HELPPPP!

[stumpy]

I need some expert advice.  This is my first year sawing frozen logs (mostly oak) I have been having trouble with blades. I have broken 3 within the last week and had 4 or 5 "pop" off. I have been using Lenox woodmaster c. I've tried slowing down the feed rate, reduced the set to .015, tried no lube and tried alot of lube(mixure of ww fluid/water/pinesol). One thing I've noticed that I haven't seen before is a buildup of crup on the backside of the blade.  Other than the logs being frozen, there is nothing different about the logs or how I am sawing.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Larry]

Check your wheel bearings for play...sounds like one is bad.

And no...I'm not even close to an expert. ;)

[Tom]

I think you are right, Larry.  When blades begin breaking, there is usually something else wrong than tooth configuration.  Of course I've put blades on my mill that I mis-ground and the results were horrible.   I think you need to look in the area of guides, band lubrication, tension and maybe wheel line-up.

There is one thing that comes to mind.  If you are using V-belts, and they are worn, the edges of the bandwheel will come in contact with the band. You can tell this because the iron on the bandwheel next to the  band will have shiny spots.  When this happens, bands will break.

[Brad_S.]

What jumped out at me wasn't so much the breaking issue (sometimes blades all reach the end of their life cycle at the same time) but the throwing issue. When I start throwing blades, it's almost always a tire/v belt issue.

When your blades pop off, are you in a cut or out in the open? Are the bands being tossed off the front of the wheels into the guard or off the back and getting bound up behind the bandwheel?
On my mill, (not a WM), I will throw a blade outside of a cut and (usually) off the back of the wheel if my v-belts have lost their crown and I have too much lube flowing.

I also concur that alignment can cause issues as well.

Winter sawing is challenging under the best of conditions and will point out any minor problems you have in a hurry. You southern sawyers have no idea how much fun it is trying to carry an icy, frozen log on a set of forks at 20°!   :D

[Tom]

frozen log on a set of forks at 20°!

smiley_turkey_hide  Not ME!!

If it gets that cold, a fella shouldn't even be outside. smiley_old_guy

[Coon]

Tom you must be a wuss.  The other day when it was -40C with the windchill I went out for a walk to get the mail, then shovelled snow and split up some slab wood for starting the fire.  I never did start the fire in the garage though when it was that cold out because I didn't see any sense on trying to heat an uninsulated garage.  I would have still frozen my fingers trying to do something in there with the fire going.

[Tom]

I'm a wuss alright.  :D :D

I would have still been in bed, under the mattress. :D

[Bibbyman]

What hook angle are your blades ground to?  I've used 9° on dry and on frozen logs with better results.  Wood-Mizer makes a 4° blade for those really hard logs.

[woodmills1]

the only woodmasters I used cut like mad but broke sooner than my woodmizer blades.  If your mill is a woodmizer dont forget to check the little set screw behind the middle blade cover.

Who does your sharpening, don't forget to see if the stress cracks are gone from the gullets.  Winter/frozen taxes everything.

[Percy]

I'm a wuss alright.  :D :D

I would have still been in bed, under the mattress. :D

Smart wuss ;D

[Robert Long]

Stumpy

Yeup, you have expierenced cutting in cold

Try using Wood Mizer's ice blades they are great....Keep it for the conditions you are in at the moment.

As to blade run off...Keep a piece of sandpaper in your pocket on frozen conditions and pass it over the V belts when changing your blades to knock off the hard frozen sawdust build up.

I use windshield wiper antifreeze in the drip and sometimes it's not enough to stop ice build up.

Also, remove all saw dust at day's end ....the next morning will be hell trying to start up a frozen mill.

Robert

[PineNut]

I will have to agree with Tom about when to work outside. I have had to be outside with the temp 40 degrees on the wrong side of zero and once with the wind chill 70 degrees on the wrong side of zero. Did not enjoy it then and don't plan to do it any more. Now 40 degrees on the right side of zero is a bit on the cool side and 70 degrees on the right side of zero is about right.

[stumpy]

I knew I could count on you guys to help.  First let me address a couple of the comments.  One of the broken blades was new, one was about half worn, the other was getting old.  The belts are new, but  I will check for ice buildup.  I don't know the hook angle.  One thing noone has address is the buildup of gunk on the back side of the blade.  I've never seen that before, but this is the first time I've used the reduced set.

By the way, sawing, or doing most work outside when is 20 degrees out is just plain enjoyable.  I would rather work out there in that temp than 80 degrees.

[Tom]

Stumpy, I have on rare occassions gotten a buildup (Gumming) on the outside of the blade, but I don't have a good answer to give to you about why.

[woodmills1]

If the gumming on the outside of the blade also includes frozen sawdust left on the cant surface then I would say your set is wrong.

[BBTom]

I would not reduce the set for winter sawing, even if it takes more HP.  I despise having the frozen sawdust packed on the boards.  Your reduced set is more than likely the reason for your problems. 

here are lots of ifs for you, but here goes:

If your horizontal alignment is not perfect, and
if your set is too narrow. Then you could be heating up the back side of the band!

If the back of the band gets hot, it will collect crud, and could cause the band to warp slightly due to the heat.

if it warps due to the heat, it could cause the blade to not ride correctly on the wheels thereby throwing it off.

My recommendation ( take it with however many grains of salt you wish):

1. Increase set to normal or above
2. Use blade lube sparingly
3. I normally have to saw a bit slower this time of year in frozen logs because the outside of the log is frozen, and the inside is not.  making for very interesting forces on the blade at times.  overfilling the gullet seems to make matters worse.

[Norm]

The first winter I sawed I had problems similar to yours stumpy. Turned out I was sawing logs that were only half frozen. Electric Al gave me a few pointers very much like what BBTom suggested and it helped out a bunch but really what helped was our weather turned very cold and they froze solid. At that point I took the advice Tom gave, too darn cold to saw. :D

[Kevin]

When I get sawdust building up on the band in cold weather it's due to the fluid.
Stop using fluid and the see if the build up stops.
In cold weather the wet sawdust tends to stick to the band and guides.

[DWM II]

Right now I would swap a little snow for the rain. But then again it doesnt snow when its 65 deg. out :D.

[stumpy]

Well thank you all for your replies so far.  Some of them I tried already. Others I will try and update with the results.

[Norwiscutter]

I have been getting better results with little to no lube as oposed to more. It seams that the frozen logs themselves have been enough to keep the blade temperature down. You gotta take advantage of the warm days when you get them.  ;)