communications from tundra land

Norm · February 16, 2003, 09:27:16 AM

Thanks Noble that's nice of you to offer, I sent you an IM with my address.

Most of the comercial hams you buy around here have too much salt in the cure. Haven't heard of red eye gravy since I was a little boy. We used it on mashed potatoes. I never heard of grits till I was older and went to my aunt's place and had em. Good with lots of real butter or chipped beef gravy.

Bro. Noble · February 16, 2003, 10:49:07 AM

Norm,

The guide sheet is on the way. This is from The university of Mo. Extension guide sheet 'Curing Country Hams' I had an extra one. A lot of home cured hams use a liquid that is injected around the bone. That method is faster, but not as flavorful as the slower method where you rub the dry mix on the outside of the ham. Salt is the major preservative in all of them, but replacing part of the salt with sugar makes it a lot better according to my taste buds.

We have a guy that turkey hunts on us from Tenn. He always brings us something to eat, often a salt cured ham. I don't know just how they are prepared, but you have to boil them in two or three waters before you can eat them. Still mighty good grub with beans and cornbread.

Don P · February 16, 2003, 11:00:33 AM

Now you've got me wondering, we don't grow any critters. Just have the natural ones that feed themselves. Is there a reason not to salt or sugar cure deer? I kinda like the super salty ham sliced thin on biscuits, heart stopping I guess :

RMay · February 16, 2003, 05:17:27 PM

Don P you could add pork fat with deer and make sausage . Then sew up some white cotton sacks to stuff the sausage in then rub it down with suger cure and hang it up in the smoke house . The salt pulls the water out of it .good eating

Norm · February 17, 2003, 04:44:26 AM

We grind the really fatty cuts of pork and mix it with ground deer, re-grind it and use it like hamburger. Never thought about trying to make sausage out of it, have to give it a try.

Ed_K · February 17, 2003, 06:19:59 AM

Good readin from the old timers way of life,
The Foxfire Book. edited with Introduction by
Eliot Wigginton.
Anchor Books
There's like 6 or 8 additions I have the first 3.
Ed K

Tom · February 17, 2003, 08:17:20 AM

Your right Ed,

I have the first one for sure, and if memory serves me, have two more as well. I need a good bookcase for my books....another one anyway.... because my wife fears for the safety of the books and puts them in a safe place. I have no idea where they are when I want to read one.

You can find out everything from log cabin building to hog slaughtering to home remedies for gout in those books. They were one of the best projects for high school students I have ever heard a teacher devise.

We have a teacher member with that kind of aptitude, Ravioli Kid. She's not been on much lately, probably because of projects like planting trees or making paper or.............

L. Wakefield · February 17, 2003, 12:31:22 PM

Another good reference more recent than the foxfire series is Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living. Tells you how to do most anything. lw

L. Wakefield · February 17, 2003, 12:53:00 PM

QuoteNorm,

If you want to send me your address, I'll send you a sheet that gives simple instructions for curing the best ham ever. It's easy and foolproof. I've not tried it with bacon, but don't see why it wouldn't work too.

How long has it been since you had ham that would make 'red eye gravy'? Maybe you called it 'speckled sop'. Boy now there is something to go with your cornbread and blackeyed peas.

Noble

   Hey Noble! Not to butt in, but is that AgpubG2526, 'Country Curing Hams' ? If so I just found it online and printed meself off a copy. I saw your note but didn't want to pester you for a copy since you'd just sent off your extry one.

   I tried several times to cure hams and bacons, but while they'd get salty and technically 'cure' they always tasted dead. I think that's what the smoking process does- goes from dead to mouth-watering.

   Some of the old folks down in NC thought that the airing process in those curing sheds had a lot to do with it. They did make some righteous ham, and I still love red-eye gravy, ham n grits.

   I haven't raised a hawg since coming up to Maine. Maybe sometime...

webpage is http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/ansci/go2526.htm . I found it by using dogpile.com for a search for 'curing country hams'. It was the first hit.

   Thanks for the reference. It goes onto my cookbook shelf.

   lw

L. Wakefield · February 17, 2003, 12:57:04 PM

Oops. typo. I put a o where it should be 0. The CORRECT
webpage is http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/ansci/g02526.htm lw

Bro. Noble · February 17, 2003, 06:53:13 PM

LW,

That is the same guidesheet that I sent Norm except that it is a revised version (about 25 years newer) and has some important additions. Thanks

Norm, copy the version that LW has found for us----it's better.

