Log Furniture - Dead Standing Trees vs. Green

[FrankLad]

My wife and I plan to be getting some log furniture beds, tables, chairs and other items around the first quarter of next year.  We are more than likely going to buy these items and have them shipped, and do the finishing ourselves but I did toy with the idea of building some of the pieces myself.

I found that dead-standing timber is used in most all log furniture construction.  I then started to consider that there is no shortage of dead-standing pines around my parents' property.  So I went out yesterday with the axe and chopped one of them down.  Ok - maybe that was hasty.  I hadn't considered HOW LONG they had to be dead-standing...and I didn't know of a way to check for termites first (this one had termites).

So I have two questions now:
- What's a good test for when a dead-standing tree is ready to come down?  How dry must it be and how do you tell?

- What about using green timber?  Ok, this opens up more issues... for one, it has to be dry before you apply any stain/lacquer/varnish so what's a good way of drying it?  Air dry?  How long?  (That's subjective due to thickness, so let's take a 5" thick round piece for instance.)

And here's something else I started wondering...

Would it be a good idea to drill out the center core of some green pieces?  Seems that this would lessen checking (since checking occurs with the outside drying & shrinking around the inside/heart - correct?), it should dry faster, and also the piece should still be strong in most situations.  Does that make any sense?  It may be a silly idea but I wanted to throw it out there.

Looking forward to any feedback you guys can supply on this.  Thanks!

[solodan]

I make a fair amount of log furniture, some from standing dead some from dead fall, some from recently felled green trees. All of it works well, all of it has a different look.
You could build a solar kiln to dry some stuff out, or air dry it. I prefer to use dead fall that sits on dry rocky ridges, or lava caps. The wood gets very dry and is rarely rotten. However, it is usually severly checked, but, IMHO that is what adds rustic character. ??? Often I use green logs, and just get the surface dry before I sand and finish it. I usually wash anything green with mineral spirits, as it tends to dry the surface much quicker. I have heard of using anifreeze to dry the surface and stabalize the wood. As far as finish, I would personally never use any water based finishes. Oil based finishes allow the wood to breath better. By making it yourself you will save alot of money, as the true natural log furniture is usually very expensive. Lots of companies offer milled poles and put together what they call log furniture. I think you will also get a better respect for the trade, as each piece is different, and you will have to work with non semetrical lumber. Have fun.

[FrankLad]

Excellent feedback, Solodan!  Thank you very much!  No rocky areas here in southern Mississippi...and the humidity doesn't really help the dead-fallen trees.  Seems like green may be the way to go.  That solar kiln seems like it would be pretty basic, but do you have any tips on it?  Materials used, etc?

and you will have to work with non semetrical lumber

That's another thing I've been thinking about.  Seems as though scribe rule is the only way to go with irregular pieces but...I can't find much at all about it on the web, besides the fact that you "use a plumb bob and pencil".    I'd appreciate any explanations you can offer on that!

[FrankLad]

I haven't digested it all but this seems like a nice solar kiln plan:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Processing_Trees_to_Lumber.html

[Don P]

There was a log home company back in the last century that bored out the center of their logs to speed drying and reduce checking, sounds like a good idea, I never heard more.
Drew Langsner (?) was a green furniture builder that wrote books and held classes in Marshall, NC

Lee Valley tools has tennon cutters for drills and several rustic furniture books if I remember right. I bought a 1" plug cutter recently that can make a 3" deep plug, or for that matter it could make a 3" long tennon the way I see it, it was $18, alot cheaper than most tennon cutters I've seen.

[solodan]

That's another thing I've been thinking about. Seems as though scribe rule is the only way to go with irregular pieces but...I can't find much at all about it on the web, besides the fact that you "use a plumb bob and pencil".

