Skid Steer attachments

[Raider Bill]

What is the differance between skid steer attachment and whatever the norm is on a front loading tractor around 40 hp?
Do they have more choices, better price?
Getting ready for spring when I buy a tractor.

[TexasTimbers]

I won't get too verbose here, because this topic is touchy with tractor-lovers.  ;)

I own both a tractor and a skid steer. I am not biased toward either but I use the skid steer more because for my application, terrain, and what i do with it, it is far more versatile, quicker, effecient, and for skidding on level or near level terrian in my opinion it is much safer.
The number of attachments available for a skid steer can't hardly be numbered. Same with tractors. I don't know for sure but i think the number of attachments, not counting farming implements like plows and all that which a skid steer is no good at at all, the number of construction and general-use implements is more numerous for skid steers.

Now I know this is touchy touchy as I say and I LOVE tractors, and there are some things a tractor can do that a skid can't do and vice versa, but the number of things a skid steer can do better, exceeds that of what a tractor can IMHO except for farming purposes for which the tractor was invented and excels like no other machine can.
Again, this is my opinion. I remember a thread once where I got a little nasty and had to apolgize for my snotty remarks, after some took offense at me posting my opinion so please, remember I am saying this is my opinion.
I mean no offense toward tractors, tractor lovers, or Americana in general. 

[moosehunter]

I have a 43 horse 'bota with the skid steer quick attach loader. I have the original bucket ( with teeth) a set of pallet forks ( a MUST have around the mill) and a grapple that I am trying to build myself.
If you are buying a tractor, get it with the universal skid steer attachment. The possabilities are endless.
mh

[Peakebrook]

It is the old "depends."

What are you planning on doing with the machine?  I have a JD 280 with metal tracks over the tires.  I call it the roto-tiller, because of the disturbed soil it leaves behind.  It is messy working around the mill.  However, it is great in the woods.  I have numerous attachments, including grapple bucket, 12 inch tree shear, stump grinder, spade, etc.  It is very versatile, but don't take it on a lawn.

Around the mill, I prefer using a tractor with forks.  Dealing with tree lenth logs, I find the tractor works better using a Farmi winch.

The other negative about a skid-steer is they are a pain to crawl in and out of a day long.  Fuel consumption is also very high on my skid-steer. 

[Raider Bill]

I'm going to be starting from scratch on 69 acres of old forestry land I bought in TN. My Chosen machine will have to be very versitale but powerful enough for the job ahead. So far my list contains, front loader, grapple something for brush, pallett forks, bush hog, auger, wood splitter, some kind of pole extension for lifting high,and box blade. Back hoe attachement maybe depending on budget. Maybe around 40 hp. 4wd would be nice but I don't have any steep hills.
I'll have to rent a dozer for a couple days to start clearing a road, home site, trails etc. After that the tractor will take over.

[TexasTimbers]

Don't go for the lightweight grapple. I made that mistake. At least the brand I bought was no good. the cylinder brackets broke the VERY FIRST time i clamped down an a small log. When I call the company to inquire if this was common (I knew it had to be you can look at the engineering and tell it is a bad design) I was basically told that it was my fault for ordering the lightweight version to begin with.  :
Ah, I see. If I don't want my grapple to break on the first use I should not order the one which is designed to break on the first use.  :D

[Polly]

 8) 8) 8) 8) :Pif you plan on getting a tractor and putting a front end loader on it with pallet fork attachment you definately want a tractor with four wheel drive if you pick up anything heavy with loader you loose traction on rear wheels on sloping ground if going up hill you are stuck and going down hill could be very exciting  8) 8)

[woodbowl]

What is the differance between skid steer attachment and whatever the norm is on a front loading tractor around 40 hp?

I have a 539 IMT with a lift pole and it does OK for general log loading, but it is a pain to always be turned around backwards.

I would like to have a skid steer, but I don't want too many machines to keep up. In other words, I want one machine that does it all.  :

The speed and agility of a skid steer can't be matched by a 4WD tractor, but some tractors do have some advantages and features that recover some of the loss, such as shuddle shift and hydrostatic drive.

So, .... what brands are among the fastest 40 HP tractors?

[Bibbyman]

Our Terex has a standard Bobcat interfece.  We have a bucket, forks, and grapple for it.  I've been using the grapple to clean up burned out bulldozer piles. It works real good to pull out rootballs,  junk metal, fence wire, etc.

