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Which blade width do you prefer?

Started by jpgreen, December 09, 2006, 10:20:07 PM

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jpgreen

Since we're on the blade subject, which blade width do the folks here prefer?

I've been using 1 1/2" blades with good luck, and square flat cuts, but I know I don't have my setting and sharpening down yet, cause yesterday, I had the sweetest cutting resharp and set that I've done yet.  I think my mill can be cutting almost twice as fast with the right blade, but I'm not there yet.

Do wider blades cut truer?

So far though all of my experience has been with old blades that came with my mill, that I've resharpened, so I bet the right new blade would blow me away.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Kelvin

I've noticed this as well.  Only once in a blue moon will i get a blade that really out performs the others.  i think there is more to this than just blade width.  I think it happens when a bunch of things come together.  Namely you have the right sharpeness, pitch, and set for the species and not only that but for the width of cut you are doing.  Hook angle should change if you are constantly doing super wide cuts as sawdust clearing will change.  I've noticed in my own situation that any blades that have had a minor incidence with metal (most of my blades) i can't get back to their top performance.  It sure takes a lot of grinding to get those points back!  No wonder woodmizer throws them away!  I only have used 1 1/4" as i figure my motor is too small for bigger, but it would be interesting to hear if others have a certain blade that outperforms them all.  Thickness also matters with stability, but that really takes a bigger engine.  Not sure about width of band.  Lets see what people say...
KP

customsawyer

With my LT40 I ran the .055 x1 1/4 but on the LT70 I run the .055 x 1 1/2. I tried some 1 1/2 on the LT40 but I found that it cut slower as it took more HP to move that blade. Remember the wider the blade or the thicker the blade will take more HP to cut with so if you try the wider blade you might want to try a little thinner blade. The porpose of the wider blade is to give you more sharpenings per blade do to longer flex life.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Tom

If your mill can handle them, wider and stiffer bands will cut truer and faster.  You have to determine the most economical band because your logs also come into play.

Starting from the beginning of my experience with Wood Mizer, There were two blades, 35 thou. and 42 thou. thickness. They were configured with 3/4 or 7/8 pitch.   The 7/8 pitch was something 'new".

The logic expressed to us by Wood Mizer was this.

The .035 blades were recommended for saws with engines less than 15 horsepower.  The thin bands required less effort because they didn't cut as thick of a kerf and they were very flexible.  I don't know why some of the little push mills aren't using the thinner band today.

These bands could be purchased with a 3/4 or 7/8 pitch.  Most of the resaw's were using 3/4  but 7/8 was being touted as providing less horsepower and efficient in green material.
If the sawing became tough, as in knots, or, if production was a paramount and you wanted to drive the blade harder, then the .042 blade was recommended.

You saw a few 1" blades being used as a carryover of the pallet industry and resaws but the sawmills were running on 1 1/4".    Inch and a half bands were implemented later to provide better service with tough logs but they required a change in guide wheels and most of us shied away from them.  Two inch blades were offered by no one.   One reason was that the bandwheel was too narrow and a two inch blade would cup as it went around and destroy its ability to cut true.  It also required a change in guide wheels.

Being one of the type that  "doesn't fix what ain't broke",  I stayed with the 1 1/4 blades, and do to this day.  I could make them work and saw.  There is no reason to change my mill just to find that something else would work too.

I know that there are instances when a wider band or thicker band will do the job better.  What we have to determine is "what is the job?".  We sometimes get sidetracked with having to have the biggest, meanest thing on the face of the earth.  There is nothing wrong with that if that is what you want, but, I'm not talking about "wants" here.

We give our wives jacked up Suburbans with 4WD, big engines, Rally lights, Over-sized mudgrip tires and camo paint to take the kids to school and bring home the groceries.  They never see off-road.  The society is full of them now when a moderately sized 4-door sedan with an AM/FM radio would do just as good, and maybe better, a job.

I've never use a .055 band.  I know, from listening to others, that there are situations where I might could use one. Those times are seldom enough that It's not worth it to me to keep one on the shelf to cut that one miserable log.  I can get buy by making sure that I have a really sharp 1 1/4.  There is always another one of them on the truck so it's a "no brainer" to me.   Ha!  "No Brainer".  That's an old IBM term developed by their sales department.  It kinda caught on everywhere, didn't it.

The Bands that Woodmizer provided for us in the 80's and through 92' or so, had flat gullets.  The sharpener used a stop to determine tooth height rather than the cam for shaping the gullet. 

The flat gullets worked, but not nearly as efficiently as the shaped gullet.   The logic, I think, was that the flat gullet provided more metal in the body of the band and that would give it rigidity (beam strength).  Something that the guide wheels were relied upon more and more later on.

Taller teeth, deeper gullets, steeper backs, heavier bands, longer pitch, wider set, all must be considered when picking a band.  Just remember that More isn't necessarily Better.  The Macho thing makes for good conversation, but, it doesn't get you through your log any more economically.

