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Is anybody out there making shingles?

Started by Nate Surveyor, January 18, 2007, 07:53:49 PM

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Nate Surveyor

Somehow, even though it will take more time, Shingles have an attraction to me.

I have a Peterson mill. I know a band mill with cants is the best way to make shingles. (maybe)

I used to have a Logosol mill. I remember someone taking a cant, and cutting out the shape of the shingle they wanted, and placing short cants into the cavity.

They could make shingles all day that way. Just pick up the short cant, and flip it after each cut.

I could do something similar, with a horizontal blade with the Peterson.

Make a large cant, with a shingle shaped cavity in the top, and lay short cants into the cavity, and cut them.

Then, as I thought about it, a little swivel in the middle of a short cant could work too. A rocker if you will.
There is Arkansas red cedar here too, to make shingles. (juniper?)

Been working my regular job today. Mill still needs work, before I get going good.

Shingles, anybody?

Nate

I know less than I used to.

Robert Long

Nate;

I have a shingle and lap siding jig for my Wood Mizer and was using it a lot at first to make shingles...I even used it to make shingles from utility poles.  In the past 2 years I have not used the jig once and for a couple of reasons.........I could buy shingles at the local big box lumber store for less than I wanted to work at it, I saw an antique shingle maker at the local steam engine show working more easily at it than I was doing, and will they come to code to meet the local building codes?  Western red cedar has a hold on this market.

Robert

scsmith42

Nate, I too have though about making shingles with my peterson.  My thoughts were to build a log deck that swung one end of the log a few degrees from side to side, square up the outside of the log with a vertical cut, take a chainsaw and cut vertical grooves a few inches deep on the squared side, and then make swivel the log a few degrees to the left side and make a vertical cut from one end to the first chainsaw cut.  Move the blade 1/2" or so to the outside, and repeat - cutting to the next chainsaw cut.  Repeat until you've cut all the way down one side of the log.  You should now be left with a series of tapered cuts on the side.  Now, swivel the log until a few degrees to the right, move your blade 1/2" to the right, and make one long vertical cut from end to end. 

The process should leave you with shingles made in the direction of the logs grain, and it should be relatively fast.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Nate Surveyor

Could/would you mind posting a few photos, (or emailing me some to my profile address), so they have more detail than the horribly reduced photos on this forum!

I really want to develop this ability, maybe for later use, or for building in the jungle.

Thank you!

Mr Smith,

What you are describing seems to mill them with the blade vertical. Somehow I don't think this will be as easy, as the Cant you are milling off of may not be as easy to fasten.

If you figure it out, please share.

Nate
I know less than I used to.

Joel Eisner

We made poplar shingles for the gable ends of our timber frame.  We did not taper them and they look fine.  The process was fairly simple and the shingles have remained straight.  We started with poplar logs <18 in dia and made them into the largest cant we could make (i.e., whatever size gave us 4 square edges).  If the cant was particularly wide and would make an extra wide shingle we made one cut through the center of the cant to make it two smaller cants.  This helped with keeping the shingles flat.  With one or two cants held on the bandsaw mill we used a framing square to place a line every 16 in along the cants and then used a chainsaw to cut almost all the way through the cants but left about a 1 inch backbone to hold the 16 in blocks together.  We then made continous cuts and dropped the mill head each time a set amount to get the shingle thickness we wanted.  The shingles were stacked on pallets with news paper placed between them.  We dipped the shingles and nailed them up later.

The system was cheap and easy and worked great.

P.S. Thanks to Scott's Man Lift I was able to get the shingles up without killing myself!

The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

Snag

Good info Joel.  What did you dip the shingles in?

Qweaver

Whoa Joel, that sounds like a great idea.  What thickness were you cutting?   I guess full boards could be cut to shingle length on a radial arm saw and get the same result tho'.  I'm not completely happy with using B&B on my cabin, just from a appearance point of view, and I really like the look of shingles.  Food for thought.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

scsmith42

Joel - I'm glad to learn that your camera didn't break after snapping that shot...  instead of posting a photo of you and I clowning around, put one up of your shingles - they are better to look at anyway!    :D  :D  :D

Quinton / Snag:  Joel's shingles went up pretty smoothly, and turned out much better than I would have thought considering that they weren't tapered. 

Nate, good point about holding the cant, typically though when you are cutting a log with a swing mill you leave a section on the bottom and right side to keep the log in place.  So, you'd make a horizontal cut in the side of the log a few inches above the bunks, and then your vertical cuts would go down to that horizontal cut.

Clear as mud?

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Nate Surveyor

so, you are saying that the bottom is STILL attached... HMMMM somehow I had it in me head that it was no longer attached.

That's what an assumption will get you!

:)

Nate
I know less than I used to.

Joel Eisner

This is how the cant looks.  The solid 1" or so on the bottom is what the dogs on the mill hold onto so as each pass with the mill a layer of shingles pop off.  It is a simple set up and easy to do.

direction of the cut =====>
_______  __________  __________  _________  ___________
_______  __________  __________  _________  ___________
_______  __________  __________  _________  ___________
_______  __________  __________  _________  ___________
_______  __________  __________  _________  ___________
___________________________________________________
The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

Nate Surveyor

Well, if they don't have to be tapered, that would sure get the job done!

