Whats this guy up to

EZ · February 15, 2003, 05:00:42 AM

This guy(maybe customer) has about 40 trees down, oak,cherry, walnut, ash. Their down in a small valley of his land, he has 90 acres & he farms it, he has 3 tractors. I went over yesterday & told him that he wood have to pull them up out of their. He ask me if I could saw them up where they lay, I told him I would have to use his tractor to pull the mill down around their, he didnt like that ideal. So I told him I wood have to wait till summer when it's dry. He said they have to be out of there before spring, I drove DD down in there & almost got stuck. I told him he was going to have to get someone in there to log them out. Then he said, if he hauls the logs to my place, can I saw them up & sell the boards. :-/ I told him that I wood let him know.
For one thing I have never sold lumber at my place, I've always just sawed for people. I dont know what to do, I dont refuse jobs, but.......
EZ

woodhaven · February 15, 2003, 05:52:10 AM

Hey EZ,
You might want to sleep with one eye open from beginning to end on this one. Sounds like someone is trying to rope you into something!!!!!!

Brian_Bailey · February 15, 2003, 05:53:14 AM

EZ - I don't like the sounds of this guy. Maybe it would be a good one to step away from. Are they really his logs?? Before I did any sawing for him, I would have his instructions in writing and his signature on the piece of paper, just to CYA.

Frank_Pender · February 15, 2003, 05:59:13 AM

It sure sounds like a, "box you in" deal to me. I would design two or three ports fof exit and none for entry in this deal. If you do saw it for him at your residence, just that. Let him market his own lumber cut to your specs and get it in writing as well as notorized. With this kind of action on your part he may realize that he does not have a roadside turnip sawmiller on his hands. ;D

ARKANSAWYER · February 15, 2003, 06:19:05 AM

EZ
CYA is the first rule of combat.

I would get a signed contract and have him bring the logs to me and him sell the lumber and you get paid for the sawing. There are some strange birds out there. When you live on a ranch you soon learn to look where you are stepping.
ARKANSAWYER

Kevin · February 15, 2003, 07:05:27 AM

You're too EZ. ;D

Quotecan I saw them up & sell the boards

Yes
and
NO

Ron Wenrich · February 15, 2003, 08:41:47 AM

If you don't want to deal with this guy, refer him to a local logger. He can get the wood out in pretty quick time and pay the guy for the logs. It doesn't seem like the lumber is real important to him. Maybe he just wants to get rid of the logs.

Sometimes you got to know when to walk away from deals.

EZ · February 15, 2003, 10:36:13 AM

Well the bad thing about the whole thing is I've known & work with him for 25 yrs at the shop, at lease I think I know him. I just finish sawing his neighbors (130 trees) & I wood kinda like to keep it cool down their, cause the power company is cutting trees down every where. I get 1 guy p.o. at me then I might be done altogether down their, because of the word of the mouth thing. I guess I wood like to know if theirs a chance in selling this stuff for him.
EZ

OneWithWood · February 15, 2003, 11:00:46 AM

EZ,
There is always a chance. If you have not sold lumber before the odds are long that you will move it any time soon. But you could get lucky. I would ask to be paid up front for the milling and ask for a 50% share in any proceeds from the lumber. If he says no, you were not the one to walk away. If he says yes you aren't out anything.

EZ · February 15, 2003, 11:42:52 AM

When I told him that if he hauls them out here, I wood saw them for 15 cents bf, his eyes lite up like a lite bulb. I told him if I sell some, I want 20%, if I have to deliver it I want 50%, he agreed. I will have all this wrote up sign, sealed, & delivered. Will see, he just called & said he was going to keep the walnut logs. Everytime he talks to me he changes something.
I dont know how I get myself into these things, but they always turn out ok, I guess. Thats me tho EZ, boy does that name ever fit me.
EZ, the ez guy :-/

Tom · February 15, 2003, 01:31:31 PM

Well understood, EZ. I think we all ride that line of being taken advantage of most of the time. It is especially difficult when you are dealing with a neighbor or family. I'm cheering for you to "Pull the Fat out of the Fire" and come up smilling like a rose. :D

DanG · February 15, 2003, 05:39:06 PM

It sounds like he's trying to play you for a bargain. If it may mean better conditions down the road, it might be in your best interest to risk taking a loss, or reduced profit. Maybe you could saw on shares, and try to sell your part later. By the time it is air dried, you should be able to develop a market for it. Just make sure your half doesn't come out of the scrap pile.

EZ · February 15, 2003, 06:15:45 PM

DanG,
Very interesting thought, thats probably one of the best. Thank you, thank you very much.
EZ

ADfields · February 16, 2003, 04:05:38 AM

Sawing for shares 50/50 is done a lot in Alaska and it works fine if you dont mind the lag time on the money or need the wood. If your playing with an old hand your likeley to get a bit took but I just cant seam to learn nothing no other way than to get took. :

My standerd deal is thay ask befor hand and bring good cleen logs to my yard I will cut it for 50/50 split, if I stack it thay pick the pile if thay stack I pick. Sometimes I just saw a log for a log. Most guys want this deal then after seeing how hard it is to move a log no longer want to move twice as meny of them and ask can thay just pay.
Andy

Ron Wenrich · February 16, 2003, 04:12:48 AM

So, have you decided how you're going to market the wood? Sawing for shares is OK, as long as you have an outlet.

