The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?  (Read 24403 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline woodbeard

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Dismal,TN
  • Gender: Female
  • Sailors have sea legs, sawyers have board feet.
    • Dismal Guitars
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2006, 08:26:18 pm »
Quote
I am concerned to hear that some feel that they have received "intentionally misleading" advice from TimberKing. We make a point of NOT going for the "quick and aggressive" sell.

Will, the main point of contention people seem to have in this regard is the comparison, in TK's advertisements, between the 4 post and "monorail" systems that suggest that the latter of the two makes for a wobbly saw, and a wavy cut. Many folks feel that this in particular is misleading. I'm just trying to clear up this point, as I feel it could be useful feedback for you.
I contacted Timberking several times when I was shopping for a mill, and always found your staff most helpful, professional, and courteous.
Thanks for sponsoring the forum and being available.  :)


Offline LOGDOG

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2006, 08:42:09 pm »
Yep (4) ... had fun with all of them. As Chris noted, support from WoodMizer while in the field is excellent BAR NONE not just looking at sawmill companies - I'm talking any kind of company I've dealt with for anything. As bandmills go they'd be my first choice again. I've flirted with others but in the end always come back to WoodMizer.

The other day while helping my friend with his new "other brand" bandsaw mill I find myself having silent thoughts while running the mill (like we all do with our earplugs in). I kept hearing myself say "I guess that's why WoodMizer does it that way and not this way."

The apache's used to say "there are many ways to get to the same place". I'd say this would accurately describe sawmill design and function. Have to admit though, there is such a thing as a "better mouse trap" and WoodMizer seems to have it on the grand scale. Sales and customer testimonials seem to back that up.

We'll be excited to hear what choice you make Greg. Sounds like you have a supportive wife backing you up too. That's cool. I'm lucky to have one like that myself. :)

LOGDOG

Offline SawDust_Studios

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Breezewood, PA (Central, PA)
  • Gender: Male
    • Sawdust Studios
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2006, 09:20:30 pm »
Are you like that hair plug guy, what's his name ???  Not only are you the president, but also a client  :D

As a proud owner of a woodmizer, I must say, I was happy with your salesforce when determining the mill for me.  I just got likely and found a used WM when I was looking at the timberking and just never went back.

Now, if you want to send a me a shiny red 2400, I'd be happy to give you the opportunity to sway my decision...and write up a nice unbiased review.  ;) ;)
 

Since I haven't posted for a while I should be clear that folks know my biases: I'm the president of TimberKing.
Making Sawdust on a Woodmizer LT40SHD CAT 51 /WM Twin Blade Edger and WM DH Kiln

Offline DR_Buck

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2580
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Northern VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Nuff said.....
    • Got Logs?
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2006, 10:23:29 pm »
Quote
  Wifey also thinks it would be fun work to do some sawing for the public. 


Hydraulics !


This is by far the best suggestion I received when I asked similar questions almost 3 years ago.  You can't make money if you spend all your time loading and turning big logs.   And you for sure can't do it by yourself.    Hope "Wifey" is ready to help turn thoes 24: oaks over. ;D   


BTW     I bought ORANGE
Hidden Acres Farm
I got a shotgun, a shovel backhoe and 57 acres!

Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

Offline Kcwoodbutcher

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Grandview Mo
  • Gender: Male
  • Startin' to get the hang of it
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2006, 11:46:17 pm »
There's a barely used 1600 in the FOR SALE section if you are interested.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Offline flip

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Jasper, Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • The Nations WOOD Capital
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2006, 04:58:36 pm »
I've got a B-20 and love it's guts but you should run at least one mill before you buy. 

The reason you should not buy any mill.......there are already too many saw dust addicts here, we don't need another :D ;)
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline JimBuis

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 638
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Alton, IL
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2006, 05:39:28 pm »
"Inveniemus viam aut faciemus."  A quote attributed to Hannibal.  In English, We will find a way -- or we will make one!

Hannibal:  the Carthaginian general who led an elephant-riding battalion across the Alps to attack Rome in the 3rd Century B.C.



Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

Offline thurlow

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Lauderdale County, TN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2006, 06:35:59 pm »
I thought it was, "I came, I saw, I sawed" ;D
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Offline Greg Cook

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Statesville, TN
  • Gender: Male
  • Almost Heaven....Statesville, TN
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2006, 07:30:55 pm »
Much appreciation to all of you who took time to knock the dust off your hands and throw in your 2 cents worth.  A special thanks to Mr. Will Johnson for joining in.  I do have to agree that the literature and DVD seem to be a bit heavy on knocking "the other mill". Don't spend so much time telling me what's wrong with another brand, just tell me what's great about yours.  Also, Will, I think you do have reason to be proud or your saws...apparently others think so too!

Y'all's responses have been just what I hoped for-letting me know the real-world capabilities, pitfalls, quirks, etc.  I know most folks are proud of what they own, but want to see  some little things changed on the new models. I get the feeling that these saw companies are actually listening to you, and incorporating your ideas into their new designs. Doesn't matter if it's monorail or four-post (or swingblades, for that matter), if you like it, you'll enjoy running it and be a better sawyer.

Kenrod, fstedy, and treecyclers-good of you to respond, and I think Will oughta send y'all a few blades for being good rep's ;D

I'm still watching the "For Sale" section, as well as Sawmill Exchange and ebay.  I did have to wonder why I was seeing TK's for sale with such low hours on them (one had only 50 hours) Did they find they needed a bigger mill, or didn't like sawing, or haveing some other problems.  This was what prompted my posting on here. I'm glad I asked the right crowd.
Greg Cook
"Ain't it GOOD to be alive and be in TENNESSEE!" Charlie Daniels

Offline oldsaw

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
  • Age: 55
  • Gender: Male
  • It's a tree, it's a board, it's a....
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2006, 07:37:28 pm »
I'd like to hear from TimberKing owners (and former owners) any reasons I should NOT buy a TimberKing.  I've been looking at Woodmizers pretty hard, but thought I'd check on the TK's just to be sure of what I wanted in a mill (like dating before you marry! ) I've got the info from TK, seen the DVD, but want to hear from you guys or girls what you don't like or would change about your mills.  If you changed over, what brand did you change to and why?  Looks like a pretty decent mill, but I'd rather hear the voice of EXPERIENCE than a sales video.  Thanks for your help.

Let me give you a list of reasons...



Okay, that about does it.

One of the best out there, and some great people as well.  I've got my eye on a 1600, just too cheap and poor (and noplace to park it) to get one.  Even Bibby has to admit they're nice, and that's really saying something.

Mark
So many trees, so little money, even less time.

Stihl 066, Husky 262, Husky 350 (warmed over), Homelite Super XL, Homelite 150A

Offline pigman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3958
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Northern Kentucky, Ky, USA
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2006, 10:58:57 pm »




 I did have to wonder why I was seeing TK's for sale with such low hours on them (one had only 50 hours) Did they find they needed a bigger mill, or didn't like sawing, or haveing some other problems. 
Greg Cook
I have seen several mills from different manufacturers for sale with only a few hours on them. Besides the reasons you mentioned, people get sick or even die. Sometimes we just have to have a new toy tool and after we get it we change our mind. ::)

Bob
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Offline jpgreen

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
  • Age: 115
  • Gender: Male
  • My Boy- Snoopy Dogbone Green
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2006, 11:21:47 pm »
There was a heck of a deal advertised out here for an WM 96 Lt40 hydraulic, edger and resaw, for around 12k but don't know if it's still available.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline footer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 421
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Fremont, NE
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2006, 11:26:55 am »
Much appreciation to all of you who took time to knock the dust off your hands and throw in your 2 cents worth.  A special thanks to Mr. Will Johnson for joining in.  I do have to agree that the literature and DVD seem to be a bit heavy on knocking "the other mill". Don't spend so much time telling me what's wrong with another brand, just tell me what's great about yours.  Also, Will, I think you do have reason to be proud or your saws...apparently others think so too!
Greg Cook