I usually don't scribe my furniture, I usuallly make a mortise and tenon. I usually use the Log Man tenon maker that Bailey's sells. I like it because it gives  more  of a rustic connection then the tenon cutters that look like a pencil sharpener. One thing I really dislike about alot of log furniture is very rustic looking and bent branches and then a perfect machined tennon on the end : sometimes I will sand my tenons a bit to make it flow better and look more natural. Sometimes I do cut a tenon with a hole saw and then I cut the collar off with a hand saw. Then I scribe the shoulder and sand the edge of the shoulder till the two pieces meet up nicely. I like to use a v- notch saddle on parts that intersect at a right angle. it makes for anice tight fit. I prefer to do this freehand with a tape and a pencil. I have some photos in my gallery that may give you some ideas.

[Raphael]

and you will have to work with non semetrical lumber

That's another thing I've been thinking about.  Seems as though scribe rule is the only way to go with irregular pieces but...I can't find much at all about it on the web, besides the fact that you "use a plumb bob and pencil".    I'd appreciate any explanations you can offer on that!

 French scribe rule uses a plumb bob and pencil, it works well for irregular squared timbers.  Scribing round to round is a bit more complex and usually includes snapping reference lines 90 degrees length wise on the piece to maintain proper orientation...  Most Log furniture I've seen isn't truly scribed in the sense that pieces fit curve to curve rather they are tapered to their tennons such that only the tennon or it's shoulder makes contact which makes it a simple matter of getting your end of tennon to end of tennon or shoulder to shoulder distance correct and your mortices centered and at the correct height.

 The short story on scribing is you align the members going one direction in a plane (eg: the posts in a wall) in their proper orientation to each other.  Often done by blocking them (or their center lines) level above a full sized representation on the shop floor or up on saw horses in the yard for bigger pieces.  Then you block the intersecting members with each centerline the same height above the center of the first.  In this configuration the string of a plumb bob can act as your guide finding the points of intersection or a bubble scribe can be used.
 A level can also be used for the reference instead of the plumb bob both vertically and horizantally by setting up the proper off sets.  My "timber framing" experience actually started with what I now refer to as butt scribing (scribing by the seat of my pants ;) ) raw cedar for a landscape architect.  He was pretty good drawing pictures and leaving the construction details up to me.

[FrankLad]

DonP:  I'm gonna see what I can find on Drew Langsner.  Thanks for the tip!

solodan:  Re:  Bailey's Log Man - is this the one you  have: http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/1868?product_sku=16500?

What's the biggest pieces you've used on it?  Can it handle 6" and larger stuff (ie. beds, etc)?

raphael:  Thank you for the description on scribing!  I'll re-read that a few times and hopefully it will sink in. 

[solodan]

Yes, that is the one I have. The largest guide is 2 3/4" so that is a good tennon for a piece about 4" or so. You could easily taper any piece down if it does not fit into the guide. Often on the big sticks you'll see a tennon cut with a hole saw, and then the collar cut off. This propduces a square edge shoulder, which can either be tapered, or scribe fitted. The only problem with the hole saw method is that you can only make you're tennon as long as the saw is deep. This is also true for a tapered tenon cutter that goes on a drill. With the Log Man you can make tenons as long as you want, so it is very possible to make through tenons.

[metalspinner]

I've seen a hand held power planer used before to make tenons on logs.  The log was held between centers and the planer was on a pivot.  As the log was turning, by hand crank I think, the planer was simply pushed down over the end to make the tenon.  The blades on my planer are 4", maybe.  That is plenty long for most things.  This may have been an article in American Woodworker a couple years back. I will flip through the stack to see if I can find it.

[FrankLad]

As we are going to be building a limited number of items, what is the bare-minumum I would need if I were to approach this by hand?

Shaving horse and drawknife?

[Stephen1]

solodan, I was looking at your photo's and like the look of the finnish on your furniture. What did you use? I have seen table tops with a thick shinny finnish any ideas what this is. Your the 1st person I have heard from that has used the log man tennon maker. I have been thinking of buying one as I have to make some railings for my porch, and I also have some orders for some small tables to go with my benches. Do you have all the guides. Will I need the black guide to make railings?

Franklad sorry to steal your thread. I would think that you will also need a drill and bits of some type if you are going to make anything with round tennons.  If you go with square tennons a good chisel and hammer and your all set to go.

