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Benchmarks on the slow path.

Started by Raphael, December 12, 2006, 12:09:43 PM

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Raphael

It's not specifically timber framing or log building, but I thought I'd share a few pictures of our progress on the house.  I've been using my own lumber and timbers as much as is feasible and over the past few years have developed a strange symboitic relationship with the local beaver population.  At this point 50% of the trees I've harvested for timbers looked something like this when I dropped them.


  This was supposed to be my Red Oak seed tree but the beaver had other ideas.  The stump measures 24" DIB; diameter inside beaver.  :D   The tree provided 3 saw logs, the first two logs produced lumber and timbers; a 5x7 floor joist 14' long and a 7½x9 tie beam 12' long.  The third log I squared off at 8" (actually 8-1/8") to produce this:

 



It's currently 12'9" (the plan is to carve the top in place some time in the future).  The only joinery here is a pair of dadoes to recieve the (grade stamped) platform framing.




Here are the basement stairs, the treads are rough sawn 1½" thick 10" deep air dried Poplar.  A little soft for floors in general but given the fact we don't have a full basement they aren't going to see enough traffic to wear out anytime soon.





The only code issue (aside from the current lack of a railing) is the gaps under the stairs.  Apparently even basement stairs require a maximum 4" gap it this state.  ::)



... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Jim_Rogers

Do you know what is the number one cause of beaver death?

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

thurlow

Let me guess..............probably the same as the number one cause of deaths to inattentive timber cutters?  TIMMMMBERRR ;D
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Timburr

Sense is not common

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Max sawdust

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Timburr  :D :D :D :D :D 8)

Tooth decay.... :D :D

Raphael,
I know you live on the east coast, BUT I really think your wife needs a new coat and you need a hat to keep you warm working outside in winter ;)

Darn beaver cut more than little aspen.  I know, they took out a beautifully maple hanging over our lake.  I don't care about the thousands of small aspen they clear to release the white pine, but the nice trees they start on by accident gets me thinking coat and hat :D
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Raphael

  I was watching the big beaver breaking ice around the lodge last week and thinking 'hat'...  Actually I was thinking 250yds is just in range for the 30-06 ;) But I've seen rounds skip off water and that newly renovated house on the far side of the pond is just one bad bounce away.  He's a real smart one, my father brought in a trapper and that beaver tripped everyone of his traps, even dragged one out and added it to the dam.  :D

  They've a girdled and chewed into a Black Cherry that has dead fall trap written all over it... I can only hope, they've killed a half dozen Black Cherries so far.  :'(

  I've been looking at it closely as it's either going the hang in a big maple or crush the wild blueberries unless I intervene and pull/wedge it over backwards.  It also may contain the last floor joist I need for the house but it'd have to be milled flat on the top and bottom only and hewn to follow the lateral curves.  I suspect I'd need my engineer's backing to get it past the building inspector, so far he's not busted my chops on getting the joists I've milled inspected possibly because they all look better than those supplied by the local sawmill.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Jim_Rogers

The correct answer is......falling trees.........

You can decide who answered correctly...... ;D

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

scgargoyle

Let's hope Raphael's beaver doesn't come looking for 'his' trees... and you thought termites were trouble!
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

Raphael

 :D  Yeah, we definately want to keep the beaver on the outside of timber framed house. :D


  I thought I'd offer one more series of photo's in the beaver to beam saga, this one is a White Oak they girdled late this summer, my face cut was almost done for me.



  These guys sure know how to pick them.



  Here's the freshly milled 5x7" joist, I milled it 16'4" long which is close to the maximum convienant length for my mill as it's currently configured (I have another 9' stashed in the garage).  The log also yielded four 1x7" boards, four random width boards and two heavy slabs for the wood pile.



