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Nails in purchased lumber What do you guys think is resonable?

Started by Duncan, October 25, 2006, 11:30:20 AM

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Duncan

Dear All,

You may have noticed that I had posted looking for two large pieces of walnut that had been air dried recently.  Unfortunately I had to go outside of my business to purchase the lumber and had to pay an obscene amount of money for it.  That is when the issues started.

First the shipment arrives and there is only one piece, not two.  I called back down and got another piece shipped but I am sure that I have could have reduced my shipping charges had they been shipped together.  I wasn't too worried about that...

Then the second piece arrived and it was time to set them on the mill to skim cut them and get them ready for the planer as they were a bit too rough to go through my planer.

At the mill the first piece went well.  However the second piece in about the middle of the beam I heard the distinctive "tink" of metal.  Being over at Dave Gilman's house we had a large hoo haw and then flipped over the piece after having changed the blade and proceeded to cut the other side,  another distinctive "tink" and a completely different group of iron.

Fortunately I was able to salvage enough of the piece to fill the order but I gave a phone call to the supplier and had a discussion with him.  I suggested that he compensate me for the damaged blades and call it good.  I did mention previously that I had paid an obscene amount of money for the pieces and the two blades would only be about 6% of the amount of the order.  I was shocked to hear from the supplier that he couldn't possibly guarantee that his lumber was free of nails and he would gladly replace it but wouldn't be responsible for any damage.

Being in basically the same business I explained that I would not be upset at all if the iron was hidden inside of the beam but I had pictures showing that the nails were originally hit during the milling process and I couldn't believe that they didn't notice that it was there when it was milled.  How would you guys handle that kind of situation?

Kelly
Kelly

beenthere

Not good.
Reasonable?  Don't buy there anymore.
Sounds like you tried to get compensation (sounds reasonable to me) but that failed.

Next time, if you even have a next time with this outfit, specify in the contract "no nails" or 'no hardware'.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Duncan

Kelly

leweee

 Tell Dave to get a metal detector before he wrecks anymore equipment. ::)
I'm sure Frank could help Dave on this one ;D
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

Tom

The loss of business to your supplier is the best compensation you could ask for.  If the guy was concerned about you, his product or his business, he would  have been a liittle more ameniable.  After all, it was just giving some of your money back to you, not his having to take out a bank loan.

The thing most business forget is that their reputation doesn't end with the transaction.  Their actions can follow them for years.  It doesn't even matter if they think they are right or wrong.

You surely don't want to do business with them anymore unless you might have been talking to the wrong person and get compensation from the owner later.  You also don't want your peers blind sided by this companies mode of operation when you have had the experience.  I'm not talking about putting yourself in a position of slandering an individual or company.  I'm talking about you stateing your experience and opinion if asked.  The good will most companies treasure is difficult earn and more difficult to earn back once lost.  You owe it to yourself and the industry to give honest reports on your experiences.

If you take it to a personal level, be sure you are dealing man to man and not in a public arena.

Dana

On a positive note, at least the piece didn't go through the planner before being discovered. :)
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Jeff

I dont understand how they could miss the nails. Even as a commercial sawyer when I hit nails, and I always knew, I made sure the guys tailing the mill knew and they ALWAYS, either removed the offending hardware by pulling it out or cutting it out, and if they could not do that, the whole section where the hardware was was trashed. Even when we knew the lumber was going to be something like a simple steel sticker, it was taken care of. A customer should never get iron in lumber that has already been struck by the previous manufacturing process.  I certainly would not buy from them again.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Duncan

Thanks,

I have vented and if anyone is trying to buy walnut in the northwest and wants to know where to stay away from give me a private message.

Kelly
Kelly

Gilman

I think Duncan owes me an appology.  :'(  He accused me of, "YOU think this is funny, DON'T YOU?"

Remember Duncan, those were band new blades, not "been 5 times through resharp."










WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Ron Wenrich

When he said he would "gladly replace it", did he mean he would send you another piece of lumber?  If that's the case, wouldn't that other piece of lumber more than offset your blade expenses?  Especially, since your order was filled.

I still wouldn't do business with him, since he tried to sell you lumber with trash metal.  If the metal was sawn through, there should have been some discoloration, even in walnut.

Fence or nails?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Gilman

Ron,
There were nails and fence staples.  The pictures don't show it well but, one of the staples was cut by the vendor's mill.  In the last picture I posted, you can see the rough cut after the staple was hit.