[Raphael]

handsaw and hatchet.

[FrankLad]

metalspinner:  Looks like there are many ways to go about it.  Hadn't heard of that one.  Thanks for the info!

stephen:  Chisel and hammer?  Then I'm good to go!    Well...almost.  Still have to find some dry timber...or just go ahead and use green.  I worry about how it will act over time as it dries, though.

Also, I would like to see about getting a hatchet as Raphael mentions.

Raphael:  Which manufacturer do you recommend here?

[Raphael]

Also, I would like to see about getting a hatchet as Raphael mentions.

Raphael:  Which manufacturer do you recommend here?

I suspect the best person to ask about axes is Northern Hewer on the Ask The Experts board.
  I really like the look and philosophy of Gransfors Bruks but have yet to pony up the $$$.
What I use most is an old coopers adze and something like the Gransfors Bruks carpenters axe w/ a ~20" handle...  This changes periodically as I have a small collection of old axe & hatchet heads that have accumulated over the last 20yrs of buying $5-15 barrels of old tools to get that one item.

[FrankLad]

I have been looking at some of the Gransfors in the latest Lee Valley catalog.  I respect the craftsmanship that goes into them but I don't think I necessarily need anything quite that expensive at this point so I'll hunt around for something cheaper, even if it's already beat up.

I assume 1 or 1.5 LB head would be sufficient.    ?

[Raphael]

Somewhere in the 1.5lb area should be good, it's really a matter of what feels right to you.
You want an axe that hasn't been used as a hammer to the point it's developed a lip on the poll, a lip tends to scar up areas adjacent to where you are working.  Otherwise a flea market find is usually just as good as buying something new.

[solodan]

solodan, I was looking at your photo's and like the look of the finnish on your furniture. What did you use? I have seen table tops with a thick shinny finnish any ideas what this is.

Stephen1,
I use oil stains, and oil based poly urethane. I sand  down to about 400 grit between coats, but only on the flat surface stuff. The natural edges, I sand to 220. After my final coat dries, I buff everything with 1500 grit and mineral oil/ mineral spirits. This will take the sheen down a step, but leaves a mirror like finish. I do have all the guides, and I think that the black guide is money well spent. I would also suggest buying the forsner bits Bailey's sells, they are cheap, but will work and save you a ton of money. A 2-3/4" forsner bit at my local hardware store was about $100
Are you planning on putting a finish on the railing?  I like using Penefin on outdoor stuff, and if you put a clear top coat on, use an oil based spar varnish.

[jpgreen]

You have any pics of your latest work Dan?..  8)

We're gonna be in Reno for Thanksgiving. Maybe the snow may cooporate, and we can swing by and see ya.. 

[solodan]

yeah, I just put some pics in my gallery. I finished up three mantels and a table this week, and I have two more mantels to finish tomorrow, and one to finish at the begining of next week. Also need to finish up two large signs for the ski area, but no snow on the ground, ??? and very little in the high country. The pass already closed, but it opened up again. So maybe you guys will be able to get down my way.

[FrankLad]

Well, we took a trip out to our land this past weekend to do some tree scouting.  One of our favorite trees on the property - our Turkey Pine (aka Spruce Pine)  had died a couple weeks back (Not long after the septic tank and 280FT of field drain were installed, so we assume root damage was the cause)  so we wanted to use it for something.  We went ahead and dropped the tree and cut it into 6ft and larger sections.

Also there was a Red Oak that had the top broken out after the storm.  It was pretty butchered and it would be awfully close to our future deck so we dropped that one as well.  With it, we cut sections out of the trunk for barstools, and we cut some of the smaller limbs to use for legs and braces.

So that was one of my projects this weekend - to make a 3-legged barstool.

Here are the main tools I used:

- Antique drawknife
- Cheap ($20+) hatchet purchased from local hardware store and sharpened w/ file
- 1" Chisel
- Dewalt DW130 drill and 1-1/8" bit

I don't yet have a shaving horse (planning to make a simple one based on some plans in a Foxfire book) so I had to jerry-rig something to keep the wood in place while I shaved off the bark.