  The finished joist will measure 13'2" after I've done this to both ends.  I love this end grain, to bad it'll be buried in a mortice.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

metalspinner

How exactly did that beaver plan on getting that log to his dam?  Or was he just sharpening his teeth? :D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

TexasTimbers

Chris,

The beaver was trying to help 'ol Rafe save a little fuel mix. Even beavers know how high fuel prices have gone.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Raphael

  I don't know if anyone is 100% sure why the big beavers like to chew on oaks.  One theory I've heard is they need to go after really hard logs to wear their teeth down as they grow continuously and could wind up to long after a hard winter.  At the far end of our property is another pond, they've dropped some really big oaks out ther and taken away every branch under ~3" in diameter so maybe they just figure a big trunk means lots of branches to use.
  They really like the bark on the Black Cherries so they'll drop the big ones and strip all the bark they can get as well as all the branches they can haul to their lodge for winter forage.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Norm

Great pictures and a beautiful home Raphael. :)

While deer hunting I noticed that the beavers along our crick had been really busy. They go after soft hardwoods like the hackberry and river willows so I've never bothered with them. First walnut I see chewed on we are going to be seeing what they taste like. :D

I'd love to see more pictures of your home when you get a chance. :)

Raphael

Thanks Norm,
  As the guy who's ultimately responsible for every stick in the frame I have a tendancy to see only the flaws and miss the big picture (until SWMBO knocks me on the head and gets me to step back and look).  It's been an interesting process filled with moments of sudden transformation, like the day Foard Panel finished hanging the wall panels.  That day I spent the afternoon wandering through the house with my eyes glazed over and my mouth hanging open.

Buried down in the depths of this board are three posts covering the three stages of raising our frame:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17725.0
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17928.0
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=18350.0

Other pictures have crept into various threads and there are several unposted pictures in my gallery.  Some day I'll get around to updating my website so the whole process is documented in a single place.  ::)
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Norm

Boy I know what you mean Raphael, we're always are own worst critic. Not sure how I missed the earlier threads but I appreciate you giving me the links.

Max sawdust

Rapheal,
I know what you mean, I just built a stinking little tractor shed with a tarp for a roof so far, and I am amazed when I step inside.  The primal satisfaction of building a STURDY structure steeped in tradition is second to none in my opinion. ;D
(I must admit that felling difficult trees does provide a good instant rush  ::);))
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Raphael

Quote from: Max sawdust on December 16, 2006, 08:53:05 PM

(I must admit that felling difficult trees does provide a good instant rush  ::);))


Indeed, sometimes for the ground crew.

  This ugly rotted Red Maple made me work for the floor joist I eventually rescued.

  It gave me very little to work with, the yellow circle is my face cut and the pink is all the hinge I had on that side of the tree.  Of course it also leaned opposite the desired direction of the drop.  ::)
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Max sawdust

 :o :o
Nasty ;)
I like to pull those over.  Those rotten ones..Ya never know what they are going to do.

I like the fact that you put the effort into salvaging what you could from that tree.  Now days it seems like most would not put in the effort ;)
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Raphael

I really need to invest in a good winch so I can get some dynamic pull going.
  My father had 'rigged' the tree for me using the old 1/2 line as a single strand (I've always doubled it) and we set up static tension using a pair of come-a-longs.  That line had a working load rating of either 1000 or 1500lbs. when it was new.  I honestly don't think it would have held up if I'd overdone it on the back cut so I stopped a wee bit earlier than ideal, but I knew I had enough to stay off the tree line and my gut was telling me the tree was starting to float.
  He'd also brought the wedges I told him I'd need and stupid me didn't even look at them until the cuts had been made...  This tree was dropped using steel splitting wedges.  ::)



  The log with the near end pulled out towards the trail and slightly elevated is my joist.  The camera is pointed slightly right of the direction of the ideal drop and the rope you can just see running up the left side of  of the photo was set ~180° to the lean of the tree.  There's over 6' of bad log laying on the ground just beyond the stump plus a couple of stove length pieces.  What you don't see is the line of monster Red Maple  and Hickory that's running down the far side of the stone wall hiding in the foliage on the right side of the photo.

