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Author Topic: What I've been up to...  (Read 6226 times)

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Offline rvrdivr

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What I've been up to...
« on: October 20, 2006, 06:28:49 pm »
It's been a while since I've tried to tackle this photo up-load thing, but I think I finally figured it out. I have a few pics I wanted to share with y'all and show you what I've been up to.



This summer I applied for permits with the DEP to remove pre-cut submerged timber from Florida rivers. These logs are also called "deadheads". My permits are in the upper Suwannee River in North Central Florida. The Picture above shows ten pine logs I found in one hole. These logs are old growth heart pine that were cut down over 100 years ago. All these logs have a very tight growth pattern usually having 20 to 30 growth rings per inch.



The picture above shows all the logs I've gotten so far. This is all since the first week of september when my permits were official. Noctice the axe cut ends on most of the logs.

I will be cutting these soon and will post more pictures of what they look like on the inside.



Offline Mr Mom

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 07:31:51 pm »
     rvrdivr...Did you see any gators??? Great pictures cant wait to see inside.





     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 08:00:03 pm »

 Nice going, Brian. Must be nice being able to SEE them logs on the bottom.  ::) ;D :D
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Offline Left Coast Chris

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 09:44:45 pm »
Some real valuable timber.  Whatcha planning to do with the lumber?  floors, molding, decrative?
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 09:50:37 pm »
Friend of mine got a bunch of the same stuff out of the ouachita river in north louisiana. Made up some real nice tongue and groove flooring. He recommends cutting off about a foot off each end of the log before sawing.  Thats where the iron spikes are..
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Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2006, 08:18:07 am »
Some of this wood is going into my house as flooring and maybe cabinets. The rest will be sold after I cut it up.
As you can see in the picture the water is very clear right now. Just down river I spotted two logs from the boat in about five feet of water.
Last week while drift diving I saw my first gator while under water. He was only about five feet long and I think I scared the poor thing :D Just after that I encountered a school of about 100 Jack Cervalle about 1 1/2 feet long. Wheres my underwater video camera when I need it! Jacks are a salt water fish and I was about 90 miles from the gulf when I saw them.

Offline bad_boards

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2006, 08:53:25 am »
what  was a school of jacks doing that far into fresh water, thats most odd isnt it

Offline sawguy21

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2006, 08:56:00 am »
What are you using to pull them out?
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Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2006, 09:19:47 am »
bad_boards, that is odd. It is commen to see mullet and Sturgeon but not Jacks ???

The logs are loaded just as you would a boat. My 14 foot boat has 4 hand winches, one on each corner. I'll strap a log or logs depending on size to the side of the boat and run it right onto the trailer. From there I'll winch them the rest of the way up. Takes minutes to do. After I get it out I'll cut to fit on the 20 foot trailer as I did this log. I estimate ten pounds per BF. This one log had 372bf International scale.
As you can see theres no problem unloading them :)



Offline Kelvin

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2006, 09:34:14 am »
Here in michigan the state decided they were their logs, so if you reclaim them you owe the state 1/2 the proceeds as far as i understand.  There are some companies doing it full time in Lake superior and other great lakes.  Does florida rob and discourage people in the same way?

Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 09:56:53 am »
Florida is not to bad but I heard Georgia wants $75,000 good for only 5 miles of river. At this time nobody is deadheading in GA.
In Florida a permit is $500. each, for 20 miles of river and is good for five years. You can have as many permits as you wish but to use them, You need a Users Agreement which is $5500. and is only good for one year.
Some of the other guys sell their logs for two dollars a BF. Though I'm not selling logs, I figure as $2.00bf and to date I have paid for all my expences and more if I sold them. I won't see a return until next summer but I know it is a worth while investment. Not to mention all the fun I'm having out on the rvr ;) :D :D

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 01:09:25 pm »

 Whatcha using for a ramp ??

  That's where our problems were, not being allowed to use Public Ramps.
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Offline JCam

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2006, 12:58:06 am »
This post got my interest. I was always told the logs in the rivers belonged to the owners of the logging companies who cut them. As a boy I knew of two people who salvaged logs on the Indian and Manistique rivers in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. One was an uncle who paid the owner, a man in Germfask, for the ones he brought up. Another guy was given a cease and desist order along with a bill. He was dragging them out of the river behind his house.  When he took them in to the mill they saw the marks, no bill of sale, busted.
Some pictures:


8? lying in the sun on a bend in the Indian, north of Manistique.

Three more where the Indian comes into the Manistique.

I think it's a Weston Lumber Company log cut sometime before 1910.

These are the circle X marks and I believe they're Weston, could be Chicago Lumber, struck in three places on the end of the log.

These pilons in the Manistique were used to anchor the sorting booms to the shore. When a companies logs were to go into the mill they were pushed out into the righthand side of the river to float down to the mill. The mill was built across, bridging, the river about a mile down stream from where this picture was taken.

So anyway, here's what I found when I looked up what the law says in Michigan...