A month back I was at the small farm show and looked at some Korean made tractors that had the standard Bobcat interface.  I thought that was a plus.

[TexasTimbers]

Bibby that sure is a nice machine. Everytime I borrow my buddy's Manitou I struggle with that 10th Commandment "Thou Shall Not Covet."

Raider if you do look at skid steers that Gehl 7810E is a monster.

[Raider Bill]

I think for my applicaqtion a tractor would be best. Many people I have chatted with like the Yanmar, supposed to be a John Deer clone or something. I do want to be able to change implements fast and have a broad range to choose from plus price is an issue.

On another note, I'm getting great advise from you guys, Thanks everyone for the help.

[TexasTimbers]

I concur with the Yanmar opinions. i have one of their 42HP diesles in my skid steer and it has been a joy.

Enjoy your new toy machine!

[Raider Bill]

I've noticed a bunch of Yanmar boats around her lately, big off shore ones.
In looking at the heavy equiptment trader, i'm seeing several yanmar package deals that include a front loader, bush hog and trailer which I will need.

[Qweaver]

What is the differance between skid steer attachment and whatever the norm is on a front loading tractor around 40 hp?
Do they have more choices, better price?
Getting ready for spring when I buy a tractor.

I'm not sure if you are wanting to know if it's better to own a skidsteer or a tractor, or if you want to use skidsteer attachments on a tractor?  I've found my 3130 Kubota to be up to everything I've needed in clearing the land and stumps, preparing the site and digging ditches and footings, lifting timbers and work around the sawmill.  I've carried and loaded 28" x 20' logs on my sawmill with it.  I do wish that I would have bought the 38 hp version.  But I can load this tractor on a 2 axle trailer and it's small enough to maneuver thru the woods even with the backhoe on and the next size bigger tractor w/loader and BH would overload my trailer.
Quinton

[Raider Bill]

Tractor is my choice, question was about the attachments. what would give me the most versitillity and ease to change tools.

[Captain]

Here's my log mover




and here's its new attachment, hopefully trying it out tomorrow




I only wish my tractor had a skid steer attachment plate on the front loader.

Captain

[TexasTimbers]

Raider and others who may be in the market for a grapple. i learned the hard way on buying a "lightweight" grapple.
The design of this cylinder bracket is bad and should have been beefed up with thicker metal at the confluence of where these members meet.
I can fix it but I should not have to do it. just be wary when buying a grapple that you eye-ball this junction real well because most grapples have the same basic design, and this is a flaw whcih can be spotted before you buy if you know to look for it. i didn't know.

You have to look close but the bracket is bent back further than the picture can show  . . .

This is what it looks like, and it is much worse on both claws now so that holding small brush isn't possible.
Now it's just another fix-it-up on my list.

[Raider Bill]

Here's my log mover
I only wish my tractor had a skid steer attachment plate on the front loader.
Captain

Why?

[Captain]

because I could share attachments.....

[SawDust_Studios]

Well I can say from experience, I have both and find both have their many uses. I couldn't live without at least one of them.  I've had my JD Skid Steer for about a month now and wondering how I got along without it.  I got the hydraulic q-tach which makes swapping attachments very quick and easy.  I have 4'  forks and a LARGE material bucket for it   I have a bucket and 3' forks for the tractor that a friend is modifying with a grapple thumb.  All are q-tach.

I've had a tractor now for about 10 years. I started with a compact JD and now I have a Farmtrac.  It about 33 hp, but a nice compact loader and can accept all of the skid steer attachments. My uncle is the largest dealer in the US,  so I tried it. (shamless plug)  ;)
http://www.farmtrac.com/

They bought rights to the design of the fords or something and use the same Mitsubishi Engine.   For the price, I love it. (much less than 18k with loader) Well built machine.   Will outlift the ole JD by a mile.  It will lift about 2k and its small enough to get around the yard rather well.   It has 3-pt hitch which I also have a forklift attachment on that will lift 3k.  It also has rear hydraulics on it, so it the past, we've ran hoses up to the front of the tractor to use a skid steer post hole digger.  Makes drilling holes alot easier with down pressure. Of course this is before I bought the skid steer  8)

The tractor is nice to move slabs and cut-offs from the edger , we keep it on that side of the mill. We use the Skid Steer to load logs onto the mill.  The nice thing about a skid steer is it will get in very tight corners and it will outlift the tractor.  The bad thing about a skid steer is that it will really tear up your log yard. (If you zero turn alot.)  We use the skid steer too to get ties off the mill and to unload logs that the tractor won't lift.