  I'd just finished reading every post in our 'Health and Safety Forum' the week before so it added an interesting psychological component to the drop.  That evening I logged onto Wespur and dropped a chunk of $$$ on equipment.  I upgraded everything except the old climbing spurs, I've got a good friend who's also the local Arborist and he's got a bucket truck so I'm not planning on doing much spur climbing.  These days if I have a bad tree on a customer's property I'll give him the business and he'll bring the logs right to my mill.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Raphael

My quest for the final floor joist has turned into a small saga.

  I dropped my beaver chewed black cherry, but the log had a ~1" void in the very center reaching too far up the tree to get my joist timber.  So I have a little Black Cherry lumber to mill asap.
  We've had a monster White Birch leaner threatening to come down in the path.  Another tree with a rotted base but a huge expanse of straight trunk so I decided to kill 2 birds with one stone.  I cut seven 16-18" pieces of firewood off the butt hoping the punk would dissapear.  Long story short I wound up with one 10' sawlog which should produce some nice clear lumber and three shorter pieces with crotches but no joist.    So I have a decent amount of White Birch lumber to mill asap.

  Today I went to the bank as it were and attacked a 'healthy' hickory in the back pasture:


  I cut the stump high, there are three runs of two strand from an old fence buried in the stump.
The drop was a little psychologically hairy in that retreat is limited by stone walls but otherwise pretty straight forward.
  The tree has a more than just the one joist in it.  It's 27' from the butt cut to the first bend with another 12' log above the bends.



I was a little suprised the log stayed up on the stump but it sure made getting 1800+ lbs. on my skidding axle easy.



  I almost lost it when I cut my 15' working timber out of the 27' on the axle and found a void in the pith.  Fortunately it dissapeared at the 13'9" mark and my finished timber needs to be 13'2", so I don't have to go after a fourth tree...  yet.  ::)
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Jim_Rogers

Raphael:
One thing I noticed in your first photo of the tree still connected to the stump is the bark peeling off the side of the log. This is called a "root tear", even though it doesn't, in your case, go all the way down to the roots. It is caused by the outside of the tree being still connected to the stump at the point between the felling cut and the back cut.
A "root tear" can pull on the tree and make it change direction as it falls, and sometimes this can be a bad thing.
To insure that a tree will fall towards it's intended landing location the procedure is to make two little cut to prevent the "root tear" from happening.
I read about this many years ago in a tree felling book, and I've used it every time I fell a tree, since.
What you do is make two little cuts, one on either side of the tree at the elevation of the flat bottom of your felling wedge cuts.
This is called "corner nipping" as you are nipping the corners of the cuts.
It is shown here in the old crude drawing I did many years ago:



As you can see this makes your hinge wood a little shorter but you only have to cut the surface a little and I usually do about half the height of the bar deep into the tree.
This is cut flat with the bottom of the wedge cut at the same height.

This type of corner nipping cut will prevent root tear and help make sure the tree falls in the direction of the wedge cut.
When cutting high quality logs, such as veneer grade logs, it is very important to not have any root tear up the butt log.....

I hope you try this and find it helpful to your felling methods.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Raphael

  I should have remembered to make those sapwood cuts at the time.  ::)
Old habbits die hard don't they (too much time spent cutting junk trees and fire wood).  My friend Bill the arborist was showing me a 36" Black Cherry log that would make you cry.  He knew it was going split just as it started to fall.

  Do you know any tricks to getting a tree down without damaging crotch wood?
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Jim_Rogers

The way we've done it in the past was to plan on the fork " Y " hitting the ground flat. Imagine the face of your computer screen being the ground and the " Y " is the tree. And it is falling towards you (or your computer screen), that way the trunk, and both legs of the " Y " are hitting the ground all together. This will prevent the crotch from cracking and splitting the trunk of the butt log. This means you only have two directions to land it, so you may have to clear out an area for it to come down, one way or the other.

