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Author Topic: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)  (Read 5319 times)

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Offline Part_Timer

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the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« on: October 21, 2006, 09:36:39 pm »
tcsmpsi

Here hare those pics of the mill I saw at the KY wood expo.  The blade does not set 90 degrees to the log.  It's at about 70 deg maybe.  The big spring in the top is a counterbalance for the power head and makes raising and lowering so easy it's not funny.

This mill will take a 40" log.

The guy that builds them is a heck of a nice guy and even let me give it a run for a bit.  When I was done he asked to run the Peterson so we went over and cut a small log up.  You should have seen the look on the the face of the Amish guys when they saw him running it.  Guess they didn't take him for  being mennonite and thought he was one of them.  :o :o ::)






Hope these help ya.
Peterson 8" ATS.
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Offline tcsmpsi

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 09:28:39 am »
Thanks Tom

What's up with the angled blade? 

What did you cut with it?  And, what did you think of the design?

Have you run the skillmill yet?

Give a moment and I'll see if I can think of a question.   ;D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Offline Part_Timer

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 12:02:32 pm »
The guy claims that it cuts smoother and the angle helps the blade pull the head through the log.  After running it I couldn't argue much. I liked it better than the last one I had.

We were cutting 2x12 ash 15' long.  I liked the design a lot.  the log loader worked well, the counterbalance for the power head was very nice.  The sizing scale was easy to read and well placed.  It pushed through the log with a minimal amount of effort.  I cut maybe 4 or 5 boards with it so I'd want to saw a bit more but I'd have to say for the money it is a good buy.  If I ever was to purchase another bandmill that would be the one.

No I haven't run the Skillmill yet.  Mine went to GA for the show down there and was damaged in route.   >:( >:( >:( I don't know where it got shipped from there.  I'll get a chance some day.  Right now I'm looking into a WPF frame for my ATS but it will be awhile.

How's your cutting going?  It won't stop raining here long enough to move the mill to the neighbors place. 

Peterson 8" ATS.
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Offline tcsmpsi

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2006, 01:28:32 pm »
(^^$%**!! rain %$#_)&@ RAIN, and then $*&^$#@&#!&  supposed to rain more.

I still don't have all the debris cleaned up that the flood left here at the shop, but the steps are fixed and clear...though the ramp is still a bit cluttered.   ;D

I knew the skillmill was broken, but thought/hoped they might have gotten that worked out for you. 

I reckon I'm still trying to picture the angled cut...how does it square?   

Just got a brand spanking new Tractor Supply here, and my wife and I actually went 'out on the town' Sat. evening.  Went and toured the new store. (yeah, that's pretty exciting evening out for us). :D
 Quite a bit of stuff that will help to manufacture some changes here and there for this and that.   

Got the posts and roofing for millshed last week and yesterday got hauled over, stacked and catagorized, along with other necessary material/moving.  And, to help keep a positive flow perpetuating around the hacienda, set the posts and framed the new front deck (floor being about 8' off the ground), filling in a void my wife had in seeing the 'picture'.   ;D

Hoping/working toward the next milling being in the shed. 

After the first week or so of deer season, some of the pressure will be off me and I can hopefully put a bit more time in on the shed/milling.  Customer just brought me in about 15# of hog/deer sausage a bit ago.  I guess he wants a 'priority' put on his stuff.  :D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Offline rvrdivr

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2006, 01:51:55 pm »
tcsmpsi, plant a garden! That's what I did and we haven't had any rain here in Florida since. :D

Offline Furby

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2006, 08:21:42 pm »
It doesn't cut 70 degrees off of the horizontal, but one band wheel is further ahead. When the blade first enters the end of the log, it doesn't hit it head on. It hits it on the corner.

Offline beenthere

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 08:50:46 pm »
A question about the angle of cut. Is it cutting into the grain, or somewhat away from the grain? 

The pics are a bit hard to see, but is the blade hitting the corner first and and dragging the sawdust out the log end (to me that would be away from the grain).  ???

south central Wisconsin
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Offline Part_Timer

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 09:00:17 pm »
Furby isn't that what I was thinking I thought I oughta thunk.