There are a ton of attachments available for a skid steer. I've seen some really neat ones on ebay.  Lifting poles for trusses that have hydraulic booms, various grapples, hole diggers, forks, sweepers.  You name it, somebody has probably made it.  You can also buy q-tach plates on put on machines to convert them.  But I can't put my mower or my plows on my skid steer.   :-\

I agree with captain.. nothing like having quick tach on your tractor.  I've been through unbolting buckets before.  Not going back. 

Of course there are other options out there.  Bobcat used to make an articulating loader that looked like a tractor version of a bobcat. It had 3pt on the back and hydraulics on front and back.  Would turn rather sharply and lift about 3-4k. If I only had one machine, I'd look for something like this.

[Rockn H]

As someone that has been doing a lot a new tractor shopping, and as someone that has used and not at all tore-up about borrowing my friends skid steers and their attachments.   I would say go with a Mahindra tractor.  Both Mahindra and Kubota have skid steer type quick attach frontend loaders standard, and hydraulic quick connects are opptional.  So you can use any of the oh so many attachments made for a skid steer.  Even grapples and posthole diggers.  These are the only two name brands I've found in this area that have front end loaders made with skid steer type quick attach.  I say Mahindra because of price and quality is just as good.  JD and other brands don't seem to offer skid steer type QA so their loaders aren't as easy to find attachments for.  You also have to pull pins and safety pins instead of just flipping levers.

[beenthere]

Rockn H
I'm stayin out of this, 'cept to say the JD also has the skid-steer quick attach for their loaders.
I'm thinkin.....nope, stayin out now..... ;D

[TexasTimbers]

Whichever type or brand machine a fella goes with I think he ought to plan his purchase so that his machine is as versatile as it can be for his application, or he limits his ability to do tasks as effeciently as possible.

On a woodworking forum I frequent my signature reads:

Buy the tool not the wrapper. If you want to be a brand man invest in their stock; if you want to be a tool man invest some time into research. Superior features and performance will deliver quality and quantity much faster than brand loyalty.

I think this is just as valid with practically any purchase but then that is just my opinion again.  I was suprised to see that a survey showed that most people put brand loyalty ahead of the tool/machine/product features and performance ratings that they are actually needing.

[SawDust_Studios]

Rockn H
I'm stayin out of this, 'cept to say the JD also has the skid-steer quick attach for their loaders.
I'm thinkin.....nope, stayin out now..... ;D

I think you'll find that most manufactors are providing this as an option. And why wouldn't they  ???  It seems like common sense to me for anyone using more than just a bucket.

[SawDust_Studios]

On a woodworking forum I frequent my signature reads:

Buy the tool not the wrapper. If you want to be a brand man invest in their stock; if you want to be a tool man invest some time into research. Superior features and performance will deliver quality and quantity much faster than brand loyalty.

This is so true.  We have alot of farms around here that are either all green or all red.   Now, if you look in my shop, there are several colors of machines in there.  White, Gold, Green, a different green.  Each purchase was researched on the net to see what was the best bang for the buck and what would get the job done.   

The closest thing I have to true brand loyalty is my sawmill equipment... I guess I just like Orange  :D

[Rockn H]

Now y'all, I wasn't trying to pick on any colors. ;D I was just naming two manufacturers that I knew offered a front end loader that you could take an attachment straight off of a Bobcat, New Holland,Cat, etc. skid steer and put it on.  I didn't know JD offered a frontend loader that would.  I was told in Aug by a JD dealer that they didn't.  Now all the JD loaders I looked at were quick change, but not skid steer style.  If I'm saying that right.  So if I was spreading false info. My bad. Y'all keep me straight. ;)

The main thing I was trying to say, is that no matter what kind of tractor, I would recommend one with a loader that excepts skid steer attachments.  There's a lot of them and they can often be found cheap second hand.

[Furby]

Easier to rent an attachment as well.

[scsmith42]

I ditto the other's recommendations regarding getting a tractor that has the "universal skid steer attachment plate" on the front end loader.  By getting this, you open yourself up to a wealth of relatively inexpensive attachments.  Otherwise, you are stuck with the specific manufacturer's brand (or type) of attachments, which limits your options.

