Sources for timbers, plans, etc.

scgargoyle · January 08, 2007, 05:40:31 PM

My latest PBI (Partially Baked Idea) is to consider building a timber frame here in FL, then raise it on my lot in SC. I'm looking for leads on materials and plans for such a project. I need plans that will withstand the scrutiny of an inspector, so they need to engineered to meet code. Also, how do you go about finding timbers in the middle of a city? Are there mills that produce stock timbers, such as 8X8's, or do I need to find a small, custom miller? Lastly, would I be nuts to attempt a small (1200 sq. ft.) house first, or should I warm up to this w/ a barn? Thanks!

Jim_Rogers · January 08, 2007, 07:01:20 PM

A barn or small shed for starters is usually a good idea.....

Jim Rogers

Thehardway · January 09, 2007, 08:41:28 AM

Goshen Timberframes has stamped plans for purchase as well as a number of other companies.

Steve Chappell and Jack Sobon both have plans in their books for self-build timberframes and teach the basics of timber selection, joinery selection and execution and erection of the frame. If you have not read one of these books I would highly reccommend it.

You may want to start even smaller than a shed or barn by building a scaled model.

Draw a scaled drawing with the joinery you plan to use. You can use a computer or simple graph paper and a ruler. Create a "timber" list with the dimensions of all the members you will need. Develop a cut sheet for all of the joinery in each member. You can then rough cut the "timbers" on a table saw out of dimension lumber from a big box store or local lumber supply store. Use dowling for pegs and pay as much attention to detail as possible. To make it real life, pick lumber with lots of small knots. This will help you get a feel for selecting timbers, choosing a reference face and working around knots when locating joinery.

These scale models are useful for finding design problems, seeing proportions and trouble shooting assembly problems before you sink a chisel into a pricey 8X8 timber. When you go to cut the real thing you will have a visual model of every timber and joint.

Although you don't get the "feel" of working with big timbers and slicks or commanders that you would on a full size frame, it will give you a good idea of whether or not you have the knack and patience for it. All of the pricnciples remain the same except when your done just your neck will ache instead of your entire body ;D

scgargoyle · January 09, 2007, 05:15:38 PM

Thanks for the tips; I plan on ordering a book or two soon. I was thinking about making a scale model out of 4x4's or something like that. Skills I bring to the table, besides being a life-long toolmaker, include regular stick construction, furniture, and I've built lots of wooden boats. It has to be easier than boatbuilding; at least everything is straight and square! We have a local source for cypress- how is that for a timber frame material?

raycon · January 09, 2007, 07:38:53 PM

You should be able to find a timber supplier anywhere trees grow.

A not often mentioned book to seek out is The Timber Frame Planning book by Stewart Elliot. Stewart and helpers documented a dozen or so classic frames. The book provides timber schedules, joinery details for each frame member and floor plan. I can't find my book at the moment but if you're interested in any other details I'll dig it out. Won't help you with the engineering side of things though.

Toolmaker w/shipwright skills a great start for timber framing.

On the subject of wooden boats I just orderd plans for Atkins -- Sallie Hyde.

scgargoyle · January 10, 2007, 04:58:40 PM

I already have my first project- I told a friend I was going to build a timber frame shed to practice, and he said he'll buy the materials if he can have the shed. This works out well, since I don't have the room or need for a shed just now. I'll post pics as I build it.

Jayson · January 11, 2007, 11:30:59 AM

All the ideas are great ones. I'm surprised nobody mentioned going to a workshop. Although they can be expensive and time consuming, they can be huge confidence builders. Having the opportunity to lay your hands on some timbers and better yet moving some timbers from point a to point b is very assuring. I will be joining some guys on a project in Alabama in a couple of weeks. I understand that the city we are working in will be doing some sort of workshop towards the end of the project(end of March). It is in N. AL so it would be a bit of a haul. Way short of the 1800 miles I travelled to my first workshop though. If you or anyone else thinks they may be interested IM. Secondly I'm not sure I will do another project without a scale model. Not only does it give you a awesome visual aid, it allows to do mock assembly and raising. I've only seen it happen a couple of times but building something that cannot be assembled is very depressing for all involved. Both instances involved owner/builder design that had little or no experience. Good luck

Raphael · January 11, 2007, 06:27:27 PM

Quote from: Jayson on January 11, 2007, 11:30:59 AM
All the ideas are great ones. I'm surprised nobody mentioned going to a workshop.
<snip>
Secondly I'm not sure I will do another project without a scale model. Not only does it give you a awesome visual aid, it allows to do mock assembly and raising. I've only seen it happen a couple of times but building something that cannot be assembled is very depressing for all involved. Both instances involved owner/builder design that had little or no experience. Good luck

I was about to suggest that a class or workshop would go a long way towards building confidence, as well as giving you the opportunity to pick up a few invaluable tricks that we might forget to mention here.

I like the idea of cutting a model and doing a mock assembly. I was rather nervous when it came time to attach the shed addition I designed to our standing frame, it looked tight but doable on paper but having done it once with smaller sticks would have eased my mind a great deal.

