Carb. Icing

RMay · February 13, 2003, 06:05:12 PM

I was wondering what every one with Kohler 25 h.p. was doing in cold weather about carb. icing . The Kohler on my mill will start to ice up at 45 degrees or below with high humidiy . >:( Does anyone have air intake heaters if so do you leave them on in hot weather .

Haytrader · February 13, 2003, 07:49:09 PM

I have not had any iceing problems with mine. It has not been terribly cold but below 45 for sure.

GarryW · February 14, 2003, 04:01:05 AM

I haven't had any icing problems either but it does take a bit to keep it idling sometimes when it is cold. Usually a little pull back on the handle will bring up the revs enough.

RMay · February 14, 2003, 11:26:59 AM

GarryW that is what my mill is doing when it is icing up . I called WM and there engine specialist said it was icing when the motor would drop RPM when idling and when you poll back on the handle it will blow black smoke . Hard to believe it will form ice at 45 degrees .It will run like a top when it is over 45 . ???

GarryW · February 14, 2003, 01:42:24 PM

Is your mill new? My had a real hard time idling until I got over 20 hours. Ross (WM in Maine) said to be patient and don't adjust the idle yet. Now, when it is below freezing, it seems to take a while to warm up but then it is fine. I haven't seen the black smoke yet, well only on my F350 diesel.

RMay · February 14, 2003, 05:39:15 PM

GarryW I have 60 hours on it .I was hoping it would start to idle with time . I had a appiontment with a Kohler mechanic on Wed. dut it was 60 degrees and it run good . seems like it is worst than my old mill was . :(

Lenny · February 14, 2003, 06:27:01 PM

Had The same problems with my LT40G25. Found water in the fuel,Dumped the tank out into the kids 4-weeler when it was below freezing and found about 10-16 oz of ice.
If it`s a WM tank they run out when there is about an inch in the tank. Thats where the water is going to build up.Going to put a glass bowl seperator on soon, on the lowest point of the fuel line.
Meybe I should just have the kid empty it into the 4 wheeler on A regular bi-weakly. :

??? ???
Still don`t get the 40-45 deg. Run like s--t days ???
I`ll let u`ll know, hopfully soon.Been shut down, SNOW AND ICE Lenny

Tom · February 14, 2003, 06:31:33 PM

Lenny,

That was one of the first modifications I made to my WM years ago and I don't know why it isn't a factory standard. By installing the glass sediment bowl, I got rid of water, dirty fuel and extended the life of my filters by oodles. Everybody should get one. :P

Scott_R · February 14, 2003, 07:29:00 PM

I have had carb icing on my Kohler 25. I cover half of the cooling intake with duct tape when the temp is low. About 40 or below. It cures the icing problem. With the temps around here only reaching the single digits the last few days I have been trying to cure the sawyer icing.

Scott

RMay · February 14, 2003, 07:58:39 PM

Scott-R thanks I will get the duct tape out when it gets down to 40 degrees it is in the 50 to 60s now . 8)

woodmills1 · February 15, 2003, 06:14:27 AM

carbs can ice up at temps above freezing due to the pressure change in the venturi tube. when a substance changes from liquid to vapor there is energy involved. normally it is due to added heat like boiling spagetti (food again :D) but it can also involve a reduction in pressure. the energy has to come from somewhere and the result is the body of the carburetor is cooled, sometimes even to below the freezing point.

other situations come to mind, such as filling a butane lighter or releasing a CO2 fire extinguisher. by the way, freeze dried coffee is made by a similiar process.

ARKANSAWYER · February 15, 2003, 06:27:27 AM

RMAY,
Scott is right on. If you will block about half of the air flow into the front of the engine it will help alot. You will get more carb icing in 30 to 45 degree range as the humidity is higher. After about 30 humidity will drop to low to cause it most of the time and above 45 the air is warm enough to keep it defrosted.
DO NOT use a WalMart bag like Rodney did the other day in a pinch, as Wanda ate it. >:(
ARKANSAWYER

Kirk_Allen · December 13, 2005, 05:51:19 PM

Thought it was time to bring this one to the top. I too was covering part of the intake but after some spoken concerns from some Kohler folks they "claimed" that blocking part of the intake air will also cause the rest of the motor to run a little hotter since less air is passing by the block.

I see that WM now has the carb heat kit for the Kohler so after my last wood sale I went ahead and bought it ($150

). Put it on yesterday and cut most of today. Quite a difference in performance in the cold weather. When its above 45 you simply slide the cover back and it opens up the vent to get air from the front fan. When its closed it brings warm air from the muffler heat shield.