Now, if you are like me, your profit margin isn't wide enough to throw the latest and best at your mill on a salesman's recommendation.  You have to find the least expensive arrangement that will get the job done without causing you hardship and still allow you to make money.  I found that, with a little tweaking, the  standard 1 1/4 band with a .021 set and 10° rake was a good starting point for my inventory.  They work out of the box and I make a few adjustments when I re-sharpen them.

Little things you are taught by others helps with the fine tuning.   When the Woodmizer magazine was just a sheet of paper, it was full of notes about how to do better.  When it was made into several sheets, the district Managers all wrote a little blurb, giving us maintenance hints, sawing hints, etc.  I got one of the papers one day and read the  hints given by the Manager in Oregon.  I've forgotten his name, but that one thing got me started on fine tuning my bands to my logs.  He said "The softer the wood, the more aggressive the blade.  The harder the wood, the less aggressive the blade".

I know he was generalizing, but it made sense to me.  that is when I really found that excessive set wasn't always the answer.  The least amount of wood you can remove is easier on the saw and the band.  You have to find that place were the kerf provides enough stability, the fibers don't rub the body, the sawdust is removed and the gullets aren't over stressed.  Yep, all my work determined that the factory band at, .021 or so, did me a good job.  The manufacturer must have done some experimenting too.  :D

The only other thing that determined fiber removal was the rake.  I started increasing it from the 10° or so that was on the stock blade and found that 13° was where the blade began to chatter in my pine.  Every time I ground a tooth with greater than 13°, it gave me trouble.  So, 13° is where my sharpener is set. 

A degree isn't very much.  To experiment within a 5 degree window was difficult.  I wouldn't vow for my accuracy but I had to use the measuring tools available.  At least I found that I could increase the rake and get better production without harming the saw, the blade or the product.

One thing to acknowledge is that the heavier and wider bands cost more. 
The stock cost more, but so do the mechanics that are used to keep them in line.   You aren't just talking about the band, but the saw itself.

I get a kick out of one of the harder selling band manufacturers.  There band is more expensive (because it's better, according to the salesman).  If you change the RPM's on the engine, the size pulley on the engine, modify the bandwheels, sort logs, etc., etc., You will find that their band is the panacea of saw bands.

Well, I guess, if you changed all the parts on your family car, it might stand a chance of winning the Daytona 500 too.  They have been very successful in getting some sawyers to change their equipment to match the band manufacturers band.  I'm of the mind that the band is an instrument of a bigger design and each manufacturer has his own idea.  It makes more sense to me that a band be built for the saw rather than change every one's saw to fit the band.  I find the sales technique humorous and figure they must be pretty smart to pull it off.  It's kind of a "tail wagging the dog" approach. :D

I also found that the recommended blade for my Baker 3638 didn't work so good in smaller lengths for my Woodmizer.  I'm told that the band is built on a metric base and, though called 1 1/4 is actually a little wider.  It works really good on Baker's saw.  It gave my LT40HD fits.

I also don't want to minimize the effectiveness of Woodmizer's bands.  They make a good product.  I found a couple of other "good Products" out there too.  I've heard a member here downgrade my favorite blade, calling it a "cheapy".   I never considered it cheap, just a little more inexpensive.  ....and it works.  When I hear comments like this, I consider that a company that has been making blades since 1832 must have some experience.  .....and they work. :D

So, along with the macho thing, we are looking for a band that will make our saw cut without being concerned with tuning the saw the way the manufacturer intended.  It's the same kind of logic as finding the tire for our car that will allow us to take the kids to school and also carry a load of logs.   It's not the tire that makes the difference, it's the car.  You have to match the tire to the car and the car to the job.

Putting all this aside, consider this.  It's the band doing the sawing .  If all guide systems were equal, all bandwheels the same, RPM's were always constant, the only thing that makes a difference is the band.   That holds true only on the same saw though.  That's real life.   You can't cut any faster than your band allows whether your saw has High-speed muffler bearings and anti-skid, hardened-chrome hubcaps or not.

You have to match the band to the saw and be happy with the saw's ability to drive it.

When picking a band, take other sawyers recommendations with a grain of salt.  They are telling you what works on their saw.  Take the band blade manufacturer's recommendation with a grain of salt, they are selling bands.  Listen to the saw manufacturer and make your adjustments based on what you find that works and is the most economical.  Cheap isn't always economical, but, neither is expensive, best.  Be your own man and judge for yourself.  It's you who is standing in the bitter cold and melting heat trying to break up the log. :)

leweee

just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

customsawyer

I agree 100% with what Tom said. I got my first blades from WM  and got the ones they recomended with my mill. I've tried 3 other blades since (not three boxes just three blades) the last blades that I bought were the ones WM recomended for my mill.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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