bore cutting

[a old timberjack]

i dont know if this post should be under " chainsaws " but i am gonna ask everyones opinion anyway and there feelings i am starting to practice it myself ( i bet this is probably a old thread ) hey , i am the new guy,

[beenthere]

Bore cutting is taught as THE way to drop a tree more safely than just making a straight-in backcut.

The GOL (game of logging) teaches bore cutting. In a recent class, the instructor was not complimentary regards the 'safety anti-kickback' chains sold. They limit the ability to bore-cut.

After the class, I do it regularly (before the class, I would do it on leaning trees to avoid barber-chair or split up the middle when part way through the back cut).

[logbutcher]

Be careful here, any talk about bore cutting can lead to serious flamming from those all-knowing. Near to holy for them types  in-the-know:D.
It's one of the main techniques in the GOL program. It gives you that extra second or two when felling to escape (the saw is now out of the backcut), as well as more control. But you need a sharp non-safety chain, WOT, an awareness of kickback, and physical control of the saw.
It takes some practice to get the technique down, especially plunging the nose into the cut while not lopping off your hinge or having the nose kick out at you.  ::)We had to practice two-sided bores from either side of the tree so that both bores meet exactly while keeping a solid hinge.
Bores are super for leaners that you drop in another direction with wedges (another sensitive discussion  :).
Practice on softwoods first with a newly sharpened chain and rakers.

[palogger]

I learned this technique a few years ago from a logger that has more experience than I'll ever have.  I would never cut any other way now.  You have so much more control over the tree.         

[logger]

I learned this technique from many old time loggers and the GOL trainers that I have been watching.  And I am with PAlogger, this is the only technique that I use also.  I also think that you have so much more control of the tree. ;D 8)

[Larry]

Completed GOL 7 years ago and was taught by the master himself, Soren Eriksson.  Every tree I cut is bore cut...not saying it is the only way...just the only way for the hardwoods that I fell.

You can also bore cut when cutting the tree top off...in the training it was called tongue and groove.  And that technique can be expanded on to make things easier, more productive...and safer.

[Craig]

ditto what everyone else has said, it isn't the only way but it is the way I work.
GOL grad also!

[Ianab]

I dont bore cut every tree, but when they get to this size and are leaning 10 deg, bore cut is the ONLY safe option.



For all those who are worried about using it, Lil and I did a 1 day chainsaw operator course. Not up to the GOL standard, but good practical safety stuff. The instructor had Lil doing bore cuts 15 mins after the first time she had ever started a chainsaw. OK it was a 40cc saw / 16" bar, and the instructor said she would need a bit more practice in the field, but she passed the course  ;) ;D

I would suggest that 90% of the time you dont NEED to bore cut a tree, but it is seldom a 'wrong' option. The BIG plus with it is that you can take your time and set up your hinge wood well before the tree is even close to falling. You can stop and get down and eye things up, go around the the other side and look etc.

Cheers

Ian

[RSteiner]

I was also introduced to this method by Soren Eriksson back in the 1980's and have used it ever since.  Of course there are times when cutting smaller trees that I don't plunge or bore cut.  The whole idea is control of the release and the fall of the tree with the fellers safety as the prominent concern.

Plunge cutting can be accomplished in a very safe manner as long as the rules are followed.  Start the bore with the bottom half of the bar nose and rotate around to cut with the nose only after the bar has penetrated past the radius of the nose.  With a little practice it becomes a very comfortable operation.

Bore cutting is only part of the felling process correctly notching or making the face cuts is another major aspect.  The Game of Logging instruction gives a person the whole picture of the dymanics of felling a tree in a safe manner.  I think it is best to have someone give you a demonstration of this method rather than trying to figure out how to do it by reading about it.

Randy

[Cedarman]

Bore cutting is the last thing you do after all the other safety issues have been taken care of.  I bore cut a lot of the cedar I fell.  On small trees that are standing rather straight, it is real easy to cut the hinge off when cutting from the back. Don't always bore cut, but do most of the time, always on leaners.

[logger]

Hey larry, how much does the typical GOL training cost.  I would be interested in the full chainsaw course and part of the skidder operating course?  I never knew how much it costs, but have always wanted to go. 8)

[pigman]

I think I understand bore cutting as described in this thread. I had some of my farm logged back in 1988 and the logger cut most of the oaks using a method he called bore cutting that was different.  They would bore into the tree with the saw and leave the  butt flair on the corners uncut. They would then cut the corners on the side they thought the tree was leaning by making a vertical cut down to the first cut. Then they would cut the two remaining corners. They said that with this type of cut there was very little if any control of the direction of fall, but there was no fiber pull and they could cut the tree lower. I was wondering if any of you had heard of this method or had used it in cutting trees.

Bob the non logger

[RSteiner]

pigman

Your description of "bore" cutting is not the same thing as directional felling as taught in the Game Of Logging.  Using the GOL method of bore cutting fiber pull is minimized along with control of the fall.  Soren demonstrated several ways to minimize fiber pull and cut away the butt flare as one of the first steps.

Randy

[Larry]

logger, can't remember what it cost...I do know the cost varies greatly from state to state.  Our course was 5 days instead of the usual 4 days and a large part was paid by the MFPA.  The cost of the course was the small part...lost production, lodging, and travel was the major expense.  Still the course was still worth the cost.

I think I understand bore cutting as described in this thread. I had some of my farm logged back in 1988 and the logger cut most of the oaks using a method he called bore cutting that was different.  They would bore into the tree with the saw and leave the  butt flair on the corners uncut. They would then cut the corners on the side they thought the tree was leaning by making a vertical cut down to the first cut. Then they would cut the two remaining corners. They said that with this type of cut there was very little if any control of the direction of fall, but there was no fiber pull and they could cut the tree lower. I was wondering if any of you had heard of this method or had used it in cutting trees.

