Nice place you have here.

[Roger_T]

This is a real nice board you have going here.  I cant really remember how I stumbled across it, prob on a link on the woodweb.  I'm neither a logger or sawyer, but am a carpenter with a small shop set up down in the basement.  One of these days I may even be able to make something downstairs that amounts to something.  Keep up the good work and I sure enjoy reading all your posts.

Roger

[Jeff]

Welcome Roger! You don't have to be a logger or a sawmiller or even a candlestick maker to come to our board... enjoy!

[timberbeast]

Welcome,  Roger!!!

[Tom]

Welcome Roger, We got all types of wood and tree and animal people here. You should fit right in. Look forward to some of your posts as well.

[Roger_T]

Can someone please describe what a cathead is??  Ive seen it mentioned in a couple of the posts but havnt a clue as to what it is.  Also,  Ive read all the post on the paulownia experiment and was wondering what the outcome was, havnt found anymore since about the middle of May.  Just wondering.

Roger

[Tom]

Roger,

A cathead is what you find attached to the neck of a feline.

It is also biscuit in the South. Cathead biscuits are as big as a cat's head

I don't have any other words of wisdom. :D

Where did you see it used?  I would like to go read it.

[Jeff]

Roger, My experiment in paulonia was a complete and udder failure. None of the seeds ever developed more then the first set of "sprout leaves" (Somebody give me the correct name for that here :-/) When Rav gets back from Vacation, maybe she will have better news about her batch.

I do have some more seeds to try planting directly outside. Thanks for reminding me!

Cathead?? I don't remember that...

[Tom]

Jeff,

Now that ya'll are on the Paulonia subject:

I have talked with guys down here that are experimenting with creating small forests for lumber and pulp.  They say that the best way to generate paulonia is tissue culture.  (layering or rooting bark strips etc.)   It is such a prolific tree that a limb, trunk or strip of bark will generate a new plant and it will have the desired characteristics of the original whereas seed will not.

[Roger_T]

Tom,

I could have sworn I had read something on one of these forums here about catheads but i just did a search for it, and only came up with what was in this thread.  

I was thinking this could possible be where a limb breaks off at the trunk and the bark overgrows the spot?  This was kind of the impression i got from the post.  But I just am not certain.

Anyways, thanks for all the welcomes.

Roger

[timberbeast]

I seem to remember that a cathead was a symbol used by the "Wobblies",  the early union organizers in the logging industry.  They would cut loose a raft of logs,  etc.,, then leave a "cathead" on a nearby tree as a signature.

[Tom]

Roger

I got it !  The turpentine industry !

I'll bet the term you saw was "Catface".  I've use it a lot of times but not here I don't think.

A "catface" is  the term that identifies the scar on a pine tree that has been "boxed" (cut open for the harvest of pine sap also called Naval Stores)

A barking knife (which is a long handled knife with a blade on one end that has a loop in it about 4-6 inches in diameter and a heavy steel ball on the end of the handle to aid in the effort required to strike the tree) was used to open up diagonal cuts that looked like chevrons.

A box (hole) was cut at the bottom of the chevrons and sap would follow the cut marks and fill the "box".  A Dipper (man who collected sap) would come by once a day or maybe two and dip the sap from the box and put it in a bucket which he in turn emptied in a barrel.  He was paid by the barrel and I understand could fill 2 or 3 a day.

Later in the industry the "box" was replaced by tin a cup or pottery cup and a metal gutter was nailed to the bottom of the wound to guide the sap into the cup.

A Pine tree began to be "turpentined" at about 15-20 years and this procedure continued as long as the tree could stand it, 10 sometimes 20 years. When the scar wrapped the tree or the tree quit producing then it was usually cut down for timber.

The scar (catface) would cause the bottom of the tree to be unusable because of the formation of dense heart streaks or from the nails placed for the cups.  These catfaces were generally left in the woods and are valued as kindling even today.

Yes, the scars of broken limbs or other damage is called a catface today because the term became synonymous with scar.

Now I hope I have been writing about the subject you were interested in.  If not, there are a bunch of words here that somebody may find interesting ;D

[Roger_T]

Tom,

Great explanation.  Thanks a bunch.  

Roger

[Ron Wenrich]

Catface is the term we use for a blemish on the side of a tree or log.  It is usually a bud knot and is very typical in white oak and tulip poplar.  It will reject white oak from veneer quality.