Beenthere  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Beats me I run a swinger.
Peterson 8" ATS.
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Offline Furby

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 09:05:45 pm »
I thunk you thought what ya thought you thunk!

BT, Yes out the log end, that way the first contact each tooth has with the log helps pull the carraige along the log.
We have at least one member with one of these, that could tell us more about them.

Offline Daren

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 10:39:17 pm »
, that way the first contact each tooth has with the log helps pull the carraige along the log.

Or drive it into a lagbolt  :D. I am not knocking the design, never seen it saw. A guy should always try to build a better mouse trap. I am speaking strickly from my experience with my little manual mill. I want to control the cut speed. I can "push" my little mill through a 24" cant as fast as it wants to go for the motor pretty easy, in my case a little 13 hp Honda (and I can listen to it to make sure I am getting good rpm/blade speed for a smooth cut) I don't get the advantage of the blade pulling the head, especially on hardwood, I would think there could be some blade dive/rise if it is digging and "following" the wood. I also think the longer the blade (since it is on a bias) is in the log the more friction on hardwood and sap on pine and such it would pick up. Why make a 20" cut on a 16" cant? Seems like extra blade ware to me. What are the advantages other than "ease" of the walk down the deck... that is the easy part. It is all the offloading and stacking that is the hard work.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline beenthere

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 10:55:30 pm »
Furby
Makes sense to me to have a bit of an angle. When one rips a board with a hand saw, it saws much better at an angle than when sawing straight across at 90.  Cutting direct across the end grain likely causes a lot of chatter, and shorter 'chips'. Give up some log width though.
Expect there may be other trade-offs, as there usually are.  :)

Daren
If the angle was 70, then the cut would only be 17" in a 16" cant.  About 56 would make a 20" cut in a 16" cant. 
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Daren

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2006, 06:15:10 am »
Daren
If the angle was 70, then the cut would only be 17" in a 16" cant.  About 56 would make a 20" cut in a 16" cant. 

I didn't do the math, Ok why make a 17" cut in a 16" cant.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline tcsmpsi

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2006, 07:44:53 am »
I had never considered that concept for a bandmill. 

 Could you tell any difference in the normal stress produced throughout the carriage/head?

DanG.  Now you got me wanting to run one of 'em through some good, hot, sticky, knotty pine.   ;D 

I would be especially curious to see/to know how the blade reacts with the guides with the pressure on the blade being at a bit of an angle.

I don't know so much if it is the 'blade pulling through' better, as it might be the cutting of more area with each 'stroke'.

rvrdivr,

I don't know...seems the gardens I've had were more adversely affected by too much rain.   :D
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Offline Furby

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 01:19:56 pm »
Well the guides would still be 90 degrees to the blade so the pressure should be the same as any bandmill.
What I see as a possble advantage is dried out ends on logs.
My blades take a heavy hit starting the cut. But this mill would start on a corner and pull outward just a bit rather then hitting the hardest part full on.

Offline tcsmpsi

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006, 01:49:50 pm »
Yes, the guides are 90 degrees to the blade, but the blade/guide is not square with the world.  The deck, log/cant, carriage base etc.

As the cut is made, by nature of angling in the first place, the pressure is not square to the blade/guides.

Which is also what I meant by the otherwise natural stress throughout the system.

Is it because that you have a power fed mill that you blades take a heavy hit starting the cut?
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Offline Haytrader

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2006, 08:15:41 pm »
I got me one of them Boardwalks.
Blades is at a 15 degree angle.
In soft wood (red cedar) it almost pulls itself through.
His selling point is the blade wont jump or dive when just a few teeth enter the log initially. When we use a hand saw we don't start with the blade parallel with the board surface, right?
Haytrader

Offline Furby

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2006, 08:20:20 pm »
Mine sure isn't power feed tcsmpsi! Unless ya count my legs! :D
What I was trying to say was that the blade dulls faster when cutting into the dried out end of a log straight on.
Even get sparks sometimes.

I really don't agree with your thoughts on the pressure, but since I can't explain what I'm thinking, I won't argue with you either. ;)

Offline Tom

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2006, 08:55:51 pm »
There are more mystifying designs associated with sawmills by manufacturers and users with enlightening ideas than Carter has little pills.  I won't argue the good or bad about the slanted blade other than, it seems to me that a design like that will have more teeth in the wood than one cutting straight across.  The log will look, to the blade, as if it is much wider than it really is.

