bar/chain question?

stu_307 · December 24, 2006, 03:55:14 PM

Hi guys. First time poster, long time lurker. I have enjoyed reading this forum and haven gotten great advice from previous posts. There is a ton of knowledge here.

Anyway to my question/concern, and I know this has been covered in the past but I couldnt find the post, so forgive me. The problem that I am having is the once I get my MS310 bar into a tree width wise, it doesnt want to cut....I suspect this is either means that my bar needs dressed or have a messed up link....

Next, I also have a 038AV Mag II...currently I am running a 20" bar on it and works great...I would like to put on a 24" bar and was wondering if it would pull it decent through cottonwood. I have looked (including mike acres site) for the cc and hp for this saw and couldnt find anything solid. So if anybody out there has any info it would be appreciated.

beenthere · December 24, 2006, 04:39:15 PM

Welcome to the forum.
A number of things might be the problem.
Maybe take em one at a time, and others can chip in to find the problem.

I'm wondering if you have the rakers lowered too much. That would cause the chain to bite into the wood and come to a stop.

Do you keep the rpm of the saw up and then it stops? or let the rpm drop off and the sawdust doesn't clear out of the cut, causing the chain to stop?

Is this on a plunge cut? (I'm not real clear what you mean by the "my ... bar into a tree width wise").

You can spot messed up links, and a "bar that needs dressed" wouldn't behave this way (I don't think).

Kevin · December 24, 2006, 04:46:13 PM

Your clutch might be in need of repair or replacement.

Simonian · December 24, 2006, 05:07:35 PM

common problem with a worn bar. the grove is too wide and cannot hold the chain in position to take a bite.
Just buy a new bar.

stu_307 · December 24, 2006, 06:40:54 PM

thanks for the responses and sorry about the confusion...
I didnt mean to give the impression that the saw chain stops moving....what happens is that once it gets into the cut approx 4" so that the bar and chain are in the tree, the chain just spins and doesnt want to grab anymore wood. The rpms stay up and right up to the point that the bar is buried in the tree it cuts great and throws plenty of chips...Not a plunge cut, just basic face cuts....sorry for the confusion and thanks again....merry Christmas all

jokers · December 24, 2006, 06:47:04 PM

Stu, is the saw kerf straight or is starting to curve? If it is starting to curve it could be the bar or the chain. I`d get the chain cutting even from side to side first and then check the bar, maybe it needs to be dressed. Dressing a bar is normal maintenance, people that use saws on a regular basis don`t just go buy a new one any time a minor maintenance issue crops up.

leweee · December 24, 2006, 07:03:37 PM

Make sure the chain gauge matchs the bar gauge .050 ,.058 ,.063
As previously mentioned that bur that forms on the sides of the bar rails may need dressing with a flat file. ;D

stu_307 · December 24, 2006, 07:45:01 PM

Thanks for all the responses, I'll check the kerf and probably dress the bar in the next few days. Now does anybody know the specs on that 038AV Mag II...I'm currently clearing about 17acres of farm land. Most of it is Cottonwood, ranging from just a couple inches dbh to probably around 45" dbh.

Simonian · December 24, 2006, 07:58:51 PM

Dressing the edges not going to help.
How much can you rock the chain? If the side plate of the cutter gets inline with the side of the bar, the grove is too wide. Use a straight edge. If good it will angle away from the top of the bar. if bad it will be a right angle.

Kevin · December 24, 2006, 08:26:56 PM

Quote038AV Mag?

72.2 cc

stu_307 · December 24, 2006, 08:42:58 PM

thanks kevin

jokers · December 24, 2006, 09:32:51 PM

Quote from: Simonian on December 24, 2006, 07:58:51 PM
Dressing the edges not going to help.
How much can you rock the chain? If the side plate of the cutter gets inline with the side of the bar, the grove is too wide. Use a straight edge. If good it will angle away from the top of the bar. if bad it will be a right angle.

Simonian,

Some of your info is good, such as the technique involving the straightedge, but the rest of it leaves something to be desired. How can you unequivocably state that dressing the bar is not going to help without even having seen the bar?