I have several tractors, one of which has the universal skid steer attachment plate and accepts skid steer attachments.  It's the one that I use the most...

Scott

[Bibbyman]

We have a Lund grapple.  It's built very heavy - mostly 1" and 3/4" plate stock.  It's only about 40" wide but I'm not a bit afraid of damaging it. 



Here is Eric Lund at the Mid-West Forestry Show showing how it can bite a log on one end with out a problem.

[TexasTimbers]

There's a lot of them and they can often be found cheap second hand.

you're right on about that. There's quite a few folks making there living doing nothing but buying and reselling skid steer attachments. They buy them from individuals and businesses who are financially distressed, power wash them, replace any leaking hoses and resell them to guys who don't mind saving a buck.
Had I not needed to have the grapple pronto I could have bvought a used heavy duty one for the price I paid for the light weight. the MAIN reason I bought the light wegiht one was not to save money, but to add as little as possible to my 2000# tipping weight. My lightweight grapple only weighs #400 but the heavy weight by the same company weighed #1100 so that would have only left me #900 on the outside edge. But at that weight the machine kind of rocks along with the back wheels airborne much af the time.
I do need a bigger machine. I should probably invest in a front loader for my tractor for the heaviest logs and use the skid steer for the other 90% of the work.
It's just no comparison about how much faster  the skid steer is than the tractor working in the yard and the kind of woods I work in. But together, they make a great combination.

Bibbyman that grapple you have is a beaut!

[Raider Bill]

so far on my list is a 4wd tractor 40 hp or bigger with skid steer attachments

[Engineer]

Bill,

If you have a John Deere dealer nearby, go and look at their 110 TLB, which is basically a scaled-down version of the 310-series backhoes.  They are around 45 horsepower (I think) and have two very nice features worth considering.  First, the backhoe is detachable and comes off quickly to reveal a standard three-point hitch.  Second, the front bucket is a grapple-type bucket but is also a standard skid-steer QA mounting system, so you can pop the bucket off and put any standard SS QA attachment on the front.  I don't think you can get the front bucket hydraulics in high-flow, there's just not enough horsepower to run the HF system, but I could be wrong.  Anyway, a friend of mine is considering buying one of these, and I have looked at them myself several times over the past few years.  Just haven't been able to pony up the ca$h for one yet or I'd give you a first-hand user's report.    JD is the only company at this point that I'm truly loyal to, brandwise, and only because of my local dealer.  I might look elsewhere if he wasn't there for me, but dealer support means a lot to me when I don't have a clue how to fix things sometimes.

[Raider Bill]

Any Idea what that baby runs$ Just so I have a starting point.

[Engineer]

List is $43k, a dealer probably can do better, I see them selling used for $25-35k all the time.

[EdK]

1. Skid steer style loader attachment - all the way.  ;D

2. Not growing up around tractors but getting some experience with my brother's JD before buying for myself I got to hate removing/re-installing the 3-pt/subframe backhoe attachment. When it came time to buy my own I've left the 3-pt uncluttered and for almost the same $$$$ got a used Case 580 instead of an attachment.

[scsmith42]

Bill, re tractors, three years ago I purchased a new Kioti DK65 4WD tractor with cab, ac and heat.  It came with a front end loader that is self leveling, accepts the skid steer attachments, and is capable of picking up about 3600 lbs at the pins.

It also included a 4 in one bucket, an oversized set of forks with a hydraulic grapple, a round bale attachment, and a hydraulic cylinder that lets me cant one side of the three point hitch from inside the cab.

The engine is rated at 65HP, the tires are the heavy duty industrial type, and it uses the "shuttle shift" type of transmission (all gears syncronized).

I paid 35K for the package out the door.  The same package w/o the cab would be about 29K.

At the time, I sent out an RFQ to every major tractor manufacturer for a package similar to this.  Kioti gave me the best price, and the best overall package, and the most capacity in the loader and hydraulic system.  The JD equivalent was 30% more.

It's light enough for me to move around behind my F350 with no problems.  The Kioti is very, very similar to the Kubota, is made in South Korea by the same company that made Kubota's for years.

I've put a little over 800 hours on it in 3 years, and have not done anything other than routine maintenance.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.

Scott

[Raider Bill]

Scott and everyone thanks for the tips, I'll be buying early spring.