When sawn, sometimes these open up into defect, depending on if they have a black center or not.  With today's market, those catfaces would be a defect.  Even had a grader kick out cherry because of too much sapwood.  

[Tom]

Ron,

It makes me wonder, Too much sapwood for what? I hear of other rejects because of too much(or any) heartwood.

Most of the guys I deal with are pleased big as punch to just get a board. One out of their own tree really makes them happy and to get a good price has them turning back flips.

It makes me wonder..........

Who makes the rules and for what reasons.  I can understand some of them but the majority criticize wood to the point that it might as well be a piece of plastic.

Folks in one part of the country want sapwood and folks in another want heart.  I suppose it is really critical to have rules in volumes of the big commercial guys but there are a lot of good woodworkers that would love to have your rejected "too much sap" cherry.

[Jeff]

I got an idea that this could go back toward the wood science thread. Tom, as a sawyer, I am visually pleased by Cherry lumber that still has streaks of sapwood. I like Knots! I like the "wormy" soft maple with its streaks of green. I think the craftsman will always take the "inferior" wood that a wholesaler would not. I like the loops and swirls and patterns you see in White Oak when it is plane sawed versus the straight "stable" lines of quarter sawn wood.

The craftsmen and artisan will turn out something far more beautiful and valuable then an identical piece made in mass out of "perfect" wood.

 Take my oak hardwood floors, I bought the cheapest grade I could get, they called it cabin grade. I paid .90 a square ft. When I got done with it, my sister thought it was far more beautiful then her perfect knot free red oak floor she paid 4 bucks a sq ft for.

[Don P]

Jeff,
I'm kinda thinkin your heart beats right on time. I've been on a sort of self imposed time out since I made some rather rather course and unenlightened remarks last week,I apologize if I caused others pain to read them. The search for rhubarb pie continues.

Roger,welcome, these are a great bunch of folks. I'm a carpenter also.

Aside from catfaces, which around me is used to describe just about any overgrowing defect in any species of tree. I've  heard the term catspaw used to describe the knot clusters that are often found in ponderosa and sugar pine where you see one good sized pin knot surrounded by a cluster of smaller knots. I think the foresters call this epicormal branching,but am not sure.

[Tom]

Jeff,

I know it's beating a dead horse to talk the way I do but it makes me feel so good to here somebody talk the way you do.  

[Ron Wenrich]

Don

Epicormic branching is when you get small branches on the side of a tree after it is exposed to sunlight.  When a stand is thinned too heavy, this can be a factor in many hardwoods.  They will saw into a defect in lumber.

The excess sunlight stimulates the growth of buds that are underneath the bark.  Stump sprouts are a form of epicormic branching.  

Tom

With lumber markets depressed, they are starting to get real picky as to what they want and what they don't.  It is coming from the cabinet and furniture production end.  

Although sap is allowed, as well as gum streak, buyers are turning it down, since they can't sell it.  I have a rough time with mineral streaks in oak.  Bud knots in tulip poplar is a no-no.  Soft maple won't allow silver maple.  

I've only seen a handful of silver maple trees growing in the wild.  Graders manage to find them in a lumber pile.  It has to do with wood texture.  I can't tell the difference.  But, one buyer told me nothing with a black heart.

Jeff

I like the unusual as well.  When I put in my cherry floor, I told the supplier I would prefer saps and gum streak.  Didn't get very much.  I was told gum streak doesn't dry very well.

I often though that wormy maple would make pretty neat paneling.  If a guy could go out and market offbeat paneling, he could make some good money.

I once saw catalpa used as paneling.  All 10" wide boards, which came out of a city park.  Elm would be another candidate for nice paneling.

[Ron Scott]

Salvaged underwater logs make some neat panelings. Various shades of pastels, greys, pinks etc.; often  depending upon the mineral content of what waters they came out of.

[Tom]

Oh-h Ron W. and Ron S. I bow down to you for being free thinking and artistic.

That's what this industry needs is Free thinking, Artistic people to tell customers that it's alright to be different.  

That was the same thing the government (Judge Green) thought when he decided it was time to de-regulate the communications industry.  They're looking for that in de-regulating the transportation industries and it needs to be done with the construction industry.

We are lucky to have a lot of people in the Southeast who think that "not perfect" wood is beautiful but they are intimidated and even stopped by people who generalize and say, for no supportable reason, that it is no good.