I know who you are and I understand your interest in selling new bars but your attitude is a disservice to a guy who wants a little advice. You might be right, his bar may be completely worn out, but there is a better than equal chance that you are not right. In my experience, bars need to be dressed at least a few times before they are worn to the extent that you are suggesting Stu`s is. If his bar is wearing unevenly due to an unevenly sharpened chain he should figure this out and correct the problem or his new bar will soon be junk as well.

floorboy · December 24, 2006, 10:12:31 PM

just a dumb question but, has the bar been pinch? if it has it could have a slight bend in it. I have had this cause the problem being described. as far as dressing goes I typically dress mine several times before I pitch them.

stu_307 · December 24, 2006, 11:01:06 PM

floorboy, now that you say that I know that the bar has recently been pinched. The guy that I was working with said that it was a small tree that he thought was gonna fall the other way. I know this because he later brought me the chain after he cut it out and that had a bent link it that. He said he did that pulling the chain itself out. So what the real story is I will never know i guess. Eyeballing the bar though it looks straight. The rail though has a decent size chip missing from the top of the rail. Anybody know the tolerance that is allowed to dress the bar before the drive links start dragging?

rebocardo · December 28, 2006, 08:00:16 PM

> the chain just spins and doesnt want to grab anymore wood.
> The rpms stay up and right up to the point that the bar is buried in the tree it cuts great and
> Not a plunge cut, just basic face cuts....

If this is happening with a face cut the problem is probably the chain is not sharpened correctly and the rakers have been taken down too much. Please note some chain (mostly safety) can not have the rakers taken down at all. I have had this happen with rakers not taken down at all, though the chain throws slivers of wood and not long chips.

Simonian · December 28, 2006, 08:29:54 PM

QuoteI know who you are and I understand your interest in selling new bars but your attitude is a disservice to a guy who wants a little advice. You might be right, his bar may be completely worn out, but there is a better than equal chance that you are not right.

Joker what ever do mean? I am not here to sell anything. I am here to give my opinion, it can be taken with a grain of salt or as someone that has dealt with this problem more than once. It is my opinion and my ability to see with out seeing. It is the shortest distance to the fix. If I am wrong, then he ends up with a good spar bar. The next time the saw gets pinched, there is an extra bar to switch to.
I do think I know who you are too.

Tony_T · December 28, 2006, 09:02:11 PM

I've an 038 magnum that pulls a 25 in bar with 3/8 33RS chain no problem. If it's old DRY HARDWOD (ash. oak, beech, hickory, locust) and the tips buried you might need to go a little slower than usual but otherwise it rips as long as the chain is sharp.

Al_Smith · December 28, 2006, 09:07:00 PM

Check the chain, if it seems to have a slightly rounded look on the top of the cutter,it isn't sharpened properly.It may seem sharp but that rounding will stop it cold when it gets part way into the cut.If this be the case,the chain is actually riding on this rounded off portion and very little of it is cutting.I might also add,if this is the case,it is normally a situation of running the chain too long before sharpening it.

If it is chisel chain make sure none of the cutters have blunted corners.They should all have a nice sharp point on them.The chain actually cuts from the side but can't feed in with blunt corners.

As has been stated,uneven bar rails will cause you problems.Too much tension on the chain will cause problems also.A chain actually rocks in and out of the cut .

tawilson · December 28, 2006, 09:44:25 PM

Like Al said, plus while checking it make sure the cutters aren't shorter on one side. They always are on mine after a few filings, I must stroke better in one direction than the other.

Al_Smith · December 29, 2006, 04:26:23 AM

Nearly everone,including myself,favors one side or another when filing a chain.There is a method where you lean over the saw from the engine side ,with the bar directly in front of you and alternately sharpen one side cutter,then another in sequence.

It is really awkwark at first but once you get the hang of it,it works excentionally well,either freehand or with a guide.You can more easily see your angles plus get a better feel on the file .

jokers · December 29, 2006, 09:41:00 AM

Quote from: Simonian on December 28, 2006, 08:29:54 PM
Joker what ever do mean? I am not here to sell anything. I am here to give my opinion, it can be taken with a grain of salt or as someone that has dealt with this problem more than once. It is my opinion and my ability to see with out seeing. It is the shortest distance to the fix. If I am wrong, then he ends up with a good spar bar. The next time the saw gets pinched, there is an extra bar to switch to.
I do think I know who you are too.

