Rookie mistakes

[Dan_Shade]

my largest rookie mistake is miscalculating to be able to saw keeping the pith centered, and about an equal problem of forgetting to lower my toe rollers!

how do you guys remember to lower the toe rollers?  I'm worried i'm going to screw up a nice cant for a paying customer who won't be too happy one of these days!  at this point, it's only slightly annoying to me.  luckily I only did it twice over the weekend.

also, how do you determine when the cant needs flipped 180 degrees and a truing cut taken?  i typically go every 2 boards or so..

[deadeye]

i just make sure that i always push them down while turning the log. that way you either have to level it again or it's down so you don't have to worry.  i think the easiest thing is just getting into a routine that suits you, if you stay with it it will be second nature after awhile.

[Burlkraft]

Deadeye is right...It's all about routine. Once ya get into one then it's almost second nature to check all those things. Then comes the day when you have help....That's when things get screwed up.....Help takes you out of your routine...I've been pretty lucky so far to have good help... ;D  ;D  ;D

[footer]

I have sawn a lot of wood and mistakes can and will happen. The more in a hurry you get the more chance for a mistake. Like the others have said, the more you do it, the more routine you will get into, and the less chance of mistakes. Then you throw in the variables like sawing for a coustomer with them helping and now you open up new opertunity for mistakes because you have changed your routine, and you are trying to be as efficient as possible, which usually means trying to hurry. One mistake I make once in a while is to stop on the wrong mark on the scale, like when sawing 4/4 boards and cutting on one of the inch marks instead. I reacently was cutting some nice 25" wide X 10' long ash into 4/4 boards. I cut one off and realized I stopped on the wrong mark making one board about 3/4" thick, then the next was about 1/4" thick to get back on the scale marks. Ruined about 20 BDFT of nice lumber and an extra cut, but Things happen. Setworks or Accuset would solve those kind of mistakes.

[Tom]

I got in the habit of twisting the toe board valve anytime I moved the turner.  Still, the times I would usually miss letting down a toe-board is when I used the rear one.  I always tried to cut the small end first and if the log got up there backwards it screwed my head up and I would forget.  I've been sawing a while now and still will leave a toeboard up now and again.

I learned early that there is no replacement for  going through a mental checklist of everything before entering the log on every cut.  I have folks laugh at me for leaning over and looking at my dogs and then swaying back and looking at my clamp on every cut.  It's just a regimen that I got myself into.  When the blade approaches the area of the clamp or dog I'll look again.  It pays to be cognizant of the environment and not take things for granted.  It only takes a second.

To saw you'll find that paying attention is the most important thing.  Experience will let you examine the next log or the next 5 logs as you are cutting the one on the mill, but until experience allows it, don't take your mind or eye off of the log you are sawing.

The most confusing thing is for someone to talk to you while you are sawing.  That will come in time, but even experience is not enough to allow you to keep pace and carry on a conversation or answer questions too.  You have too many things to watch to try and continue while being interrupted.   There is the log and your scale, but there is also the band and how it's behaving, the guides, the sawdust, the off-bearer and whether anyone is in a dangerous area.

Develop a regimen of everything on the mill and go through it again every time you are interrupted before advancing the band. Never get in a hurry or allow someone to rush you.  It's better to look stupid and take a little guff than to get someone hurt.

Something you want to make part of your regimen is to be hands-off if someone is handling the log or has their hands in close.  If you start operating by "rote" you might drop a ton of wood on someones hand.

You, as the operator, are in charge.  You are the Captain.  It's not your helper's responsibility to stay clear, it's your responsibility to make sure they are clear. (I've seen some help do some dumb things).

Think of the things that need to be checked just like you do when driving a car.  There are places you look with your eyes just because you trained yourself to do it.  Perhaps you will look at the road, then the rear view, then the road, then the dash, then the window mirror, then the road and you will do it over and over again.  Do the same with the the mill.

I know this is just a wordy way of saying what the others have said, but it bears saying, if for no other reason than safety.

Learn to count backwards from a target and take a trimming cut only when you have to.  If I have one to take, I'll try to leave it the last thing before I remove last board.  Sometimes you need the room to get rid of a defect and can take it elswhere.  Sometimes you can hide it in a post or slab to the benefit of the customer.

Go to the Knowledge base and read some of the stuff on sawing to targets or sawing tensioned logs.  You can also do a search and read some of these in the context of their threads.