We'd always sight the crown of the tree and visualize the path through the canopy that it will travel from it's current standing position to the ground. If a branch from another tree is in it's path then sometimes we'd cut down that other tree first, or pick another direction where the path is open. When a tree has a crotch in it, this limits the felling direction to just two ways and it can be a little more difficult.

Good luck and always plan an escape route.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Raphael

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on January 04, 2007, 06:22:15 PM

Good luck and always plan an escape route.

  Some days I think the whole project needs an escape route.  :D

I set out to cut that last floor joist today and guess what reappeared:


>:(  Now I'm Pithed!!!  >:(

  This was my third attempt at a clean end of tennon cut and I'm down to less than ¾" of spare timber at the far end.
It's a drop in joist so the tennon is 4½"h x 4½"w x 2"l then it increases to 6½"h x 4½"w for the housing.  This puts the void just above the bearing face.  As last joist in the series it carries half the weight of it's neighbors and as it's Hickory it was a lot stronger than necessary to work in any position.

What do you think of filling the void with epoxy (to shore up the bearing) and cutting the joist as planned?
Is it worth paying for my engineers opinion or should I take this opportunity to perfect my felling technique?
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

beenthere

Raph
Not completely understanding your intention, but assume you are concerned about the grub hole in the center by the pith.  If that were the only defect, it wouldn't concern me for strength of this joist. However, I suspect it leads to more galleries chewed out by the grubs and possible rot associated with the same holes. I'd not use it in a critical strength member, but go ahead and practice the falling technique.  ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Don P

As long as we're piling on, I think it has shake showing too. A pig should be getting nervous about now  ;D

Raphael

No shake just some staining, at least nothing has opened up.
  Counting rings I came up with the theory that damage occurred to the tree when the property was logged in the late 60's allowing egress to whatever beastie carved the hole.  No evidence that there is any rot in the timber but who can say.  ::)




Looks like he followed the drunkards path at the very least...

... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Max sawdust

I would rough in the joinery and see what you see ;)  Make the call then.
Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Don P

 I think Beenthere had it right. It has no grade till you get out of the wormhole, the damage is unknown.  There was a section in grading class similar, I can't quote it but that was the intent. Nibble till you run out of length.

Raphael

Quote from: Don P on January 07, 2007, 11:17:12 PM
I think Beenthere had it right. It has no grade till you get out of the wormhole, the damage is unknown. 

That's my understanding as well.
At best I've got a rough idea of the outer limits of damage based on the staining in the rings and the history of the property.  What I really have at best is a box beam with 2x material on top and bottom, 1x on the sides and a bunch of extra mass inside working against it.  I'm not up on torsion box calculations but that'll be a moot point once it checks. ;)

I might cut the joint just for curiosity's sake but I'm out of wiggle room on the timber so it'll get shortened and saved for future use.  I'll need some 8' joists for the front entry and possibly a ridge beam.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Raphael

Here's my little homage to boring insects everywhere.  :D


The tunnelling stopped about 3" beyond where I cut off the tennon so I've got an extra 10' 5x7 set aside for future use.

Deb and I hoisted and installed the last two permanent joists on Wednesday.


The most recent Hickory joist is already up top (waiting) and the White Oak is prepped to ascend.


White Oak joist in position before loosening the cable.

But the real excitement happened today while I was driving my father 100 miles round trip to the eye doctor.  I returned home to find the driveway blocked by the power company bucket truck that was installing our transformer.  No more buying electricity at $2.50 a gallon and listening to the generator roaring. 
 8) 8) 8)
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Stumpkin

I have always disliked generators, they're hard on electric motors (low start-up voltage) and it's hard to hear the radio over all that noise. Tom  8) 8) 8)
"Do we know what we're doing and why?"
"No"
"Do we care?"
"We'll work it all out as we go along. Let our practice form our doctrine, thus assuring precise theoretical coherence."      Ed Abbey

Don P

Woohoo, silent power. That's a return to sanity, generators chant in my ear all day"turnmeoffturnmeoff"  :D.

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