Simonian,

I am not accusing you of trolling here for the purpose of sales, what I am suggesting is that, at least in my opinion, you have a tendency toward replacing the bar in question rather than suggesting a modicum of routine maintenance. Neither one of us, as far as I know, has seen the bar in question. When I see the symptoms described the first thing I check is the condition of the bar rails and chain. I have seen uneven chain as the most common cause of curved cutting, which is suggested by the saw hanging in the cut once the bars is fully involved in the kerf. Uneven chain results in uneven bar rails which can normally be corrected with a quick grind or a flat file.

You probably do know who I am. ;)

SawTroll · December 29, 2006, 12:03:41 PM

Quote from: jokers on December 29, 2006, 09:41:00 AM
.....
You probably do know who I am. ;)

I think most do - you are a Wiking, right?

;)

jokers · December 29, 2006, 12:20:43 PM

Quote from: SawTroll on December 29, 2006, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: jokers on December 29, 2006, 09:41:00 AM
.....
You probably do know who I am. ;)
I think most do - you are a wiking, right?

;)

Right to the core! You know what they say, you can take the boy out of the country, but you can`t take the country(or the heritage) out of the boy! There is a hint at Danish lineage in my surname but I come form a long line of "fishermen" and otherwise friendly seafaring folk out of Bergen. ;)

SawTroll · December 29, 2006, 01:12:06 PM

I knew that you had Norwegian heritage, but don't ask me how I knew! 8) 8)

I wish you and Ed a happy new year!

-even though I don't post much on your site - a bit too technical for me, most of the treads there......

jokers · December 29, 2006, 11:40:32 PM

Quote from: SawTroll on December 29, 2006, 01:12:06 PM
I knew that you had Norwegian heritage, but don't ask me how I knew! 8) 8)

I understand SawTroll that you come from a people of high intellect and keen intuition, of course you knew! ;D

Quote from: SawTroll on December 29, 2006, 01:12:06 PMI wish you and Ed a happy new year!

-even though I don't post much on your site - a bit too technical for me, most of the treads there......

Thank You for the well wishes, the same to You and everyone else here!

Of course we welcome anyone with an interest and anything that anyone wants to talk about is fine. We have threads that range from goofy to somewhat technical but it`s all for enjoyment and we value any input as long as it is not to cause trouble.

SawTroll · December 31, 2006, 05:48:24 PM

Thank you Russ!!!

jokers · December 31, 2006, 06:30:25 PM

Quote from: SawTroll on December 31, 2006, 05:48:24 PM
Thank you Russ!!!

You are very welcome SawTroll! BTW I have noticed that you`ve been around lately, I`m glad to see this!

stu_307 · January 03, 2007, 02:22:35 AM

Thanks to all that responded. I did dress the bar and it is now working fine. Its amazing how removing just a sliver of metal will affect how the saw cuts. Right now i am just using a regular flat file to do this but I have seen tools to dress a bar that does all three sides at once. Is there one out there that out does the rest? I havent really looked much at these tools so are the one time use or can the files inside them be replaced. Take care.

jokers · January 03, 2007, 05:10:09 AM

Hi Stu,

Ofcourse a BRG(Bar Rail Grinder) does the best and quickest job, but any flat file will work.

I have a BRG at home and a Pferd bar rail dresser in my toolbox. The Pferd has a replaceable file with very coarse teeth, I wish they were finer. A good quality Mill Bastard seems to cut better, but then you also need to have a better hand and eye to get a square cut on the bar. It is important to ever so slightly bevel the bar rails after filing to prevent chipping of the edges so you end up needing a flat file anyway. Just knock the hard corner off. I`ve also found on occasion that you will get a bar that consistently wears faster on one side for whatever reason so if you bevel the opposite side more, thus creating a smaller bearing surface, that you can often even up the wear rates to the point where the bar stays square longer.

I`m not trying to discourage anyone from Buying the hand held device because it works well for keeping the bar square, it just isn`t the end all, be all tool for bar maintenance. I have also used a large belt sander which is outfitted with a table for squaring the rails and have a friend who uses a flap wheel in a pnuematic die grinder and a 6" wheel on a pnuemantic sander for bar maintenance.
It isn`t brain surgery.

Whatever you do, keep in mind that the small lip on the tops of the rails are often razor sharp, wear gloves to prevent being cut.