[Dave Shepard]

I'll try to give my opinion on this without stirring up too much trouble. I have the Kubota L48 Tractor Loader Backhoe. It is the best compact tractor I have run, and I have run a lot of them. I will try to list pros/cons for this machine, IMO.

PROS:

It's a Kubota, they have a great reputation for reliability, service, and well thought out designs.
Most HP, lift capacity and lift hieght in class.
Fastest R/R of backhoe, it comes of in 30 seconds, and will go just as fast if you back up to it square, you just hook the hoses and it clamps itself to the back of the tractor.
Backhoe has two hyd pumps, one of which is dedicated to the swing circuit for faster digging.
Best, IMO, hydrostatic on the market. One pedal, and very precise control. All the other hydros I have run have been mushy at best. There is no coasting when you change directions, if you are going forward and stomp it into reverse, it changes direction NOW, however you cannot hurt it by doing this, it is over pressure protected.
Skid steer type QA is factory available.
Machine is a serious industrial machine, not just a farm tractor with a 3 point hitch backhoe.
This machine will easily run a 6' rotary mower, 6' box blade, Farmi type winch, etc.
Factory thumb and quick change buckets are available for the backhoe.
The tractor is made in Japan, but the loader and backhoe are made in US with SAE fasteners. Incidentally I think this makes it about the most american compact on the market. JD is made by Yanmar BTW.
It is Orange!
There are many more points, but these are the most important.

Cons:

This is an industrial machine and carries a price tag to match. I paid $40,490 for my machine, which included every option available, including front hyd. for grapples etc. and top-n-tilt, which a three valve hyd system that has cylinders to control the top and side links on the 3ph. The hydraulics were a$2500 option.
The L48 has a three range transmission, Low is for serious pushing or working in extremely tough conditions, Medium is your general purpose working range and High is for road travel only. My only complaint about this is that there is a big gap between M and H. Sometimes if you are shuttling long distances it would be nice to have something in between these gears.
No factory cab, that I am aware of, although there are aftermarket ones.
Heavy, my machine with loaded tires is over 9000 lbs., I move it with my 2500 Dodge, safely, but it is not something you want to move without the proper equipment and experience, especially as I also move the pallet forks and box blade at the same time.



I hope this long winded spiel is of some help. I don't offer the L48 as the end all be all of compact tractors, it certainly isn't. I just hope my experience can be of some use to others. While this machine will definately be capable of doing the work you need, as I have done a lot of this kind of work with it, you will have to decide what you need to get your job done.
I also don't want to discourage you from the other manufacturers, as one of those models may suit you just fine. I don't know much about the Mahindras and other newer brands, they may work just fine for your budget. Kubota was a new brand once too!

Just to give you and idea of the size of machine the JD 110 was introduced to compete with the L48, but is about 10% shy on all capacities(HP lift hieght, lift weight) The L48 is 48 HP, and will lift a full bucket of wet gravel (about 3/4 yard heaped) with ease. Tonight I picked up an older pine butt log that was 36"x 10' with the backhoe off and it handled it with ease, although it would be safer with the hoe on. I have used my machine for my landscaping business and on my family farm since it was new and it has performed beyond expectations. I hope this isn't too much info.


Dave

[Snag]

I bought this NH TC40 last year....



It was great to have a machine to help out my poor back.  When I decided to buy forks for it, I went with the skid steer quick attach style forks, bought the quick attach mechanism for the loader and cut off the old connectors off the bucket and welded a quick attach plate to it.  It cost a total of $1200 and it has been worth every penny.

[beenthere]

What skid-steer attachments do you attach? 

Do you need to manually flip the lock's down, or do you have the hyd. lockers?

[Snag]

They are the manual ones.  I thought about going hydraulic, but really didnt feel like messing with it.  I would have had to run more hyd up to the front.   Also, I dont know what the price difference would have been. 

[woodhick]

Snag, where did you get your quick attach plate?  I have a Bush Hog loader on my Kubota now that does not have quick attach :(.  Thinking of changing over.

[Snag]

I bought it right from New Holland.  I'm sure a local Kubota dealer could hook you up with the right stuff.

[johnjbc]

Dave
I also have an L48 Kubota and have been very happy with it
I didn't  order it with the skid steer Quick attach but had the dealer order one in for me. It's a great Idea !
I would be interested in some pictures of how they taped in the remote hydraulics on yours.
.
You can see the Quick-Attach in this picture. I removed the bucket to get enough lift to pink up the track