I combat that entry shock by controlling the speed of the head.

Furby is correct to mention the hardness of the end of the log.  Dry wood is harder than green wood.  The end of the log dries first, so it is harder.  It can be real hard and cause undue wear on the tooth of the blade. :)
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Offline Daren

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2006, 10:34:32 pm »
it seems to me that a design like that will have more teeth in the wood than one cutting straight across.  The log will look, to the blade, as if it is much wider than it really is.

Yea, what I said   :D "Daren"

Furby is correct to mention the hardness of the end of the log.  Dry wood is harder than green wood.  The end of the log dries first, so it is harder.  It can be real hard and cause undue wear on the tooth of the blade. :)

You are still cutting the whole log, not matter what angle you come at it. I ease into the end of the log, cause we all know it is harder. I am not knocking this guys mill, I have never built one. I am just wondering what the advantages of the angle are, it has still not been spelled out for me. I see more disadvantages. Maybe the rest of the mill is top notch, I don't know.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline pigman

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2006, 10:45:55 pm »
I don't know anything about Board walk sawmills, but it is good to see Haytrader back after a long absence. 8) He must of taken a load of hay to asy and just got back. ;)
Bob
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Offline solodan

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2006, 11:12:39 pm »
The angled cut makes sense to me after using an Alaskan and a mini mill. Granberg recommends setting up the mini mill with a 9 degree angle. With a mini mill you have no way to push the bar tip through the cut, so the angle really helps it pull through. I imagine the band blade would  pull itself through pretty well too. Also a slight angle when ripping with a chain saw tends to leave the smoothest cut, So maybe their on to something. ???

Offline Tom

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2006, 11:21:32 pm »
Chains are originally created to crosscut.  They take out a chip of wood.

These bands are designed to rip.  When you cut from the side of a log, you will notice that the band waves as it passes through soft and then hard rings.

The gullets are built to expell small curls of wood that have "chiseled" from the kerf.  Long strips of wood (excelsior) will bind up band blades and clog up the sawdust chutes.

Bands will cut cross grain but not real good.  I would think that slanting the band  would expose it to those things that a ripping band isn't prepared to handle.

Just an opinion.  I'd like to see the process scientifically proven. :)

Daren, there you go again.  Making me think I'm being so original.  :D :D
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Offline tcsmpsi

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2006, 07:29:32 am »
Anyhow, Tom (part_timer), thanks for getting the pictures up.  I tried to enhance a couple of them to get a better look at the head lowering/raising...I weren't too successful.  (too much I don't know about this thing)  ;D

I very much appreciate you taking the time and the consideration.   ;)


It would seem that Woodmizer's cantilever design would be quite well adapted to the angled blade design.  I would even not be surprised had the concept not ran across their tables at some time or another.

Furby,

I really didn't know what type mill you have, and was sincere in not knowing why your blade was taking a heavy hit going into the cut. 
Mine is the only bandmill I've ever run or ever seen run.  I had never considered putting a stacked/stored log onto the mill before cutting the butt ends off.  (they just never looked like anything I would want to put my bandblade into)
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Offline Part_Timer

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2006, 08:25:45 am »
I'll try and send full sized pictures to you on the regular email.  The raise and lower is so sweet.  I could take one finger and spin the wheel to raise the power head.  If you lifted the lever the head just sort of floated down.

I just thought it was an interesting concept.  I hadn't seen the likes of it before.  Hopefully Haytrader will have some better pictures and some insite as to how it works and why he went that way.
Peterson 8" ATS.
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Offline Furby

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Re: the pics I promised tcsmpsi (board walk mill)
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2006, 10:00:47 pm »
No problem tcsmpsi, I wasn't taking shots at you, just being a smart ash. ::)
I don't like cutting an ugly end either, but when it's a log that has already be bucked as short as I can go........
Or I'm just to lazy to get the chainsaw out for one log, anything goes. ;D

Part Timer, My Norwood has the same type of counter balance. It can be fine tuned so that it goes up a little easier, or down a little easier, by adjusting the spring. It is nice considering it's a manual mill! 8)