Bob the non logger

Common way to cut...especially veneer.  Also quite dangerous.  Next time you see a load of walnut logs take a look at the butts.  If the butt looks as slick as a babies with no evidence of a hinge they were probably cut like you described.

GOL teaches cutting a open face hinge to control the tree all the way to the ground.  The trainers are aware a lot of loggers cut veneer, and want the felling cut at ground level with zero fiber pull.  Couple of special techniques are taught just for this purpose.  Each tree stump is graded after it is cut.  One of the criteria is fiber pull...if they see a splinter longer than 3" you get dinged.  A long splinter also indicates the tree was not being controled by the hinge on the way down.

[logger]

Thanks larry, I was just looking for a rough estimate.  I would really like to take GOL. 8) ;D

[jokers]

Hey larry, how much does the typical GOL training cost.

Logger,

The cost in my area where Bill Lindloff is the instructor is $125 per day per man. He takes groups of 6-10 people, in other words youy need to have atleast 6 participants to make it worth his time but a group larger than 10 becomes unmanagable to train effectively. I know in the case of dealing with Bill that he will travel to your location(if it`s within his area) if you have enough people and trees to be cut or you can piggyback on someone else`s training date if they have room. I am currently putting together a date for Level 1 here in New Haven, NY. We wanted to do January but it looks like we are sliding into February. I have room for a couple of more people if anyone is interested. Bring tall boots!  We are sure to either have lots of lake effect snow or lots of mud if it`s too warm to snow like it has been up until a couple of days ago.

Check out the GOL site here:Game of Logging Homepage

[beenthere]

jokers
I took level II in December. Was told if I had chainsaw experience, that Level I wasn't necessary. It was for 'those' who were new to a chainsaw.  There was review at the beginning, as a reminder of what was covered in level I.  A couple of class members had not picked up a saw between the two classes.

A level III class is being planned. Not sure how they will state the pre-requisites for that Level. I suspect the GOL plan is to have the classes run closer together, so the Levels fit together better, than having them scattered over a long period. Our class size was 8, but the cut-off in the announcement was a limit of 15. Glad there were only 8, as standing outside for 6 hours of class training watching 7 others get personal instruction was a 'cooling' experience, although the instruction was great.

Taught by Ken Lallemont of northern WI.  Cost was $75

[CDN-woodchuck]

does anyone know if they ever run courses in the northwest??

Wash/Oreg or if lucky enuf - BC??

mk

[OneWithWood]

I finally completed all four cutter classes (GOL).  It took three years to complete the full set.  Partly because of class size (the Cutter IV class was just myself and one other logger - he being a pro and I a rank amateur).  The other reason for spacing the classes out is that the intent is you fall a few hundred trees between Cutter III and Cutter IV.  In Indiana the Indiana Hardwood Lumberman's Assoc.  sponsors the classes.  The cost is $100 for members.  Something more for non-members.  The spread was less than the membership dues so I joined.  Joe Glenn out of Missouri was our instructor.  He likes coming to Indiana because the trees are so much bigger.   He is also a great guy and a good instructor.

[Kevin]

mk;
Contact your WCB office.

http://www.worksafebc.com/

[snowman]

I guess i was blessed. I learned to log for free. After school, weekends, all summer long. Lucky me huh. :D Seriously though, with so many people hobby logging these days, I think these courses are a great idea.It is probably the most dangerous hobby you can choose besides maybe mt climbing.

[Corley5]

I smashed a saw doing a bore cut the other day.  The big beech was without a doubt going to fall west.  Notched, bored, and when I cut the holding wood it pinched tight without any room for a wedge not that a wedge could've lifted it anyway.  Took the powerhead (brand new Jonsered 2171) off the bar and retrieved the Husky 395 from the truck.  I didn't more than touch the holding wood on the other side and the tree set down on this bar.  It stayed for a few seconds and then with a couple cracks started falling west as I'd planned.  I stayed with the saw as long I dared but there was no pulling it out.  It's a real helpless feeling watching a $1,000.00 saw get crushed  :'( :(  Otherwise I've been bore cutting the other big beeches with great success and recommend the technique  ;) ;D  I'd like to take the GOL course and considered it when it was offered in the SW part of the state but just couldn't justify the time and expense to attend at that distance.  It'll be offered up here eventually 

[Ianab]

Just trying to visualise what happened here  ???

The holding strap should have been been on the East side of the tree and you cut that last to let the tree fall. As long as you are dropping the tree with it's lean the stap will be under tension and open up (quickly) as you cut it.

It sounds like you were cutting the hinge wood too thin? Thats the only time I've (accidentally) pinched a bar while bore cutting.  :-\

Just trying to work out what went wrong, because it shouldn't have pinched the bar  ???

Cheers

Ian

[Ed_K]

 I watched a cherry crush an almost new 2171. A friend got it caught in the bore cause it was rotten and leaning across the road. We were cutting for the town. I touch the backstrap and it let go, pulling the saw out of his hands and dropping on it when everything hit the ground  >:( .
Looking at your situation, did you have wedges in the bore? Where you trying to get it out of a hangup?

[Corley5]

I had plenty of hinge wood.  There was still wood there to hold it and direct the tree.  It fell just where I had intended it to go in the first place to the west  :  There was little to no wind that day either.  For some unknown reason it took a lean east until I nipped a bit of the hinge wood to let it fall east.  Then it changed its mind and went back west on top of the saw.  Wedges inserted before I cut the holding wood MAY have helped but it appeared to have a west lean and without any noticeable wind I didn't think it was necessary