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Spotted Owl saved from extinction

Started by Bibbyman, February 13, 2003, 07:09:09 PM

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Bibbyman

I was listing to Rush's morning update this morning and he was telling that the Spotted Owl has been taken off the Federal Endangered Species Act list.  You'd think the environmentalists would be delighted that all their work had paid off.  But apparently they are not happy and plan to sue to get it put back on the list.

Anyone else hear anything more about this?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

WV_hillbilly

Bibby


  I think these people need to get a life, I mean  a couple of hobbies. They apparently have way to much time on their brain.I don't have that much time to spare for irrational thoughts as  I would be into tommorrows time and then tommorrows work  would have to be done the next day .I will never get my todo list caught up now ,so I won't worry about things like that. :D
Hillbilly

Tom

I'm looking all over for an  article on it.  Has anybody else seen anything?  I 'd like to read it. :P

Ron Wenrich

You have to watch getting environmental news from Rush.  He is a little biased.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Feb/02112003/utah/28378.asp for the article.

The California spotted owl has been "removed" from the list, but it was never really on the list.  The northern and Mexican spotted owl are still on the threatened list.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Bibbyman

I found the same AP article by searching Yahoo new.

Spotted Owl

Rush a little biased? How about some of the Spotted Owl crap the environmentalist whackos put out? Only nest in old growth.  They've found them nesting behind Kmart signs. Maybe they need to knock down some more old growth and put up more Kmarts?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

J Beyer

Soon there will be fewer Kmarts than old growth trees. :D  How about making them a threatened species?
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

ADfields

Kmart is pulling out of Alaska all togather and I say good.   But the sad thing is the 800 jobs that will be gone from the state, but, still, it's just 800 jobs at Kmart.   All the other stores are always looking for people to work for that kind of pay.   The dumb thing is Alaska Kmarts are so packed all the time you cant move in them and all the ones I have been in down in the lower 48 are like a ghost town, them's the ones stayin open. ???   It's about as smart as McDonalds not makeing money so thay cut the price, charge even less. ???   I aint just the sharpest chain in the box but I would think thay need to do this stuff the other way round. ???   But thats why thay make the big bucks wright? :-/
Andy

Ron Wenrich

I'm not saying that the far left environmentalists aren't biased, but Rush likes to spin things.  That's how he makes his money.

For a long time, he was on the kick that there are more trees now than there were when the settlers first came.  He used that as a proof that clearcutting does no harm, ever and old growth forests should be cut down..

While there may be more trees, due to the smaller size, they do not have a wider range.  There are fewer acres of trees.  Sort of a half-truth.

I figure the average American is a little smarter than both sides think.  Most don't believe the environmental left, and most don't believe the Rush right.  They fall somewhere in the middle.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

dewwood

Ron,
Excellent summation!  I hope you are correct!

Dewey
Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Bibbyman

After I found the AP article, I see it's the one Rush was quoting from – and adding his own comments.  If it hadn't been for Rush pointing this little article out,  we probably would not have heard about it.  At least I wouldn't have seen it.

But what does this all mean?  Are they going to be able to go back to logging, sawing and milling in the northwest again?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Ron Wenrich

I've just noticed, that even though both articles are AP, they are different.  I'm not sure if it is rewritten or what.

The Salt Lake Tribune ends their article with "The finding not only ignores pending framework revisions, but plans by giant Sierra Pacific Industries to substantially clear-cut its property in the Sierra, Greenwald said"

The Yahoo doesn't mention Sierra Pacific by name, but does mention clearcutting plans.

So, yes, they are planning to step up cutting in the California spotted owl area.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

OneWithWood

If Sierra Pacific wants to clear cut the ground they own then i think that is their right.  If people object they should purchase the land from Sierra Pacific.  That is how our free enterprise system is supposed to work.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Paul_H

I totally agree,people should be willing to put their money where their mouth is.Buy the land,and put it into a trust.Chances are,after a time they might see the need for a "light commercial thin" for safety reasons of course ::),then remove some large danger trees,and then...
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Texas Ranger

I am glad they took the owl off of potential listing, they make a decent gumbo ;D
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Tillaway

Where do I start?  

We currently have to survey for Northern Spotted Owls.  These surveys have to be completed on nearly all Timber Harvest Plans west of Interstate 5 which bisects the state roughly north to south.  Every landowner public or private has to submit to the USFW service documentation proving you have surveyed or are not required to as based on the opinion of a biologist with the proper credentials.  Because of this we have lots of consulting biologists out here.

We do not have to survey for California Spotted Owls.  The only defining difference between these two birds is where they are located.  I have not heard of there being any actual genetic difference.

Since there has been little effort put into surveys for the California Spotted Owls the stated population estimate of about 2,500 is highly conservative if past experience is applied.  Basically I doubt if any extensive inventory has been applied to the private lands such as it has been west of I5.  The surveys done by the government do pick up some of the birds that do occur on private lands directly adjacent to public ownership.  Basically what I am saying is that they have hardly started looking for them yet and they have probably only looked in one ecotype.  The densities are usually much higher in managed stands.  I would guess that the actual population is 4 or 5 times higher than the current surveyed population going by the findings on the other side of the road.  These birds are very territorial and the size of the territory varys on the prey base available.  Old growth territories are much larger than managed stand territories so the population densities are much lower in old growth.

Sierra Pacific Industries owns about 1.5 million acres in California, basically they are the monopoly here.  They have been trying to move to even aged mangement on most of thier land.  Currently, like most landowners in California, are not getting the maximum sustained yield and are trying to increase thier fiber production by adopting even aged management such as practised in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and British Columbia on suitable sites.

Large landowners here (over 50,000 acres) have to develope and get approval from CDF (California Department of Forestry) a sustained yield plan and the infamous option A.  The option A allows you to operate under the restrictions of your plan and trumps the Forest Practices Rules that apply to the smaller land owners.  These plans generally mirror much of what is in the Forest Practices Rules with the exception of Silviculture were you are able to develope prescriptions unique to your sites and objectives.  This is a huge advantage for large landowners.  It costs them millions of dollars to develope and years to get approval.

Currently the market will not take any increase in what SPI is already cutting.  To believe that SPI is going to slick thier 1.5 million acres is absurd.  I guarantee you this is not in thier option "A".  You have to understand that the director of the CDF is a card carrying environmentalist.  She could easily not sign any of SPI's harvest plans stopping them in thier tracks.  She has done this to us regarding a conversion she "misplaced".  Her stated goal, we heard through the grapevine, was to not ever sign a conversion.  It took the threat of legal action to get her signature.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Ron Scott

As a result of two recently settled lawsuits, the US F&WLS will conduct five- year status reviews for the northern-spotted owl and the marbled murrelet.

According to the settlement, the agency must comply with the procedures specified by the Endangered Species Act for initial listing decisions.

When these reviews are completed, the F&WLS will then determine if "threatened" status for both species should be upgraded to endangered, remain the same, or lifted.
~Ron

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