How long do you like them?

And what species of wood are you making them from?

Thx

Nate
I know less than I used to.

scsmith42

Nate, here is a pic of a typical log being milled on a swinger.  Note that you often leave uncut wood on the bottom and the right side to provide support to the log, otherwise it just folds up between the bunks as you mill down.

This particular log is not entirely milled, there is still more material that can be removed.  However, the left side would be left intact, leaving small "steps" going down to the bottom side of the log so as not to lose the support from the right side.


Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Captain


scsmith42

Figured as much - I did give you credit for taking it on the original in my gallery!
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

stonebroke

Has anybody made any shingles out of red oak? It is one of the most durable woods I have.

Larry

I learned the art of shingle making with red oak.  Tools required were a big shade tree, cool breeze, and tall glass of lemonade.  Oh yea...you also need a froe, steel wedge, mallet, and a forked log.  Maybe a shaving bench to dress the sides.  The red oak logs need to be greater than 24" in diameter, 18" long, and straight grain.  The reason they need to be this big is because the heart and sapwood is discarded when ya split the bolts and you need vertical grain for the best shingles.  I've been told white oak will last longer but is harder to split.  The old timers always said red oak was the wood of choice.  There is even a red oak that is know as the shingle oak.

Betcha this is more than ya ever wanted to know.
;D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

stonebroke

na I want to know everything. I would not have thought you could split red oak for shingles. Can you saw it for shingles and also how long does it last ?

Larry

You can saw it for shingles...but if you have a 24" or bigger straight grain red oak saw it for lumber, sell it, and go buy the shingles. :D  I don't know how long they will last...the shingles I split went on a shelter house which was torn down after about 10 years for a housing development.

There is also an art to laying them...need air to breath on the back side and I was told you need an overlap of 3 shingles for a no leak roof.  Again, I got this from old timers and I bet that was 35 years ago.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

ARKANSAWYER


  I have a WM shingle maker for my mill and use it all the time to make ERC, black locust and white oak shingles.   I do not see why it would not work with a swing mill.   Load up the blocks and level it to the head and just drop and saw horizontal.
  Bring your swing mill over this week and we will try it out.  ;D
ARKANSAWYER

solodan

Hey Joel, that is a real cool idea. 8) I actually like full lap non tapered siding and shingles better than the ship lap tapered ones. I have a lap siding attachment for my Lucas, but I don't use it cause i like the non tapered siding better. 

Joel Eisner

Thanks Solodan.  I guess necesity is the mother of all invention.  When we started our timberframing project we had a chainsaw mill and an old Stihl 046 off of ebay.  No tractor to move logs etc.  All moving was done by had including stacking 13 ft long 8x8 timbers which was usually done solo with lots of rolers and pipes.  We moved up to a 1941 Farmall and a Norwood Lumbermate 2000 and could not justify the price of the shingle cutting jig.  The more I thought about it the shingle cutting idea just came to me.  It was a lot of fun cutting them since I could cut them, our 4 and 5 year old sons could take them over to my wife and she could brush them off and stack them on pallets.  Never used the chainsaw mill again once we got the bandsaw mill although I guess we could hang our house numbers from it like an old piece of farm equipment.

Joel
The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

cptbob06

I cut six inch cedar bevel siding for my garage a couple years ago. I wanted to dress up the gable ends with cedar shingles. I didn't have a shingle attachment for my lt30 so I cut 3/8" inch thick cedar boards. That thickness allowed for a eleven inch shingle to lay flat with a five inch reveal. My shakes matched the siding very well and I have had a lot of compliments on my garage. Under the first row of shakes I put a thin(planed down piece of cedar siding) piece of siding as a starter strip. After that, all rows of shakes layed really well.
One of the nice things about doing it this way is I had very little waste when cutting my cedar logs. When sawmilling, I took a thin slab off so my first board was at least 4" wide. Then I dropped the saw down a half inch each pass and I ended up with my 3/8" thick slabs. After slabbing three sides until I had a square cant, I rotated and tried to start my first cut so that my last cut left me with a one inch thick board. The slabs were put on the mill and edged on one side and the other side was done later on a table saw.  I set up a miter saw and cut the boards into 11" shakes. You don't really have to worry about anything but keeping to 3/8' thick as random width is what you want for that cedar shake look. The cedar logs that were cut had a lot of taper so I just started slabbing where I could get a 3' or 4' slab. This was a good way to use up a lot of poor quality cedar logs. I cut crooked and hollow and whatever looked like I could get a 3/8" short from.
I don't know if this was the best way to put up the siding and shakes but I put them up green and let them dry on the garage. I only had two pieces of siding warp after they dried. They really aren't very noticeable either. It has been about three years since installation and so far so good. Hope this helps.

solodan

That is sorta the way I have done my non beveled lap siding. I just put a scrap piece the same thickness as the siding or the shingle at the bottom of the first row to fur it out the right amount, then everything lays good after that. This is also how I have seen live edge lap siding attached as well. :)

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