Dakota · January 13, 2007, 10:36:54 AM

The model idea worked for me. I'm building a cabin that is part stick framing and part timber framing. The model really helped me visualize how things were going to go together. I built it on a rolling table so I could roll it out of the way when not working on it. Another good thing about the model is you can get a good count on the sticks and timbers needed for your project. This model is 1/8 th size.
Dakota

Jayson · January 13, 2007, 04:19:55 PM

Awesome model. While were on the pros of them. When your finished using them throw some siding on it and you have yourself a deluxe bird house or feeder. Or if you have a daddy's girl, she can have one heck of a doll house. I quess if I'm making a point it would be that the time spent building a model pays and pays. Just think about realizing your summer beam should be 3 inches longer because of an offset.Would you want to cut a new 8x12x16 or a popsicle stick.Ha Ha.

ARKANSAWYER · January 13, 2007, 07:53:59 PM

I will cut you some timbers if you want to come to Arkansas to fetch them. I just know a little bit about it. You can do like me and build a shed from 4x4's. I built this shed in Nov. in about a day and it is 12x12 with 10 ft side walls and is 3 bents. It has 2x4 perlins and sits on 6x6's and has 2x6 floor joist and 1x floor. It now has beveled siding and my planer is in there.

ljmathias · January 14, 2007, 07:00:22 AM

Arkansawyer: you built that shed in just one day? That include cutting the wood? Wow, that's awesome either way. It looks like the 4X4s are mortise and tenon or am I missing something? How did you get them cut so fast? Reason I ask is I'm working on my first timber frame project (couple of 150 lb sawhorses) and about to start my second (12X16 workshop using plans from Goshen) and would love to be more efficient. Sure, it takes a while to learn the best and fastest way to cut and fit (and I'm getting there slowly) but if you've got some secrets to share, I'd love to hear em.

ljmathias

scgargoyle · January 14, 2007, 10:01:06 AM

ljmathias- Note: he said "in about a day". Like when my wife goes shopping, and says she'll be "about an hour". Just kidding- great looking shed there, arkansawyer. Now if I could just figure out how to get 10,000 lbs. of timber from Arkansas to Florida.... any truckers headed this way?

ARKANSAWYER · January 15, 2007, 08:06:40 AM

There are just 10 4x4x12's, 6 4x4x8's, 3 6x6x12's and 12 2x6x12 and the side wood off of the logs. Takes about 3 hours to saw and I cut the half laps and tennons on the mill when sawing out the timbers. There is a 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 4 tennon on the bottom of the post and a 1x1x8 tennon on the top of the post and I cheated and put a timber tight bolt from the top of the rafter down int the post on the outside of the tennon. Kickers are bolted as well as the perlins. Rest is nailed in place with a nail gun. Took one day with sawing and building to what you see in the photo. Put the roof on the next morning in about an hour and the siding in about 2 hours a week later. Two guys working.
Be a good reason to buy a 1 ton truck and a good trailer.

Fla._Deadheader · January 15, 2007, 09:13:02 AM

Where abouts in Fl ??? I know a couple of guys, IF they can get the logs.

What sizes you need sawn ???

scgargoyle · January 15, 2007, 05:03:18 PM

West central (Tampa- St Pete area). I have a #7K trailer I can use locally, so if I had to travel 100 miles or so, it wouldn't be too bad. I figure I won't be able to handle all the wood at once anyway, so 2 or 3 trips would probably make more sense. I was quoted $1650/mbf for 8x8 cypress right here in town. I know pine will probably be a lot cheaper (and lighter) but I was thinking cypress would make a DanG nice frame- anyone here ever build a frame with it? A local friend of mine has the timber frame bug real bad, too, so we are planning to build an outbuilding for him after I finish the small shed. With a couple smaller projects under my belt, I'll be ready to tackle my house... or hire somebody and sit and watch them work on nice days :D

Jayson · January 16, 2007, 09:37:46 AM

Hey SCGARGOYLE,
I am not sure but that sounds great for cypress. White pine timbers run $1.00 bf around here. Upwards of @1.300 for long stuff(over 18"). And on the subject of cypress for timber framing, from what I have heard there is alot of cypress framing in LA.(Louisiana)Can anyone confirm this? If so do you have any links to that info? I just remembered, I did see some cypress in a frame a couple of years ago. It was up in Hiwassee, Ga. Most of the frame was White Pine but they had used cypress for the exterior bents. Try a sawyer named Singletree in south GA. If you have trouble finding the #, PM me and I will look it up

Raider Bill · January 16, 2007, 06:13:11 PM

I'm in Largo near Clearwater, where are you?

Raider Bill · January 16, 2007, 06:26:50 PM

sorry that was supposed to go IM

Thehardway · January 16, 2007, 07:30:06 PM

From what I have heard there are a couple different types of Cypress. Better do a little research on it. One type is great but not sure about the others. I know BK Cypress specializes in log and TF homes made from Cypress. I think there is an effort to ressurect old growth cypress logs from the bottom of the Savannah R if memory serves me. post back on what you find. The cypress frame work I have seen is gorgeous and it will hold up real good to weather. It is naturally preserved and insect resistant which I presume you will want in FL.

Don P · January 16, 2007, 07:53:06 PM

Isn't FrankLad's TF going under cover now out of cypress ???
If I remember right their project a year or so back was cypress also.
Tom has written some good info in the past describing the different characteristics of cypress.

Dave Shepard · January 16, 2007, 07:56:19 PM

One of my instructors in the workshop I took last fall was involved in rebuilding the Mansard roof system of the Cabildo in New Orleans. It was all cypress. It is a French scribe roof and is very interesting.

Dave