[pigman]

"how do you guys remember to lower the toe rollers? "

Usually by the time I do it three times on the same job, the customer starts watching for me. On one job I left one toe roller up 6 times before the customer started reminding me to lower it. Now that was one slow person. : ;D

Bob

[rvrdivr]

I don't even know what a toe roller is. ??? Must be one of those fancy hidrolik duhickys you rich folk have on your mills! :D

Here's my recent "rookie" mishap. Instead of using the chainsaw to quarter a log, I decided to split it with the mill. After I got a foot in, I found that the left guide wouldn't clear. I couldn't get the blade to back out, so I used my chainsaw to trim an inch or so off that side and don't you know it, I hit the blade with the chainsaw. DOH! :D,  I decided to keep going anyway and after another foot, the blade had dove so bad that it all came to a stop. The power belt burnt and I had to cut the blade to get it out of the log.

[DR Buck]

Dan,

I always look down both sides of the cant before I start each cut.  It only takes a second or two.   I make sure the clamp and backstops are lower than the blade, the toe rollers are down and there isn't chunks of bark or wood under the cant lifting it up off the deck.  

As far as how often I flip the cant, it depends on how it is behaving on the mill.  I flip less if the heart was centered to begin with and the stress is minimum.  You can usually get an idea on the stress by watching the bottom of the cant at the end of the mill where you start your cut.   If you position the movable bed rail so it is at the end of the log and stress develops it will press harddown on it or below the height of the top of it.    Also, if you unclamp the cant and it jumps up  ;D   you'll need to flip it  and then do a trim cut on both sides.  ;D

[Tom]

rvrdivr

If that happens again, try this.

on the side that is hitting, push the log away from the dogs and slip a piece of wood in-between the log and dog to hold if off a little bit.  If you have room on the other side this will allow the guide to clear.

Salvage a one or two foot piece of the blade that you just broke and keep it in the saw shed.  Usually it  is the sawdust in the kerf that packs and keeps you from moving the blade backwards.  This piece of sawblade makes a fine tool to run into that kerf and "saw" the sawdust out of the way so that the blade can follow.

When you stop the saw, don't push it forward.  The teeth will imbed in the log like nails and it makes it difficult to back them out.  Move the head back a little and use a board to push the band backward if this happens

Sometimes, I'll take the tension off of the band, take the band off of the wheels and move the head of the mill out of the way to gain better access.  I've cut the side of the log like you did too.  That is a good alternative. I learned not to cut too close just like you did.  I'll cut the last inch or so with a pocket knife or hatchet and break the wood away from the band.

If you can keep the log from rolling, the first option is best.

[DR Buck]

Tom ---  You, as the operator, are in charge.  You are the Captain.  It's not your helper's responsibility to stay clear, it's your responsibility to make sure they are clear. (I've seen some help do some dumb things).

Always lay down the ground rules to all of the helpers and customer before you start.   Expecially where and when not to reach or stand.   I won't let anyone stand on the left side (logdog side) of the mill while I'm sawing.   I'm looking the other way watching the blade and can't see them.  Also if a blade comes off, it's likely going that direction.

[thecfarm]

Seems like every time I forget to double check myself,that's when something will happen.I can double check myself all day long,just the one time I don't because I forget to,bang,something wrong happens.Doesn't matter if it's sawing down trees or whatever.Get into a routine and stick to it.I try to check all my stops and dogs on every cut,even though I checked them on the last cut and they was down.

[Ed_K]

 Routine  . I still left a dog up and took ALL the teeth off  >:( .

[rvrdivr]

Thanks Tom that's good advice. That was the first time I tried to split a log on the mill. On the second try, I trimmed an inch off the top, turned it a quarter turn and did the same. This gave the guide enough clearance when I cut the log in half and again when I cut it into quarters.  

Sorry to have gotton off the subject Dan_Shade.

[Dan_Shade]

no harm no foul!  rookie mistakes are rookie mistakes.... That's what this thread is about!  I got a chainsaw bar stuck once while quartering a log.  I made the mistake of using wedges instead of flat shims to hold the kerf open, and the whole works moved on me 3/4 way through the log, took me a long time to pry and wedge the log open. 

You don't let anybody stand on the loader side, Dave?

i almost hit one of the offloaders with the saw head yesterday, then realized how easily you could hit someone with the debarker.  I decided I need to come up with a speech, and give it before I start sawing, and if any help is around or shows up, they all get it again.  I'm planning on covering "safe" zones, and all of that stuff.  I'm also going to see if I can fix up some sort of way to make the drag back easier to engage/disengage, and use it pretty often, and make some of the lower end help work off of the back. 