I think I have all the Foxfire books. Seems like there are ten or twelve all together. Some really interesting stuff in them and some of it is useful as well.

Noble

Norm · February 18, 2003, 04:13:13 AM

Thanks for the detective work LW, I'll print up a copy. We ended up buying one of those two door refrigs like you see in restaurants, now we don't have to worry what the temp is when we butcher. Great during deer season also if the temps get too high.

Nice thing about keeping a pigger and some chickens around is the garbage disposal never gets used and leftovers turn into good things to eat. Amazingly enough we are one of the few farms that does this, most others around here go to the grocery store for stuff that is easy to raise yourself.

L. Wakefield · February 18, 2003, 09:11:52 AM

Ooh, Ooh, I want to know more about the reefer! I came THIS close to making or buying a walk-in cooler this summer/fall. I drew up the plans and picked out the corner of the barn, but stalled out at buying the reefer unit for it. I figure I can frame it in easy enough and the insulation is available cheap. But cooling... I'd love to know prices and brands if you want to share info, and I'd take suggestions from anyone who has done this. lw

Eggsander · February 18, 2003, 09:28:22 AM

Those Foxfire books are great, I've got the first one and I think two others. I got the first one years ago when I was in school, and it really inspired me as to what a person can do for themselves. It kinda got me started learning how to do a lot of stuff. To which my wife would give a big :

. Actually she has a lot fun with it too.
Someday I'm gonna get the time to figure out that still they write about in there.

;D

Norm · February 18, 2003, 10:58:03 AM

My parents ran a restaurant when I was growing up, walk-in's are huge energy hogs and lots of wasted space to cool. You can buy the shells for next to nothing at used rest. equip. places but the innards are expensive to buy, maintain, and run. They finally unhooked it and went to a couple of two door coolers and a couple of freezers. This is the one I bought, not too bad on the electricity and they knocked off $250.00 dollars because it came in with a dent in the side.

I got it at www.bigtray.com. Free freight and no taxes.

Don P · February 18, 2003, 12:30:28 PM

Eggsander,
The NC State Fair used to have one working all through fair week as a demonstration. I guess they wanted to show the right way? Shame was they dumped the product :D. Awhile back we were talking about things in the bottom of ponds. Bobbit hole on the Eno River near where I grew up was one of our swimming holes. About 17' deep, rope swing, rapid into it with a natural jacuzzi. I knew of several still furnaces on feeder creeks to the river. Rumor had it there was a still pot at the bottom of the hole thrown in by an escaping moonshiner...we tried but never found it.

L. Wakefield · February 18, 2003, 06:06:44 PM

So do you think if you slaughtered a beef that was 1000# on the hoof, or two good sized hawgs (or a moose), that you could fit the sections in there to age? I like to age meat for a week or 2 at 32-36*- I've not been real happy with laying things down because of the air circulation factor. Seems stuff is always piled in and facing surfaces tend to discolor and have some waste- of course that's been stopgap in regular refrigerators. I tend to cut beeves into FQ (2), HQ(2), and then have a rib section. Last year when I did the 3yr old Ayrshire bull, I took one section of scaffold and put it on my woodporch which I could regulate the temp fairly well (this was January). Those sections were huge and I felt like it took about the whole scaffold area to accomodate them. I'll have to lay out the cubic feet description. It seems small but tell me what you think, esp if you have your unit already. Thanks for the good word. I will bookmark the site. The reefer units I'd priced new (just the compressor part) were about $3K. lw

L. Wakefield · February 18, 2003, 06:09:07 PM

er, no, that reads like I was trying to age the meat at the bottom of the Eno River. I was actually referring to Norm_F's post. sorry bout that..

splinters · February 18, 2003, 06:31:01 PM

All you guys talking about the Foxfire Series reminded me that in one of the books there was an article about a guy who built his own vertical band saw, mostly from scratch, pretty good sized as I remember.