That old drawknife worked very well, and I was able to shave the legs very quickly.  The larger section for the seat part took a bit longer due to the deeper ridges in the bark.

I then proceeded to cut the tenons using the hatchet.  This worked a lot better than I expected, and it went pretty quickly after I did the first one.  I cut the tenons for the legs square, and the ones for the braces round.

On the underside of the seat part, I marked my three leg locations and drilled holes with a 1-1/8" bit.  Then I placed the legs over those holes and and traced around the square tenons with a pencil.  Next, I cut out the square mortises with a chisel.

Once the legs were all set in place, I started cutting the round tenons on the braces.  I cut them round because they were small and I could simply drill the mortises in the legs.

The last step will be to level the legs.  I'll go about this by setting the chair upside-down on a level surface and using a line-level between each leg to get the angle and amount that has to be sawed off the leg bottoms.

Oh, and the detail I left out about how I determined where to cut and how much to cut...well, I just held them against each other and made pencil marks.  Maybe not the most scientific approach but it seems to work. 

Pictures forthcoming...

[beenthere]

FrankLad
Sounds like some good progress. Have you planned where the radial check is gonna be on the seat?  If not, you might want to make a saw kerf where you want it, rather than have it happen randomly.
If in the wrong spot, the comfort of the sittee might be comprimised.  ;D

[solodan]

Oh, and the detail I left out about how I determined where to cut and how much to cut...well, I just held them against each other and made pencil marks. Maybe not the most scientific approach but it seems to work.

I  think that the most accurate tool you can use in building log furniture is your eyes.

[FrankLad]

beenthere: Have you planned where the radial check is gonna be on the seat?  If not, you might want to make a saw kerf where you want it, rather than have it happen randomly.
If in the wrong spot, the comfort of the sittee might be comprimised.

Hrm..............................  Good point you bring up there.    Something I had NOT thought about at all.  HA HA!  I'm sure glad you mentioned this, though.  How would you recommend this be handled?  Not sure where would be the best place to make the mark.

solodan: I  think that the most accurate tool you can use in building log furniture is your eyes.

It's reassuring to hear that because I have a tendency to make things out to be more difficult than they really are.

[beenthere]

You don't want it through one of the leg holes, for sure. So one of three places remain
-- toward the back
-- toward the front
-- to either side, depending on the orientation of the three legs.

The leg holes already may dictate where the crack (s) will show up when some drying takes place (fast in red oak due to the open pores), so making the kerf where you want it other than at the leg holes, may soon be a good idea.

For strength, I might consider placing a dowel at 90° to the crack (kerf) after it opens a bit, just to limit any disasters from a heavy heiny and some dire consequences  ;D (might be able to attribute it to 'heavy' drinkin  ).
Cross-sections, especially red oak, don't have a lot of strength (tension perpendicular to grain) as it is a wood that splits easily (not like some other woods like elm).

[FrankLad]

beenthere:  For strength, I might consider placing a dowel at 90° to the crack (kerf) after it opens a bit, just to limit any disasters from a heavy heiny and some dire consequences

Good suggestion!  I'll make that kerf mark shortly.


And now to switch gears a bit... I have questions on termites.  (Not sure if I should start a new topic for this.  Reckon not...)

I found some dead-standing pines that have some pretty features (after scraping the bark off) but they also have termites, as mentioned in an earlier post.

Some people around here have said that as long as the wood isn't completely "ate up" you can treat the termites and use the wood for furniture, with the designs left by termites being a good thing.

I then asked about ways to treat termites and two different people told me that if you remove their water supply (or rather, remove them from their water supply), then they'll eventually die out.  Not sure how you'd do this unless you set the wood up in the air some kind of way where they couldn't get back and forth to it.

But can't they get some water from the wood itself?

One person said that by simply working with the wood, I'd eventually be rid of them.

Is there a chemical treatment that can be used - and allow for safe handling/working of the wood later?