MDNR Law Enforcement Division
PUBLIC RIGHTS ON MICHIGAN WATERS

S. Salvage of Submerged Logs

Many procedural steps are required before one may legally recover a submerged log from a lake or stream MCL 426.101; MSA 18.241 requires logging companies to mark their logs and to register that mark in the County Clerk’s office.

Logs that have sunk in streams and lakes are legally the property of the owner of the log mark or of his or her heirs. To obtain legal rights to the logs, one must purchase the “mark” or ask the court to declare them abandoned.

Here's the complete text: http://ci.bangor.mi.us/blackriver/Riparian%20Rights%20MDNR%20Document.pdf

The salvage law, Kelvin refers to, seems to only apply to abandoned and unmarked logs.

Part 326, Great Lakes Submerged Logs Recovery, of the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, 1994 PA 451, as amended became effective on July 10, 2000 and regulates, by a permitting process, the recovery of logs from the Great Lakes.

11. The administration of this Part 326 will not specifically address any historical log ownership issues due to discernable log marks on particular logs.

Here's the complete text: http://www.michigan.gov/deq/1,1607,7-135-3313_3677_3703-10897--,00.html

From what I read at these two sites, I wouldn't think salvaging river logs is a cut and dried proposition and you might run into trouble if you miss an old ownership mark.
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Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006, 11:39:16 am »
FDHer, I had to go in front of the Suwannee County and the City of Branford's Commissioners to ask permission. I have a contract with both good for a year to use their public boat ramps. 

To correct something I said earlier, Gorgia requires $10,000 per 2 miles of river. It was also brough up that they wanted a compensation of $1.28 per BF. I'm not sure if there doing that or not.

I don't think there are to many branded logs in the area I'm in. I haven't found any yet but if I do, I'm to contact the DEP which contacts the County's Sheriff's office which contacts the brand owner and if he or she can prove that the brands belong to him either by family lineage or by lease/purchase records, then they have the right to retrieve the log from me.


Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2006, 11:48:22 am »
I saw a treasure hunting show years back of some guys who had a log from one of the great lakes. When they opened it up, it was birds eye maple. They said it was worth $40,000! 8)
Makes you think...don't it ;) :D :D

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2006, 01:00:26 pm »

 I know of 2 cypress logs that would bring AT LEAST $10,000.00.  We couldn't get access to one of them, and didn't get the second one pulled loose  ::) ::)

  OUR logs are really deep in the sandy bottom.
  Brian have you ran across Fred, Mike and Curt ??  They were logging in your general area. They were talking about going to North Carolina.  ::)
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-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2006, 01:44:53 pm »
Harold, I haven't seen those guys in a long while. Saw Shawn N. and met a new guy named Ed. I think Ed wants to get a mill and start sawing. I told him I'd be happy to help get him started. The first thing you need to do is become a member on the Forestry Forum! ;D

I'm sure your permits are still active...I'm wondering if my UA is tranferable? We don't find CYP in the upper Suwannee. Years ago while diving the lower end I remember seeing some huge CYP logs some 4 feet in diameter. That area is called a perserve and is off limits to deadheading.  :(

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2006, 01:53:55 pm »

 Might contact Sara and ask her. My stuff expired in June, except the Oklawaha. That goes until next year sometime. You might work on "The Monument". ::) :D :D

  Several guys said they were gonna get it.  ::) ::) ::)  Never found that underwater chainsaw with the 3'+ bar.  ::) :D :D :D

  As tough as it was, I miss the river. Lived around water my whole life, except for 12 years in Arkyland.

  I told Ed to contact you. He MIGHT dive in that clear water and HEP ya. Won't know how to act seeing the bottom and all.  ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
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   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline rvrdivr

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2006, 02:06:05 pm »
The monument aye? How long is this thingy? I can get a barge with a strong winch from a friend if need be. If we can get it to the surface I'll cut it with my husky. The trick to cutting something in the water is to loosen the chain a bit. Oh, and don't stand behind it or you'll get soaked! :D

If Ed helps, I'll need to find a big ole 12 foot reptile just to make him feel at home. We could also blind fold him if he'd feel more comfortable :D

I'll call Sara and see what the deal is with that UA.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2006, 02:10:49 pm »

 Monument IS sticking outta the water, about 18' of it, anyways. Other 15' or so is what's stuck. It's nearly 4' across where it goes into the sand. Got info on a guy that will but the 12 X 12 or 16 X 16 beam, if it's solid, and it should be. He paid $5000.00 for Pine Heart logs that would saw 16 X 16 X 30'. If it would make 24 X 24, you could retaar.  ;) ;D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline thecfarm

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Re: What I've been up to...
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 04:20:29 pm »
Very interestering topic.Those pilons reminded me of the Kennebec river by the Gardner and Randoph.They are still there.The last river drive was in 1976.Most of the talk around here are the paper companies wood drives.Mostly pulp wood.
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