special order for about 3-4 times the price.
I really like the design, simple.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Thehardway

Drawing was done with Microsoft Visio TE.  I have a number of CAD type drawing programs but find Visio simple and quick for general purpose. 

I think you must be correct about the FL code on inswing doors.  Like Don, I have never seen outswing around here. 

I tried to keep the design simple and functional following in the Craftsman tradition. I hate hallways and think they are wasted space, hence the walk through closet.  I also tried to keep it fully accesible for handicap and with easy and efficient traffic patterns.  I have added a front porch since I did those renderings.  I am also going to provide a knockout for a future exterior door off the bedroom.

The cottage may double for future use as a B&B or inlaw-suite once the main house is built.  I am in a subdivision zoned R-1 so I may have to remove the kitchen when I build the main house to comply with zoning regs, which will leave a quite spacious guest quarters.  It will feel larger also as the ceilings will be very high.

I think I might have a solution to my Treated Wood window and door buck issues.  I think I will insert a peice of Trex type composite decking next to the Concrete and then screw standard kiln dried dimension lumber for the windo and door rough opening.  It is stable, will not absorb moisture and the width dimensions will adapt well to my purpose.  What do y'all think?

Also interested in ideas on flooring for the loft area.  Not crazy about using OSB inside.  Plywood is high$. Have thought about putting a T&G bit on my router or using a shiplap joint and turning some 2X lumber into flooring or cutting some pine on my mill.   For the price of the plywood and flooring I could purchase a pretty nice planer.





Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

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