I was using my chainsaw when Kelly hit the first staple and I even heard it.  This vendor's sawyer doesn't have any excuse for not removing the staple he'd hit.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Ron Wenrich

The vendor's sawyer had no excuse for sending lumber with known metal. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Duncan

Dave,

Thanks for posting the pictures.  I always enjoy seeing myself frantically smoking a cigarette trying to remember exactly how long the board had to be for the customer on the verge of tears.  It turned out that there was 6" more board than I needed to fill the order due to a change from the time I ordered the lumber than when it was required to be filled.  Therefore I filled the order with the iron free portion of the stick.   I explained that the order on my end was able to be filled and I would not have to return the lumber and wait for another piece because that would cause me to miss dates etc.

I just didn't feel that I should pay 450$(including shipping) for a stick of lumber that had nails in it, and asked to be compensated for the damaged blades (about 64$).  I didn't want to screw around sending stuff back and waiting for another piece.  I would end up with more time into filling the order.

I will send him the pictures if he hasen't seen them here and try to negotiate again when I am not still angry.  I agree about the comments about not having any excuse for sending the lumber out because it is almost impossible not to know when you hit a nail.

However I have sold some cedar fence boards for a steep discount that had nails in them to a customer that knew they had nails in them.
Kelly

Rail-O-Matic


Its always hard to deal with when you hit some metal in any piece of timber, with a brand new chain, it always happens this way for some reason, that amount of metal in a log especially when the former wood yard possibly knew it was there is totaly unexceptable in my book, I once came across this same thing when we went to cut some logs up for a farmer, who had moved the logs up to his farm yard, well away from where they were felled.

We found out later that they were from a hedge clearing progam, for building a new shed for his cows, he knew that there would be plenty of metal, saples and wire in there from the years of new fences he had errected over a long time, now we always make sure to ask the seller/s if they know where they got it from, and metal detect as a standard course of action.
I know one shouldn't have to do this, but some people will sell anything to make a buck, especially here in Yorkshire, where they farmers have very short arms and very deep pocket linings, Only Kiding,

I was milling a 200 year old apple tree in a village garden earlier this spring, nice sized trunk, which was felled by another woodsman, he said to the people there, that it might be worth a bit of money to some turner and he didn't want to cut her up for firewood.

When we got there it looked like a good deal for 50 quid, 28 inches wide 12 feet long, now that's cheap for a log that size, so my son and I set too and started to mill, on the third plank, we hit something hard, so I cut into the beast and found two huge U staples, where a washing line or something like that had been used, we told the owners who looked through some older photo's and there it was, as plain as day, now we know why the other guy, didn't want to put his saw through it.

My pal and milling friend went to his brothers place to cut down an old walnut at the botom of the garden, he got nearly all of it done, and on the very last plank, he hit something, he continued to cut because this was the best plank at 2 inches thick, after totally wrecking his chain by eventually cutting through it, he used his old Homelite to cut it out, it turned out to be a 3/4 inch steel shackle, which was used to teather a second world war, barrage baloon against the German planes.

Oh and if anyone offers you any old timbers from around Berlin, give it a miss, because the millions of bullets and shells never, this is why the trees in and around the biggest battle areas are much bigger than any others.

Lock and load, Davy.

Logg-saw bandmill, Stihl 088, Stihl MS880, Stihl MS660, Stihl 017, 018,  Husky 385XP, Husky 395, Husky 350, Echo WES 350ES, Echo CS 27T, Jonsered 2150 Turbo, Jonsered 111S, good old saw still going after more than 20 years hard service.

Ron Wenrich

So, what's a quid?  Us yanks are pretty ignorant to other measures of money.   :D

I'm impressed by a 200 year old apple.  Ours never last that long.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Rail-O-Matic

A quid is our slang word for our 1 pound sterling.

The apple tree was planted with several others when the town house was built just after 1815, so the present owners say, there could be a discrepancy of around 30 years, but its still pretty old for an apple tree as you say, it measured 28 inches wide up to about 7 feet high, before it branched out into two main bows measuring 17 inches across/dia, for another 5 feet.

When we were cutting it, she gave off the most heavenly scent, just like when eating an apple, and still fills a certain corner with its aroma laying in board form and make some nice bagpipes chanters when its dry.
Logg-saw bandmill, Stihl 088, Stihl MS880, Stihl MS660, Stihl 017, 018,  Husky 385XP, Husky 395, Husky 350, Echo WES 350ES, Echo CS 27T, Jonsered 2150 Turbo, Jonsered 111S, good old saw still going after more than 20 years hard service.

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