DR Buck · December 13, 2005, 07:48:57 PM

Here are pictures I had linked to a topic on this same subject last winter. This is the way my 2003 LT-40 25HP Kohler came from the factory. I've had no icing problems at all.

ronwood · December 14, 2005, 10:29:40 AM

Kirk,

Quote I too was covering part of the intake but after some spoken concerns from some Kohler folks they "claimed" that blocking part of the intake air will also cause the rest of the motor to run a little hotter since less air is passing by the block.

I don't understand why one can not use the duck tape to block the intake. The factory fix block the airflow also. Am I missing something.

Ron

Kirk_Allen · December 14, 2005, 11:27:46 AM

First lets identify what is being blocked. Some folks are taping the front Fan area. If your talking about taping the "intakes" themselves DO NOT DO THAT. The exposed intakes are the only source for the motor to draw air from and if you block those you will have problems.

By blocking the fan area, so I was told, your decreasing the amount of air that passes the block. If you stand on the back side of the block while its running you will feel quite a bit of air passing by. If its taped off, you wont feel as much and the engine will run hotter.

The kit blocks one intake port partialy (not a tight seal) but it incorporates a second intake that draws hot air from the heat sheild.

sawguy21 · December 15, 2005, 08:09:39 AM

This a very common problem for us. Kohler has a muffler/de-icing kit that directs the carb intake air past the muffler then to the air filter. Duct taping the cooling air inlets will cause uneven heating and shorten engine life.
Also, disconnect the crankcase breather hose at the air filter base and leave it open. Duct tape the opening in the base to keep snow out. Cold air rushing past the opening can cause the hose to freeze up, blocking the c/c vent. The increased pressure will cause excessive oil consumption and can push the crank seals out of the bores, dumping all the oil on the ground. This can be a real PITA to fix depending on the installation. Hook the hose up in the warmer weather. Gotta keep the EPA happy.

ARKANSAWYER · December 15, 2005, 09:50:46 PM

I block off part of my fan area when the temps warrant it and have a gazillion hours on my engine. As for the over heating problem I do not think it is a problem at 30 degrees. I have stood on the back side when the engine is not blocked and the air is cold. I think runing the engine cold as opposed to hot is worst for it. Guess we will just have to see how Wanda is running after another million bdft. It is simple and cheap way to keep her running by blocking off part of the fan intake.

sawguy21 · December 15, 2005, 10:08:30 PM

Arky, 30 degrees is not a cause for concern here unless it is in July. We start to run into cold running problems around -15C, about 3 or 4F.

MartyParsons · December 16, 2005, 06:48:03 PM

You need to instal a kit Kohler Anti Icing part # 016023 it is free ;) to Wood-Mizer Owners. All you need is a customer # and a mill with a Kohler 25 hp engine.

Marty

ronwood · December 17, 2005, 01:25:31 AM

Marty,

Who do we need to contact. ?

Thanks
Ron

Kirk_Allen · December 17, 2005, 09:26:04 AM

I am waiting to hear as well Ron. I sent a PM to Marty.

I know when I ordered mine last week it was not free. Sure would like to get that check back ;D

MartyParsons · December 18, 2005, 05:19:28 PM

Well, I will contact Greg Brock. The Retrofit was dated 3/98 it says it is free. Things may have changed since 98. ??? :'(
Thanks Marty

ronwood · December 19, 2005, 09:15:40 AM

Marty,

I think things have changed. I called the home office and the want $150.00 for the kit.

Ron

Captain · December 19, 2005, 02:39:15 PM

Hey Guys....if you want a cold weather kit or any Kohler Engine Parts check the Timberpro Online Store. My price on the kit is $149 (the list price is $191) plus shipping AND I'll donate 10% to the Forestry Forum when sold to any members. Watch for the store to open around new year. Meanwhile, send me an PM!!

Captain

Jeff · December 19, 2005, 09:24:06 PM

Captain is going to be doing a pretty big service for the forum. He contracted me to build his website store and will be donating 10% to Forestry Forum support when a member makes a purchase. As he said, the store should be in full operation by the new year but you can make purchases from him until them via email or instant message contact.

Look for this link to the left!

tnlogger · December 20, 2005, 02:22:04 PM

well you coudn't do better then that ;D 8) 8)

MartyParsons · December 24, 2005, 04:54:25 AM

Merry Christmas, sorry it has been so long, I talked to Greg. Kohler did provide us WM with the Anti- icing kits for free a few years back. Now they are charging. :'( If you had a problem when you first purchased the mill ( 1 year) we replaced it for free. Most customers encounter this probelm as soon as the temp gets below 35 degrees. We have went to the Kohler fuel injected 28 hp and that solved all of these problems. The 28 hp uses less fuel and has a little more torque and is much easier starting.
Marty