Have any of you guys ever left a job because the help was just too stupid for fear of someone hurting themself?   

the other thing that makes me nuts is the guys that want to "help" flip the cants.  Tom's right on that one, you just let off the levers, those hydraulics could smash somebody really bad.

[Peakebrook]

As a rookie, I would definately say the toe rollers have been an issue more than once. :D

[SAW MILLER]

  Dan,
   I have trouble with the tapers too,so I have a yellow magnet that I stick beside the feed speed knob when I raise the toe board.I usually see it but lately I just keep the crank in my hand to remind me since my mill is manual.I won't allow myself to replace the crank till I lower the taper.
  If you forget on a manual lt40 the slam of a big log will shear the roll pin  on the threaded rod of the taper thingy which leads to lots of colorful metaphores : :

[PineNut]

It is easy to get a set of procedures that will keep these stupid incidents from happening. Now if I could only find a way to insure that these procedures are followed for each and EVERY cut. That is the problem for me. When I am working by myself, I do a rather good job but when I have help (even just watching), I have problems.

[DR Buck]

You don't let anybody stand on the loader side, Dave?

    No, not the loader side.  I don't let them stand on the dust discharge side.   That's the side I don't  routinly watch.  The loader side is OK as long as they stay away from the front of the saw head  I also caution them to not be directly behind the cut (going in end of the log) when the debarker is running because it throws chunks back that way.   I've had the tops of my ears wacked a few times.  :'(  

Giving the speech more than once is not a bad thing.   I sometimes even give one-on-one counciling  ;).

Have any of you guys ever left a job because the help was just too stupid for fear of someone hurting themself?

     Haven't run into that yet.   I did have a few jobs where the customer had hired non-english speaking day laborers ( :-\ ) that I had difficulty explaining how to use the cant hook without bringing down the whole log pile.  ;)   They managed to make it unscathed.

the guys that want to "help" flip the cants

No touching anything on the mill  at anytime unless directed by me.  NO EXCEPTION.

[fat olde elf]

We are all on a learning curve.........Pratice, practice, practice...........

[Dan_Shade]

No touching anything on the mill  at anytime unless directed by me.  NO EXCEPTION.

I like that one.  I guess I need to start writing down my "concerns".
I guess another one of my concerns is liability if someone does get hurt.  if you have done everything you can do prior to an accident happening, it can help if you are sued.  I guess what i'm trying to say is that I want to make sure that I'm as proactive with safety as I can be.  I'm even considering having a few extra pairs of safetly glasses and will not saw if the help is not wearing them.  hearing protection is highly recommended.

[Brad_S.]

I have more trouble with customers dogs than spectators. How does a dog know where to lay that is THE worst possible spot he could be in?

[Percy]

When I got my first mill(96 LT40), I used to keep flitches, cants etc in the loader that was kinda half up. I didnt watch the blade guide arm stickin waaay out and on the gig back for another cut, I smacked a great big cant in the loader. I havent checked on the new LT 40's but it took me a whole day to adjust that thing back to where it ought have stayed in the first place. I think the newer ones have an easier system. Mine had these eccentric washers/cams and it was like las Vegas odds every time I made an adjustment. On the positive, I never did that again :D :D

[Robert Long]

Hey Rookie;

Set some rules for yourself and never compromise.
Experience is needed, take your time for a while and get to know how to drive that machine, then follow all that has been said above and never take shortcuts to satisfy others.

Robert

[Warren]

Dan,

Something we did in my previous job was to document each step in a process.  When I did that after getting the new hydraulic mill, I came up with a list of about 16 or 18 distinct steps just to slice one board off a cant.   After doing it for a while it does become second nature.  But after two months, I still have to force myself to think about toe rollers.

Seems that there should be some type of "idiot" light on the mill to remind me I have the toe rollers up after the second face.  But I can't think of any simple, reliable way to rig one up.  Just have to remember to look each time.

And yeah, having helpers or customers does tend to break the concentration / routine.

[Cedarman]

There is always the opportunity for the unexpected to happen.  Like when an offbearer was grabbing for a poplar slab and I am hollering for him to move away.  A black widow spider was crawling about 6" from where he was going to grab the slab. The offbearer must know to follow the directions of the sawyer at all times or alert the sawyer to a problem.  As said before, the Sawyer is the CAPTAIN.