Bottom line is, I want to be sure that once I put this furniture in our house, there aren't any termites in there. 



P.S.  I read in the Foxfire book that it was believed termites never climb over 18".  Boy, it would be nice if that were true.  HA HA!

[Ianab]

My understanding of termites is that they nest in the ground because they need the moisture. They may chew tunnels a long way up inside a tree, post, house wall etc, but it's allways linked back to the nest in the moisture.

I think the 18" thing is the distance they will build their little mud tunnels looking for new wood. So build your house on 18" pilings and they wont bother climbing up into it. But if they find wood on the ground they will tunnel up inside it as far as they can.

Anyway, they cant live in dry wood that isn't connected to the ground, either directly or by their little tunnels. A solar kiln might be a good way to cook them and anything else thats hanging out in those logs?

Ian

[FrankLad]

Sounds like some good, solid info, Ianab!  Much appreciated!

I did take a look at some solar kiln plans when I first started this thread but kinda gave up as they don't look too easy to construct (or at least the plans I saw).

Perhaps I can experiment with simply removing the log pieces from the ground / water (and maybe combine that with citrus oil treatment, as I now read works well).

Thanks again for the advice!

[FrankLad]

Here's the picture:

[jpgreen]

That's a nice stool Frank.  Usually those rounds will split and crack in our dry climate.

The front leg looks like you borrowed it from a deer..  :D

[FrankLad]

jpgreen: The front leg looks like you borrowed it from a deer..

Ha ha!  Not the first time I've heard that! 

[solodan]

Well Frank, what can I say, I like it.

And it's true what they say, Great Minds think alike. 8)

Yours,




Mine,


;D ;D ;D

[solodan]

Pat, I cut mine about 4 inches and put them in the oven at 175 degrees for about 36 hours, they get checks, but nothing too severe. If one does check bad you will know before you put it together.

[jpgreen]

Hey- I'm takin' notes..  ;D That's a good tip Dan.

I'm gonna have a wood shop by next spring at this rate..  : ;D

[FrankLad]

Well Frank, what can I say, I like it.

And it's true what they say, Great Minds think alike. 8)

Yours,




Mine,


;D ;D ;D

Thanks, solodan!

I like your'n as well!  What type of wood did you use?

That green Red Oak has a certain smell to it, similar to a wet dog.  HA HA!

I got some nice pieces (thicker limbs, etc) from a pine tree I cut down recently.  It was killed after the storm and has been drying for a bit over a year.  I did a test tenon on one of the pieces, after easily scraping the bark off, and can't see any termite holes in the wood itself, but there are "etches" on the outside that some type of bug made between the bark and outer wood.  There were some termites down around the trunk area but I don't know if they were all the way up the tree.  The tree was around 30'+ tall, and the limbs were taken from the mid-upper area.  Seems like they would stick closer to the ground, if they have to travel back and forth.

I called the USDA folks with questions about ways to safely treat wood to be used in log furniture.  They put me in touch with the local termite expert who suggested an over-the-counter product called "33 Plus", which is supposed to be safe for working with the wood after it has been treated.  Anyone heard of this?

[solodan]

Frank, I used ponderosa for the seat of this one, and sugar pine for the legs. 

[jpgreen]

Water, borax, and a little clorox solution will knock em out, and kill any fungus or other bugs.

[Brad_S.]

I have seen table tops with a thick shinny finnish any ideas what this is.

That is probably an epoxy finish. Some of the better known brands are West System Epoxy and System 3 Epoxy. Here is a link that tells how to apply epoxy table tops.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/bartop.html

[Stephen1]

Thanks Brad, that is what I have been looking for, just have tp move to the states to get have it shipped. It is good reading though. I will look for a place up here.

[FrankLad]

Water, borax, and a little clorox solution will knock em out, and kill any fungus or other bugs.

I've read elsewhere on the net to use borax for ants.  Glad to know it works on termites as well.  How much of each part do you recommend in the mix?

[jpgreen]

I found that you can use boron and RV antifreeze (the non toxic pink stuff) as a treament and preventative for termites on buildings.