I agree.
I have an LT40 manual and plan on upgrading in the future to a super or lt70. I tried to look at all the options out there and sent for the info on the TK. Just the way they go out of their way to try and say how bad the other guys product is inferrior is enough to keep me Orange.
I am also glad to here from Will, even though I am a big WM fan. It shows that this forum can be good for more than just the end user. There is obviously a large enough market out there, and competition is  good for the consumer in the form of better products, prices, and support. After all. With no competition, what would be the motivation in making a better product, and keeping the prices within reason.
Also, If you plan on doing any work for hire, get hydraulics. You won't regret it. You can make money with a manual mill if you
1: Like working your ass off.
2: Are in an area that has no competition
3: Are smart in the way you charge for your services, and deliver a quality product/service.

Offline jpgreen

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
  • Age: 115
  • Gender: Male
  • My Boy- Snoopy Dogbone Green
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2006, 11:49:23 am »
Since the owner of TK has posted, I would want to know if It was my company what his sales man said, earlier this year.

I was looking all mills for a new purchase.  Almost bought a swinger... what was I thinkin'?..  :D

After reviewing the TK sales package, I called and during a long conversation the sales guy tells me when the subject of Wood Mizer came up was...

A. The cantilever head design is not strong, creates makes misscuts, from wobbling, etc.

B. I would need to spend an hour each time I moved the mill to "re-adjust" the mill as moving it would cause miss alignment.  Also trying to rat on WM as being weak or problematic.

As I've stated before, he had to, or felt the need to dog Woodmizer. I'm a salesman, I know when I'm being stroked, and when I'm trying to be closed.

This topic has come up before here on the FF. I would have a sit-down with this guy if it were me, cause he's damaging TK's rep and sales if you ask me.

Sorry I don't remember his name.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline oldsaw

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
  • Age: 55
  • Gender: Male
  • It's a tree, it's a board, it's a....
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2006, 12:08:15 pm »
WoodMizer-

High re-sale, superbly engineered and simple, reasonable parts cost, built like a tank, cuts square lumber.

The only thing I don't like about TK is the sales guys need to blow smoke.. Outright missleading statements..  ::)

Kind of an unfair statement in the end.  TK talks about the "potential" and their "advantage", things I expect from competitors who do things differently, WM brags about the advantages of their cantilever design.  Both are valid designs, and both work very well.  I've talked to people from both companies when I was closer to pulling the trigger (funny how life gets in the way of things) and have nothing but great things to say about both companies sales staffs with my admittedly limited contact.  Both were incredibly professional and very friendly.

All advertising must be taken with a grain of salt.  It's designed to get attention and then either entertain or entice in a direct sense.  Do you really think that buying some of these men's perfumed body washes that women will crawl all over you?  That buying a sportscar will make you sexier or beautiful women will really want you?  I hope not.  Does TK's ads state that the WM design is a steaming pile of bad engineering?  Not in my mind, it's a "this is how we do it and why" statement.  Exaggerated?  A bit, but to explain their point, not to bag on WM.  Besides, women won't want you any more with a red mill than an orange one...or an orange one than a red one.  Two of the best choices you could make.

Mark
So many trees, so little money, even less time.

Stihl 066, Husky 262, Husky 350 (warmed over), Homelite Super XL, Homelite 150A

Offline footer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 421
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Fremont, NE
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2006, 12:46:38 pm »
Just one more thing to add.
I think some of the reason for some mills coming up for sale with low hrs on them besides the ones mentioned are that
1 Some people just realize that it's not for them.
2 They find out that it's a lot more work than they thought it would be.
3 They can't find a market that is profitable.
4 They bought the mill to do some projects for their self and no longer have a need for it.
Just my 2 more cents :)

Offline tcsmpsi

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 2235
  • Age: 165
  • Location: Southeast Texas
  • Gender: Male
  • Time is relevant, only because it exists.
    • The Custom Shop/MPSI
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2006, 04:02:28 pm »
Will,

I'm not wanting to beat a dead horse, and would not make any mention if I did not sincerely believe that TK may be doing themselves an injustice by specifically targeting a well proven and unique design (obviously, being specific to WM) as being inferior.  I have gotten all the literature from TK.  So, I know what's there.