Norm · February 19, 2003, 05:12:07 AM

I'm not sure about the beef fitting in there, I haven't tried butchering one by myself yet, but I had the hog I butchered on just one shelf. After skinning I cut into halves with a sawzall and laid them bone side down on the shelves. During deer season I had three deer that were quartered in there and had room to spare. I really prefer to let stuff hang to age but the temp here can go from just right to freezing to hot. Never just right when needed for aging. Here's a good site for the home butcher. http://www.home-processor.com/

The inside dimensions are 54" tall 50" wide and 22" deep, came with three shelves that are 50" wide. There is a circulating fan at the top that is always running whether or not the compresser is. I think it helps in the aging porcess.

Hope this helps, so how hard was it to process a steer?

Eggsander · February 19, 2003, 05:14:37 AM

It'd be fun to see an operation like that run Don, but I don't think I could stand to watch 'em just dump it out. :-[
You'd think they could at least throw it in the tank and drive home on it. :D
There's a big ethanol plant just south of our place, now that's one big still. They haul in a poisonous chemical of some sort that they inject into the process just to make sure that what they're producing ain't drinkable. :

CHARLIE · February 19, 2003, 11:34:15 AM

Steve, are you talking about that Ethanol plant in Claremont over by Dodge Center? That place could sure make a lot of shine. 8) 8)

L. Wakefield · February 19, 2003, 04:38:56 PM

   Norm_F- that sounds pretty promising. Do you happen to know the approx. wgt of the hawg?

   I've done numerous beeves- about 4 since I started up the operation up here in Maine, and about 3 or 4 down in WV.

   Secure temp control is essential. You'll be cussin and jumpin thru hoops if it gets too warm or too cold. Too cold is actually DanG funny as you not-too-patiently wait to get to cutting temp. The last beeve-but-one I had that happen and I was on a tight schedule- working nights, killer tired, depressed over some DanG family thing- and I haul in a quarter- and can't figure out why it's cutting awful hard. It was just too frozen. Went much better after I figgered it out.

   Another Very Good Thing to do esp if the animal is over 1000# is to withhold feed for 24 hours. I should've remembered-kinda forgot on the last one. I usually work by myself (just too ornery when someone else gets involved and then tries to take over..)- and of course an animal that big you have to use somehting to lift- so that was the time I was using the tractor that was almost out of gas and a production to start- and I was going slow- and he commenced to swell as soon as I dropped him- and by the time I was ready to pull out the paunch it just wouldn't FIT no matter how wide I cut him- I would've had to cut a window through the ribs- so ( :-/ ) I took the rumen out in sections. I won't be doing THAT again!

   But it's just like a deer or a hawg only bigger- so you have to have the gear to handle it. I drop him, bleed him and gut him, then either skin or not- last time I tried not, but I wasn't happy with the results- and then hang either whole (NOT likely) or in sections. Back in WV one of the old timers could see I wouldn't do real well with a hawg in quarters, so he cut it in 6ths- that got me started with that pattern, except I usually do the rib section whole.

   When Mike does his bull this winter, he may have to use the snowmobile with a sled to get the parts to the house. I'm going to recommend that he use the wood porch of a cooler- but don't think I'm getting involved and trying to take over.. :'(

   With my limited space I boned out the last one. It was like the Flintstones around here afterwards. I hauled the bones WAY down in the woods- and Franklin hauled them right back to the front yard. I am known to the young kids in the neighborhood as 'the lady with the big bones n her yard'. I had been wondering why I didn't get any trick-r-treaters this year!

   lw

Eggsander · February 20, 2003, 04:20:20 AM

My hats off to ya' LW, that is one lot of work. I couldn't get bones like that far enough away that the dogs wouldn't bring 'em back. Worse yet they think they've really done something good. :-/
Naw Charlie we got another one of them plants down in Glenville too. It s been a pretty good deal for the local farmers.

Norm · February 20, 2003, 04:46:08 AM

Thanks for the pointers LW, I know how much work doing a hog is so you've got my respect for tackling something like a steer. A couple of things that I bought that really helped out are a commercial meat grinder with a stuffing tube and a hand meat saw, but we still bone out most of the stuff we butcher also. The cooler probably weighs about 300#'s, it took me and my two sons to get it in the basement. It has to go through the door on its side so if you have a spot in the garage it would be easier. Our dog Cole tries to bury everything we give him for leftovers that is too big to eat on the spot, then drags it out when he gets hungry again. Makes for some interesting spring plowing.