EZ · February 16, 2003, 05:24:09 AM

Ok, I'll try to make this short. I've been at the shop for 25 yrs, half the shop has already moved to Mexico, & still moving things out. I fugure I have about 2 yrs before they close the doors. I'm trying to get in things that I can make a go with, without getting in way to deep. I do understand it take money to make money. This is why in one of my post I ask about building storage building, & another about the wooden boxes. I have sold lumber without advertising, just by people that know me. I do know alot of people all around the state & outside the state. I feel by advertising other ways I could sell lumber without hurting other business. I'm not trying to put others out of business, I just want to make a living, the honest way, & if it calls for working my butt off, I willing. I always think, others have done it & succeeded & some have not. I want to be one that has succeeded, I have to. I really appreciate the answers that I got, & hope they keep coming. Thank you sawyers & to the Forestry Forum.
EZ

Minnesota_boy · February 16, 2003, 06:04:51 AM

It seems that you are looking into the future and that's good. You can do pretty well with custom sawing or any derivation of that, if you do a few things. Do a little advertising, be willing to do jobs that nobody else will take if they can be profitable, be reliable. Find a niche that needs to be filled.

I try very hard to be the reliable one here. If I tell someone that I will be at their place at 8:30 on Monday the 14th, I'd better be turning in their driveway at 8:29 on that Monday or have a good excuse why not (and call to explain why not). I saw almost any job that comes along until I get my calendar so filled that I have to turn jobs away. I send these jobs out to other sawyers. Sometimes I get called back and asked if I can please take the job because the other guy doesn't show up or does a poor job. I may cause another sawyer to lose his mill because i took jobs away from him. No, that isn't quite right, he gave the jobs to me by being unreliable.

Don't be afraid to accept a job that may not be profitable or have minimal profit, because those people talk to other people and will often give good remarks on how you did the job that nobody else would. Occasionally you will have to turn a job away because it will be so unprofitable or be such a problem that it will not be worth doing. Try to have some alternative to offer the prospective customer. You can claim that you are so booked ahead that the material will deteriorate or have a breakdown and offer to help find another to saw. You may still get the job, but you will be in a better position to negotiate if the customer comes begging.

Do good work, but don't do it too cheap. You can do a little checking around and find out the going rate and match it or undercut it a little to help get started. Do an accurate scale of the material you saw and then be willing to give a "little" break on the price. Do this up front, before the customer asks and they will feel an obligation to you and send you work as they talk to your neighbors.

dail_h · February 16, 2003, 10:24:06 PM

EZ,
I've read all these posts,all good advice.One thing nobody mentioned is that this guy may not know what he really wants,or know enough about lumber and sawing to ask the right questions,or make the right offer. Just a thought.

DanG · February 17, 2003, 06:51:41 AM

EZ, Minn_boy is right. You won't put anybody out of business with your mill. The ones that fail will do so on their own merit.

It seems you are in much the same situation as me, looking at the job going away, and having to make a living in the future. My plan, and it keeps changing as I learn, is to add as much value to my wood as I can. Primarily, I want to get into flooring and panelling. There is a huge building boom developing in my area, and I intend to participate. To do this, I want to put in a good-sized kiln, and a planer mill, and sell my products directly to the contractors. I could also provide a kiln service to other sawyers in the area, thereby becoming a partner with them, instead of just another competitor.

The scary part, for me, is the insecurity of my income, if I get sick, or injured. I've been accustomed to having a safety net for a lot of years, and I'm real nervous about walking out on that wire without one. I've just got to come up with a way for my business to support me and my wife, if I'm unable to do the work, myself. My retirement pension won't even buy groceries, once my health insurance is paid. :-/

MrMoo · February 17, 2003, 09:32:20 AM

Minn_boy,
I like your reply. Your giving the customer alternatives not just letting them figure it out. I work in corporate writing software and over the years I found that just saying something isn't right or it won't work is not enough you need to supply answers or alternatives. From what Minn_boy is saying the same rules apply when dealing with customers.

Fla._Deadheader · February 17, 2003, 03:00:51 PM

Het DanG. Know of maybe 5-10 acres up your way?? I been thinkin?? :

:

DanG · February 17, 2003, 09:41:27 PM

Harold, they's oodles of land for sale up here, right now. St. Joe Paper...er...Land Development Co. is selling off all of their smaller parcels, and there are a lot of them. They're asking $2000 per acre, but it can be had for less. A buddy of mine just bought 25 for $1700 per. They're trying to cut all the merchantable timber before they sell, but that ain't always happening. My bud got the trees with his. 8) 8)