What About Vines?

[tcsmpsi]

Are they completely detrimental to trees?  Do they have any redeeming aspect?

I am sure that they have ecological benefit.  Indeed, grape vines produce grapes.

I have VINES.  I see some that are 3-4" diameter at the base. 

I have hardly any trees without a full compliment of vines.  Primarily, the trees are about 28-30 yr old SYP, but quite a few various hardwoods scattered about.  And, there is a notable amount of older growth. 

Certainly, I wish to keep the trees I can and thin for milling as time goes on.

Is there any benefit to keeping some vines?   Or, should I work on deleting them all?

[Michigan Mike]

  This is kind of second hand information. When I had a forester out to look at my small woodlot I asked him the same question. He wasent too concerned with the vines that were tight to the trunk of the tree [virgina creeper, poisen ivey] but grape vines and others that hung from the branches were somthing that he would prefer  to remove.

[beenthere]

Around here (southern WI) virginia creeper will choke a tree to death. I remove all vines with a death chop. Seems within 5 years, the VC vine will get big enough to start to degrade the crown of a tree.
Not sure about the South, but suspect they can't be good for a tree. Just may not kill it.

[Texas Ranger]

what mike said, and a series of light control burns will control the vines.

[crtreedude]

We have something called a stranglerfig down here. The birds love these wild figs, grab the fruits and take them to another tree to eat, and of course deposite the seeds in the top of the trees. These stranglers send down roots, like 100 feet or more to the ground and then start thicking up. Eventually, they completely encircle the tree and strangle it.

Often you will see what looks like a tree, but in reality, it is a bunch of these vines fused together. Another name for a stranglerfig is matapalo (tree killer)

[tcsmpsi]

Oh, they'll kill it alright, beenthere, cut a tree right into, they will.   

I've been working on getting many of them cut, been kinda wanting to get a feel if there is any notable benefit in allowing some to stay.  I don't personally see any benefit (treewise, anyhow).  Shame that it has pretty much come down to vineocide. 

[LOGDOG]

Hey TCSMPSI,

   Maybe after hunting season closes up there in WI you can invite BEENTHERE down for a visit with his shotgun. He'll make quick work of those vines.  :D Sorry BEENTHERE ...couldn't resist. ;D

LOGDOG

[SPIKER]

While grapes and a few other types of vines HANG from the branches upper stories, these tend to harm the tree by several ways, (added weight causes tree to lean / deform, ice rain & wind cause more damage to tree that is heavy with vines too)

my forester wanted all grapes cut that were in the forest story for production trees.   but leaving some in small areas for wild life is great.   birds squirls deep all like the grapes where they ahve already caused a bunch of damage to smaller confined area it can be left for wildlife habitate.     keeping the production areas clear is required for good stand management.

as someone stated tight clinging vines are ok BUT can cause some light problems and also may cause wood problems if the tree is heavy infected the wood can be damaged by the vine roots attashing as well as the loss of light/food/water.

I personally hate the vines as walking is harder around them, and woman is bad for Poisen Ivy. (It don't bug me other than hating the vines).   honeysuckel & some other types will also strangle the tree out.   ause sevier sapling damage and loss of nutrients for trees.

when indoupt I say remove them. 

don't try & pull out vines from tree tops, chances are you will cause MORE damage to the tree than letting the vines drop on their own.   (not to mention can be dangerous.)

also when you CUT the vine, cut out a section 3~5' worth, from groud level up to head + height. so you can visually SEE that the vines have been cut.   they will drop after a few years, make sure to go back & re-cut vines often to maintain them dead/cut.   I like to carry my machete with me for most vines as it cuts them well.  even thick grape vines, though I used a small 14" poulan chain saw for them initially as cutting 2~5" dia vines is a challange...   the saw I use is very light and was cheap.   I can carry it along through woods cutting.   also cut woods in a grid like pattern so as to not miss stuff that you want to remove.   besure to leave one~two areas with vines for critters.

MarkM

[beenthere]

 ;D
Change the name to Paladin.....

[tcsmpsi]

I ain't supplying the shells.  Well, maybe I would supply the first case.

Last several weekends, it has been the ongoing chore for the yet at home male teenage recycling plant to cut vines.  Low pressure, virtual job.   :D

I am not real happy about losing so many muscadines, but then, there way more than I had time and opportunity to process  (though I do manage to personally recycle many pounds of them every year).  ;D

[PineNut]

Have a lot of problem with Wisteria here in MS.  Looks pretty in early spring but is bad on trees. Small vines get a spray treatment and the larger ones (2 to 4 inches) get cut off and the stumps get a treatment.  I agree about cutting out a section so you can see where you have been cutting.

[tcsmpsi]

Over the years, I've always had to cut a few vines here and there (just to walk through some areas), and have always cut the vines up as far as safely possible, more to be able to get around than anything else. 

Now, I'm having to take a serious view of vines throughout the property, now that trees, individually and collectively, are of a more notable concern.  Whereas, the natural environment of the property was more of a priority in the past.

I will probably be leaving some grape vines here and there, but otherwise, and from input here, will be giving more carte blanch to the vine cutting process.  There are a few trees which the vines have already cut tops out of.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, to maintain and improve your wildlife habitat, leave a few "selected" grape vines for wildlife. Leave about 1-4/acre that are not really affecting good quality trees.

[tcsmpsi]

Yep.  Leaving some of those is most especially of importance since I am one of the muscadine eating wildlife.   ;D

[rebocardo]

From what I have seen is the vines themselves sometimes are not the problem. They harbor ants that can travel under the vines unmolested by the birds and build colonies in the trees without getting attacked.

[tcsmpsi]

The most immediate problem with the vines here (large 2-4" base) is their wrapping themselves around the tree and cutting off its existence.  They are tough and maintain a large diameter throughout growth.  Some of these vines grow phenomenonally.   As random example, one (2" diameter) I had cut about  2' from ground around mid April, by mid June had already sprouted 20-30 shoots 5-7' in length.

[pineywoods]

Is that why east Texas is known as "the big thicket" ?????

[tcsmpsi]

A significant part, along with yaupons, briars and thorntrees.  I think there's not but one grandfather yaupon root in all of The Big Thicket.   :D

[Larry]

I carry a little squirt spray bottle to treat the cut vines with herbicide.  Well worth the little extra work as you won't have to go back for maybe 5 years.

[WDH]

Ditto what Larry said.......

I carry a Formula 409 spray bottle, one with the little lever that you can use to squirt herbicide into a hatchet cut.  Just hack the vine and squirt in the herbicide in the cut.  Just take care not to get the herbicide on the host tree.  I have done hundreds this way.  Grapevine just needs a whiff of the herbicide, and it is a goner.

[maplewoman]

I agree with Larry too! In Australia that is how landcare groups remove mature vines. we call it cut stump. First you make the cut, then you spray poison on the stump. You can cut thru with a chainsaw or scratch the bark to expose the cambium layers with a wire brush .  So long as you apply the poison immediatley so the oxygen dose not have a chance to dry the sap flow it will be effective.
Foliar application is rediculous for vines, heat treatment may work.
" It always takes longer to clean up the mess than it did to create it."
The best thing is to know your weeds, how they grow and reproduce so you can be most effective in developing an erradication program.
"It won't happen overnight but it will happen! "
Thank-You for making an effort many would not bother.
We may loose the whole wet tropics rainforests to vines in Oz and the government will not act. Shame on them. Problem is it is everybodys problem.