It was at 20 mule team boron/borax website I think.

As far as the solution above, I use it on milled lumber to kill fungus, mold, and any bugs.  Just mix up 2-3 cups of borax, and 1/2 cup or so of clorox in a five gallon bucket and brush it on with an rv brush or push broom.

I saved a whole bunch of lumber that had white fungus with it. Kills termites dead.  Also hit the boards with my pressure washer.  The ones I missed last year are ruined.

[solodan]

I found that you can use boron and RV antifreeze (the non toxic pink stuff) as a treament and preventative for termites on buildings.

I believe antifreeze is also supposed to stabalize the wood, as to why I don't know. ???

with the log furniture stuff, I usually wash my pieces with mineral spirits. For one it really dries the suface out for sanding and finishing, plus the solvents probably aid in killing any bugs near the surface. After my piece is sanded and finished, I usually use an orange oil based furniture polish . I think I use the one made by Pledge. It leaves a great finish, and from things I've read, orange oil kills carpenter ants on contact, so I would imagine it would be toxic to a number of other pests.

[FrankLad]

Thank you guys for the ideas and information!

[FrankLad]

Still working on building log furniture for our new house.  Gathered enough dead-standing stuff to build a bed.  Let it sit up above ground for a few weeks to treat termites.

Also, went ahead and ordered the Logman Tenon Maker from Baileys, along with the set of Forstner bits they sell for mortises to match the tenon sizes the Logman produces.  I wanted to do all of this with handsaw, hatchet, and chisels but in the end realized just how long it would take to do it that route, and that time with family is more important so getting it done quicker is better, and I could still square up the shoulders and such for a less "machined" look.

Anyhow, that's an update.  I wanted to bring this topic up again to ask about PEG (Polyethylene Glycol).

Have any of you guys used it in log furniture?  From what I gather you can soak a piece of newly-cut green wood in it and it replaces the water inside and "stabilizes" the wood so that it doesn't really shrink or warp.  Is that accurate?

Also, it appears to be very safe (even used as a laxative).

The stuff ain't cheap but if it allows me to use green wood effectively, then I may be really interested in it.

There's no shortage of dead-standing pine around here, but some of it doesn't seem satisfactory to me.  For instance, I cut some really nice looking thick sections that would make pretty bed posts, but after running the drawknife over them (bark has already fallen off - I do it to get that black silt/dirt looking stuff out) I hit these pockets of pulpy wood here and there.

I'm thinking of how much more flexibility I'd have with green wood - no worm/bug  holes, can perhaps do "skip-peeling" better, easier to work the wood, etc...

I just don't really comprehend how PEG works.  Does it fill the cells (or wherever the water is) and just kinda sit there?  Does it ever dry out?

[Tom]

PEG works, but you might find the cost of large pieces prohibitive.  It is a process that is usually used by turners for bowls, or other small projects.

"Soaking" is a conservative term in that the replacement of the water by the PEG, as I understand it, takes a considerable amount of time.

[FrankLad]

It sure is expensive.  I think you're right about using it on large pieces.

Tom: "Soaking" is a conservative term in that the replacement of the water by the PEG, as I understand it, takes a considerable amount of time.

Hrm.  So if time is still a factor, maybe I'm better off air-drying any newly cut pieces.

[Don P]

I talked to a rep from Fireside Log Homes in GA several
years ago . They use PEG on their logs in a pressure tank when very green. He sent me a micrograph that I've since lost of a slice through the cells of trated and untreated. The PEG mostly lodges within the cell wall but alot is in the cavity as well. The cell wall is what shrinks as the water between the fibers in the wall leaves. Their website might be worth a look.
One of the borates comes in a PEG solution, I think its Shellgard ???

[FrankLad]

Thanks, DonP!  Didn't see to many technical specifics on http://www.firesideloghomes.com, but I always enjoy checking out log and timber home sites.

[FrankLad]

The Logman tenon maker arrived yesterday, along with the set of Forstner bits.