When I first came to this forum, I was looking for a good manual mill.  The 1220 was in the top of my list.  When I bespoke (being as dumb as I was to the bandmill arena) of the 'weakness' of the cantilever design, I found quickly and beyond any doubt, that was certainly not the case.  Left me pretty much with my britches down and feeling as dumb as I actually was.

Personally, I believe that TK has their own merits, and that they are strong enough to stand on their own, and certainly come from strong stock. 

Though I did not acquire either TK or WM, it certainly had nothing to do with either being in the least bit incapable or inferior.  More a matter of logistics than anything else.

Nah, color didn't even have anything to do with it.   :D


\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Offline jpgreen

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
  • Age: 115
  • Gender: Male
  • My Boy- Snoopy Dogbone Green
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2006, 05:02:35 pm »
I think TK's got a good mill, bad salesman that's all.

I absolutely hate it when a sales person tries to work me over with bull..  ::)

Many a time (if I have time), I found the owner of the company, and explained what kind of BS is going on, and got a few fired with a good deal in my pocket to boot as a result.

Just the way I am with this.  I'm not the only one that's had this BS from TK's sales.  It's been posted before..  ;) ;D

If a guy's not smart enough to sell a peice of equipment on it's own merits, he autta move on. Of course it's an entirely other matter if the company is based on that kind of sell as policy.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline jpgreen

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
  • Age: 115
  • Gender: Male
  • My Boy- Snoopy Dogbone Green
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2006, 05:30:25 pm »
I think my first experience with this was back in the 70's.

I had a friend from Kuwait, who's father is an oil Baron.  My friend was going to school at the University of San Francisco. Let me tell you they had money that we cannot comprehend.

I took him out on my boat one day, and he had to have one. We're dressed in T-shirts and jeans, and I take him to an inboard speedboat shop.  The best in town (Sacramento).

We're looking at these $20,000 Eliminators V-drives and a salesman comes up and ask's not to get in the boat. I started asking questions about the craft, and he looks at us like we're rif-raff I guess (maybe we were...  :D ), and walks off.

I grab the first employee I could find, and demanded to speak with the owner. The owner comes out, I tell him we're interested in a boat, and walks us in his office.  All the while the salesman has this goofy, befuddled look on his face.

I tell the owner what when on, and the owner whips out an order invoice. My friend takes over, and proceeds to order a custom Eliminator daycruiser race boat with every imaginable amenity.  Even had EVERY piece of hardware gold anodized. The sale came to thousands of dollars, like double the original price.

The owner, asks how he would like to pay for the boat, and needed a deposit, and my friend busts out a huge wad of cash, and asks if this will work. The salesman was sent packing.

The owner and I became close friends, and still are till this day.

Sorry for the long story, but I had fun reminiscing.. :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline fencerowphil (Phil L.)

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1142
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Dublin, Ga.
  • Gender: Male
  • LIKE CUTTIN' LONG! 30FT!
Re: Why should I NOT buy a TimberKing ?
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2006, 05:50:35 pm »
As some of you have already noticed,   :P
I work on pianos for the "bread-and-butter" of my living.
The static torture of sitting and pounding pianos all day is
profitable, but you need a contrasting activity for the sake
of your mind and your body.

Back in my early days in the piano trade I was a salesman...
or,  at least I tried.  Of course I went to the training -
fine training designed by IBM, customized for an American piano
manufacturer that some of you would have heard of.
At that time,  two Japanese companies were beginning to
eat American companies' lunch, so to speak.  This was 1976.

To make a long story short,   as a young saleman (before I
was a technician and restorer) I was taught certain things to use
as sales points and to use to overcome objections and to beat what
the sales guys call "perceived drawbacks."  Guess what?
Much of those points were, shall we say,  anything from exaggerations
to downright stupidity.   Guess what again!  Since the sales guys teaching
the other guys to sell were not technical, nor rebuilders and restorers,
THEY PROBABLY BELIEVED IT ALL, TOO!  :-\

Ah, the life and plight of the salesman!   After I firmly convinced myself that I was
not a salesman,  I went into making an honest living. (Couldn't resist.)

 :D
Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.