Do you get much call for Rustic construction up there?  We do down here except for the tract houses.  People building on their own property are looking for something original and if they follow building codes and grading codes to a "t" they won't find it.  That's because our building codes don't say that something must be "as good as or better than" and our grading system(s) Are worded such as to intimidate someone from using something that is "2nd class" (in some uppity-ups eyes).

Even though esthetic uses of woods doesn't require a piece that is perfect, our society is trained to believe that somebody else won't like what they've done.  Yep, we need some free thinkers, some artists, some individualist.  It's Time that the "masses" took a little bit of this country back.
........make life fun again.

[Roger_T]

Well as a woodworker when im shopping for wood, i usually end up buying the most gnarly grained, crazy pieces of wood simple because they have more charachter than a standard grade board would have.  In my eye, I would rather have an old Walnut stump, than the equal amount of grade lumber, because thats where the figure, color and texture is the most radical.  Buying thru Ebay, i may look at 150 pieces of wood before something catches my eye.

As far as building codes go, i deal with them almost every workday.  I would say on the average 80% of the codes that are written are done so to guarantee that the structure will be as safe as possible.  Without them im sure that we would have someone trying to say, span a 20' distance in a deck using 2x6 spf rather than the 2x12 specified.

Tom says "Even though esthetic uses of woods doesn't require a piece that is perfect, our society is trained to believe that somebody else won't like what they've done.  Yep, we need some free thinkers, some artists, some individualist.  It's Time that the "masses" took a little bit of this country back.
........make life fun again."

In the company i work for we deal with a lot of wealthy clients, We have actually trimmed out houses and have done a beautiful job at it, only to turn around and tear the whole job out and redo it, simply because the grain wasnt consistant thru the job, or the color of the wood wasnt what they wanted.  People are funny.

Enough of my rantings.

Roger

[Ron Wenrich]

Rant on Roger!

One of the local big mill owners had his living room paneled in FAS red oak.  There wasn't a blemish on any of the boards.  To me, that's just plain boring.  He did it to show he had money.  

I like to walk through the local Home Depot and Lowe's and look at the new lines of cabinets.  It helps me notice when new species will be taking off.  

They have tried to make a knotty oak cabinet, but it is still lacking something.  I believe it comes from making panels from small strips.  It just doesn't have the consistency of a wider board.  For my money, hickory is the nicest cabinet out there.  Plenty of character.

Building codes are OK, but the inspectors must be able to make adjustments according to owner's tastes.  Too many inspectors aren't smart enough to make the adjustments, just go by the book.  

I hear that post and beam construction really drives them nuts.  Long spans and big wood.  We have plenty of old barns built with pine beams.  The foundations are just loose rock.  These things have lasted over 150 years with no rot or sag.  That old construction just amazes me every time I look at it.

[Gordon]

I love old barns and farmhouses, the hard work that went into building these can't be understated. No such thing as a tract house back then. People took pride in their work much more so than a lot of the building I see done today.

Yes there are still a lot of craftsmen, but there are a lot of people just slammin up houses to get their draw and move on to the next. Quantity not quality. Is the name of the game and that in itself is sad but true.

Growing up we had a weekend farm that had a very simple farmhouse. The steps to the second floor were almost a ladder. But the barn was just beautiful. The craftsmanship was awesome. No nails in the framing of that rascal just pegs. Mom and dad really hated to sell that property but dad got transferred to MI and that was to far away to keep an eye on it. I would love to have that place today it was beautiful and hopefully still is.

Why is it that people that work with wood would rather have the pieces that give it character, rather than the perfect pieces? Because anyone can buy a perfect piece it's the wood that has character that set's it off from the rest.

Gordon

[CHARLIE]

I've been reading all the notes to this thread and find the subject very interesting. I believe people have become "conditioned" by the media. They read to many "Home Beautiful" type magazines and watch to much Ms. Stewart TV shows where everything is perfect and everything matches. There was a time when homes had character, beautiful gingerbread, stain glassed windows, pillars inside and....Lord forbid...some moss on the wooden shingles. They had crystal that didn't match and beautiful silverware that didn't match. There weren't "cookie cutter" housing like today. I'm continually surprised at how many people believe all they read and don't think for themselves.

As for character in wood, take a look at what woodturners prefer to turn into bowls....and believe it or not, the spalted, or knotty, whirly twirly and maybe wormy stuff commands the most money.

Of course I do try to avoid wood with internal tension. It pinches the saw blade.  :

[Roger_T]

Charlie,

Send your tension wood to me, ill chuck it up in the lathe and see just whats inside it,  ya just never know.  :D :D :D

Roger