Baileys-Online.com - Logman Tenon Maker

Baileys-Online.com - Forstner Bit Set

I wanted to share my first impressions and initial experience with you guys.  Reading about the Logman tenon maker here in the forums was what led me to purchase it to begin with (Thanks, Solodan!), so I think it's good to share experiences with others.

First of all, the thing was way easier than I thought it would be to install.  The unit itself was metal with nice pre-drilled holes.  I expected it to be plastic and require drilling of holes, due to what I've seen on the website and in a demo video.  There were several different holes in the metal unit to accomodate various routers, but it also came with the extras to ensure it works with any router:  Tracing paper, (which ould be used with a pencil on the bottom of your router, to get the screw hole locations) and a thick plastic base which can be screwed onto the bottom of the unit and flipped over.

Basically all I had to do was set the router on top of the unit, place the router bit (included in package) shaft up through the hole in the unit and into the collet of the router, which allowed me to rotate the router until I found a hole configuration in the base that lined up with the screw holes in the router, and put the screws in.

Next, I mounted the base to a sturdy sawhorse (made of 2x6 and 2x10 material - had to build almost 20 of them for the timber framers, so I had one laying around)

The last step was to add two bolts and nuts to the sides, used for locking the guides in place.  I then put in the 2" guide and secured it.

Full of excitement, I got a 3" (approx) diameter piece of pine from the stack, switched the router on, and went to town.  I was actually expecting something to not go quite right but it went as smooth as could be.  I held the piece of wood with my left hand and turned with my right hand.  In no time, I had a really nice looking shouldered tenon that looked just right - not too machined.  Of course, a 2" tenon on a 3" piece was just a test - nothing I'd actually use, so I decided to see just how fast I could put two pieces together.

I grabbed a smaller piece (2" or so) from the pile and put a 1" tenon on using a different guide (by the way, the Logman comes with 2 guides for making 4 different sizes of tenons, with an additional guide for 2-3/4" sold separately).  Then I took the 3" piece from earlier and, using the 1" Forstner, drilled a mortise.

I inserted the tenon into the mortise using a twisting motion.  I was surprised at just how snug of a fit the joint was.  ...and the whole operation took just a couple of minutes.

My wife is very excited about all of this too, since it means less of a wait to see new furniture pieces. 

So in conclusion, I highly recommend the Logman tenon maker (as well as the matching set of Forstner bits) for anyone interested in building their own log furniture.

...and you may want to pick up this book, co-authored by the inventor of the Logman:

Baileys-Online.com - BOOK - Build Your Own Log Furniture

Lots of info contained within, including the history and various tools, finishes, and 10 different projects (stool, log table, bed, etc.).  Although it mentions use of the Logman, it covers an array of other tools as well.

[jpgreen]

Good report Frank!

I want one of those puppies. Speaking of dead trees..

I've been savaging dead pines, some up to 30" that have been down for some time. It's remarkable how they stay in good condition for years.  One landed on some rocks, and I've been eyeing it for about 5 years, and finally took my little parbuckle rig in and bucked it up in 17' lengths.

From the stump was perfect, the next section on up was too with some sap wood rot.  The next section had no sap wood rot, but had a reddish kind of punkyness look at the end so I though it was bad.  I kept sawing it back in 16" increments to see if it would clear out, but it didn't.  At the last 8', I deceided the heck with it, I've been fooled before, so I took it home.

I'll be darned if that log was not punk at all, and infact was a red tinted pine with awsome figure.  I runied half of that log thinking it was bad..  :

It was either surgar pine or ponderosa. I picked up 12- 17' 22-30" in diameter in a few hours the past couple days with my little parbuckler for free.  All was just going to rot eventually.

[FrankLad]

jpgreen:  Sounds like a pretty good find there!

jpgreen: It's remarkable how they stay in good condition for years.

Down here, most all of the dead standing pines I have encoutered have termites or evidence of termites, and if one has been laying on the ground for a while, there's not much to be done with it.  Most of them seem ok structurally (at least for log furniture), with only a couple being discarded for having more pulp pockets than I'd like.

[Stephen1]

Frank
Thank-you for the report I have been wanting to purchase one to make my railings and some furniture. looks like I might drop the hint around the house here as it is close to Christmas. it looks better than a new sweater!! ;D

[FrankLad]

Ha ha!  Glad the report was helpful to you, Stephen!   

[pineywoods]

JP Green  re: salvaging dead pine

I cut a lot of dead pine.  The red streaks you found are caused by lightening. When lightening kills a pine, it almost always will have red streaks in the wood. Also the but cut will usually be hard as a rock. I've seen some beautiful furniture made from the streaked wood.

[Tom]

There's two kinds of red streaks in SYP.   One is caused by wounds.  I guess lightning could cause it.  It looks like streaks of fat lighter or sap that has crystallized in a longitudinally oriented streak.  Sometimes you find a crack running through the middle of the streak.

The other is a brilliant red stain.  I'm told it is one of the colors of blue stain fungus. If it is Blue Stain Fungus, it sure is pretty.  Blue Stain Fungus doesn't effect the strength of the wood, just the color, so, if you like the color, the wood should be OK.

[jpgreen]

Thanks for the pine info... 8)

I've seen the red stain, that's like the blue stain, but this is the streaking stuff and I've never seen it before.  It's awsome.

THere's still bout 15" of taper to the end out there, that I should go out and get.

[TexasTimbers]

There was a log home company back in the last century that bored out the center of their logs to speed drying and reduce checking,

I ran that idea past my wife one day coming back from Tennessee. I had never heard or read it before but I wondered aloud to her if drilling a hole right down the pith, about  1" - 2" depending on the size of the timber, wouldn't speed up the drying process.  I figured on long timbers you would have to afix one of those small computer cooling fans on the end to pull air through it.
I thought of all kinds of crazy eccentric stuff like running a steel rod in it after it was dry to help stiffen it, but that would probably offer about a zero increase in tension strength. I knew I could drill a hole no problem as I had fabricated a 12' drill extension for one of our members who needed to drill through a ERC post to run some ROMEX through. I also thought of injecting the hole with PU to keep bugs from using it as a hacienda etc.

Then, after I had opined on various brilliant ideas for several minutes,  she said something to the effect of "Well honey if it was great idea wouldn't they already be doing that stuff?"

And that's all it took to put the kabosh on that pipe dream. 

[solodan]

Pat I think the red  that you have is, what I call, and have heard it called around here, "red rot".  If it is the type of red that I am taking about, it has a red hue  and a soft edged cast to it.  Almost a swirling or wavy effect. It seems to only occur with pine logs that have been in contact with the soil, but the red is not the rotten part or even near it, it occurs in the bright heart wood, kind of like an oxidation. It almost looks as if the wood has been fumed, although I have never seen fumed pine. ??? I have seen it in both ponderosa and sugar pine,  but not in lodgepole. lodge pole grows in drier areas and rots a whole lot slower. In your area closer to the beach you have shore pine, which is just lodge pole that grows in very wet soil. I bet you can find some of that red in some shore pine.


FrankLad, I am glad you like the Logman tenon maker too, I have not pulled mine out for awhile, but you have motivated me to dust it off. Thanks

[Raphael]

I got a couple of those pretty red pine logs from an arborist friend.
I'd figured they were someones imported yard tree, just didn't know from where.
What other pines can show red rot?

[jpgreen]

I've seen two reds in pines.

The stuff I've milled in the past was actually more of a rubyish red color that stained just like blue. This last tree has a mohogany red for lack of a better descriptive term, that streaks and swirls, and the pine as a whole is not white, or yellow but more like a doug fir color.  Darn I wish I hadn't runied the other 8'.. :

The rest of the log may not be accessable til next spring, cause the rain has started in, and it's too muddy back there. As soon as it dries up or freezes, I gonna go get it..  8)

[4woody]

will i orderd my logman an the bits to

[4woody]

will  the bits came but not the jig so i jus made my jig works good